Honoring Questionable Parental Wishes In Old Age

[Julia_Mae]

I think it is very good for Catholics to consult with their pastors about this before the time comes. The truth is that the temptation for families, religious or not, is often to do far more than morality requires or than the patient ever wanted, because guilt or an unwillingness to let go drives where there is an information vaccuum on the moral nature of the choices. I say this based on what hospital workers tell me about their own end-of-life arrangements, and that includes physicians who are adamantly pro-life. They want people to know what they think, not to guess. There is enough guesswork required as it is, simply by the true nature these choices usually have.

I agree.

 

[Cat]

We disagree. Your assumption that your friend would have survived to live a much longer life is just that, an assumption. Her death was easily a gift of God with the least amount of suffering. Death is be neither friend nor enemy, just a door.

According to the Bible, death is not a gift of God. It is a curse that came into this world as a result of human sin. (I Corinthians 15).

We do not have to fear death because Jesus has conquered death, although as humans, most of us dread death–even Jesus didn’t want to die and prayed that God might remove that “cup” from Him if it was His Will.

But we are not to welcome death as a friend, either. God “allows” humans to die so that they don’t have to live forever in weakness and pain. But God also allows and encourages humans to discover ways to delay death and allow more life here on this earth. An example of such a discovery is antibiotics–until this discovery, many people died of routine infections like Strep throat and urinary tract infections and even Staph infections of cuts on the finger. But now these people usually survive with little or no ill effects.

You may (or may not) be correct about my friend. Medically speaking, she should have recovered from her infection (with antibx) and lived as long as her remission lasted. But obviously, medicine/science does not always behave the way we expect. People live who should have died, and people die who should have lived.

 

[Julia_Mae]

According to the Bible, death is not a gift of God. It is a curse that came into this world as a result of human sin. (I Corinthians 15).

Did you mean 26?

• The last enemy to be destroyed is death,

This is 15:

Then we are also false witnesses to God, because we testified against God that he raised Christ, whom he did not raise if in fact the dead are not raised

Here is something Paul also said:

2 Corinthians 5:6-8 So we are always of good courage. We know that while we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord, for we walk by faith, not by sight. Yes, we are of good courage, and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord.

Jesus said:

John 11:23-26 Jesus said to her, “Your brother will rise again.” Martha said to him, “I know that he will rise again in the resurrection on the last day.” Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live, and everyone who lives and believes in me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

We just get up and leave.

It’s a good thing.

 

[ReasonBeing]

Excuse me? I understand the difference. I never looked down on my grandmother. But when she was sobbing because she couldn’t feed herself, control her bowels, or speak a full sentence much less do anything that she loved I understood why. I knew why she didn’t want people to see her, I knew that she felt humiliated. Morally acceptable or not I knew why she wanted to just die and why she would have done anything to do so had she been able.

That was a hard thing for me to understand at 16, and it was devastating to witness. But now that I’m older I understand that she had lived a full life, had fallen in love, gotten married, raised children, been blessed with grandchildren, traveled, and just lived her life to the fullest. There was no reason for her to have to suffer like she did, and I decided after that that if I can do anything about it that won’t be me, and it certainly won’t be my husband.

Yes, I can say that if I’m ever diagnosed with something that is in all likelihood terminal there is a very good chance that I will take my own life before my body is withered, my mind is ravaged, and my family is witnessing it.

My experience is very similar to yours except it was my mother. She did not want to live like that and I refuse to either if ever in that situation. I think it’s cruel to make someone like that live against their wishes.

 

[EasterJoy]

My experience is very similar to yours except it was my mother. She did not want to live like that and I refuse to either if ever in that situation. I think it’s cruel to make someone like that live against their wishes.

To clarify: It is not automatically a good thing to prolong the process of death; neither are people morally bound to accept or recommend treatment solely based on whether it will push a person’s date of death out farther. Sometimes, such treatment accomplishes no more than prolonging the patient’s suffering. As you imply, that course of action can rise to the level of cruelty, even if committed out of ignorance.

Under no circumstance, however, can it be taught on a Catholic website that a life of suffering or a life of incapacity is to be valued less than another life. A Catholic may not take a life, and a Catholic may not withhold life-sustaining care that morality demands because life has become difficult. Suicide and euthanasia are morally forbidden, even when covert.

IOW, while there is no moral compulsion to prolong an inevitable death and while it is morally sound to treat pain or other kinds of suffering with the unintended side effect that death might come sooner, it is not morally permissible to act (or refrain from acting) with the primary aim of shortening someone’s life because we believe a quick exit would be a mercy. Judging whose life is and is not worth living is not our decision, even when the life in question is our own.

