Honoring thy father when they father doesn't honor thy search for faith

[HomeInNE]

I posted a message on my Facebook page yesterday, asking for people who were interested in participating in discussion about Christianity in general, and specifically Catholicism. I wanted the thoughts and experiences of real-world Catholics that I know; I’ve read enough academic descriptions of Protestantism vs. Catholicism as well as Chad Torgerson’s book. My questions now are less about liturgical and doctrinal differences between the churches, and more about how people in the real world cope with their disagreements with the church, how they view their obligations … i.e., the logistics of Catholic life.

My father was kind enough to pick me up from dropping my car off at the shop and as he drove me home, he made it pretty clear what his thoughts are on Catholicism, and it was also pretty clear he didn’t think I’d done my homework. I’ll spare the gorey details - suffice it to say, he would not be in support of me converting.

My father and I had a strained relationship for many years, and only in my adulthood did we begin to at least be able to speak to each other about intellectual matters (never emotional or spiritual ones). I admit that where he is concerned, I will always feel the little child - in no small part because he still seems to view me that way. I find this very hurtful. I also find his approach quite hurtful; there I was, dependent on him to get me where I needed to be, nowhere to go, and he spoke pretty forcefully against a faith I’m just beginning to discover for myself (and admire). It seems I never could, and still can’t, do anything right in his eyes. Perhaps that is why I seek my Heavenly Father’s love now more than ever.

How am I supposed to honor my earthly father and Heavenly Father, both? Does anyone else have experience with the lack of support from a parent when they considered conversion in adulthood?

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

I posted a message on my Facebook page yesterday, That was silly!asking for people who were interested in participating in discussion about Christianity in general, and specifically Catholicism.WHY WOULD YOU DO THAT!? I wanted the thoughts and experiences of real-world Catholics that I know; I’ve read enough academic descriptions of Protestantism vs. Catholicism as well as Chad Torgerson’s book. My questions now are less about liturgical and doctrinal differences between the churches, and more about how people in the real world cope with their disagreements with the church, how they view their obligations … i.e., the logistics of Catholic life. Go out and meet people.

My father was kind enough to pick me up from dropping my car off at the shop and as he drove me home, he made it pretty clear what his thoughts are on Catholicism, and it was also pretty clear he didn’t think I’d done my homework. I’ll spare the gorey details - suffice it to say, he would not be in support of me converting. Yes, he obviously has considered his faith.

My father and I had a strained relationship for many years, and only in my adulthood did we begin to at least be able to speak to each other about intellectual matters (never emotional or spiritual ones). I admit that where he is concerned, I will always feel the little child - in no small part because he still seems to view me that way.Yes, that is the nature of your relationship with him