 

[EasterJoy]

I couldn’t have said it any better, I too worked in a hospital helping very sick, often elderly people I learnt so much from them it was a privilege to help them. I agree with you when you mention they did not want to appear a burden to their families, how very very sad.

Yes, that is sad. How often this is heard, too, from a mother who has borne the burdens of her family for half a century! That is very sad, indeed. It can also be very hard for children to keep from over-compensating with extraordinary efforts when her care becomes difficult, too. That is what I meant by “There is enough guesswork required as it is, simply by the true nature these choices usually have.” People ought to be ready for the reality that most families have to do the best they can. Most of the time, mercifully, death is not drawn out. Ready or not, it just comes, and that is it. Still, too much of the time, there is a slide into a flurry of decisions, and there isn’t a single answer with “RIGHT” printed on the label. There is decision after decision, maybe slow at first, but gradually coming faster. It can be very hard to know when to say “no” and when to say “yes”, and before you know it, the family is dizzy and exhausted with all the deciding.

I say to the OP: At least your parents are talking about it. Even if you disagree, it is a blessing to actually know what they think.

 

[LittleRose]

You are not obligated to fulfill a request from anyone that requires you to violate Church teaching. That includes the State, your employer, and even your family members. Others on this thread have pointed out the importance of informing yourself on Catholic teaching regarding end-of-life care. Here are some links to get you started:

ewtn.com/morals/end-of-life.htm
examiner.com/article/a-catholic-guide-to-end-of-life-carehttp://www.ncbcenter.org/page.aspx?pid=1319

Thanks for the replies. There is some good advice in there. Perhaps I should clarify a few things:

It sounds like my parents have already designated my brother as the one to carry out their deathbed decisions. Presumably they have done this because they think he shares their views more closely.

On the one hand, I realize that they have the right to do this. On the other, I feel passed over as the eldest son who traditionally would be the one designated to care for the family. Apparently they feel that, because of my belief in God, I am not going to faithfully carry out their wishes.

As much as this hurts, it does suggest that they recognize that they do not have the right to demand that you violate your conscience. It would hurt more if something happened and you felt you were being forced to choose between God and your parents.

 

[maryjk]

I couldn’t have said it any better, I too worked in a hospital helping very sick, often elderly people I learnt so much from them it was a privilege to help them. I agree with you when you mention they did not want to appear a burden to their families, how very very sad.

I cannot begin to explain all that I gained when I took care of my mother. She was sick for months, in the hospital for most of it and at my house for the end. I would not give up a minute I spent with her. She taught me so much.

I also spent time with my father in his final weeks. He died at the hospital, but I was there, holding his hand. He was too sick to come home, or I would have had him at home for his final days and hours.

The last thing they were was a burden. They were a gift and I was proud to be able to spend that time with them and I gained so much.

 

[EasterJoy]

As much as this hurts, it does suggest that they recognize that they do not have the right to demand that you violate your conscience. It would hurt more if something happened and you felt you were being forced to choose between God and your parents.

I think you’re right. I think the parents passed over the OP at least partly to avoid putting their decision-maker between a rock and a hard place, which wouldn’t have been fair to ask.

 

[dsully]

Wow, good point. I didn’t think of it that way.

It still seemed a little bit weird, as if they were just waiting for me to object. But I guess it’s just an uncomfortable situation for everyone, and I should be thankful that they made a decision rather than leaving it to my brother and me to “fight” over.

Thanks for the support, all.

Dan

 

[Demetra2]

If you are considering converting to Catholicism you should first educate yourself on what the Church teaches concerning end of life issues and the sound moral reasoning for it. Concerning these life and death issues it is important to go to an orthodox Catholic source and not be misguided by non Catholic opinions. Talk to a Catholic priest for proper insights on this situation. Your parents comments on how they wish to die are at odds with Church teaching and if you convert this will put you in a difficult position. And you may be the one making these decisions.

As a cancer survivor who went through chemo, surgery and radiation I find it very sad that anyone would prefer to kill themselves rather than forge ahead with treatment. Modern cancer treatment has come along way and although it is no picnic it is doable and the rewards are great. I am very happy and grateful to be alive and glad that I did not “off” myself. I did have some suffering but I had courage and got through it and my family, doctors and Jesus were with me every step of the way. I am blessed.

None of us knows how the end will come and we may be surprised. Right now I am facing end of life decisions for my 91 yr old FIL and it is a blessing to have the guidance of the Catholic Church. We know that we will do everything that is both morally and spiritually good for him. Blessed JPII has set a beautiful example for us all.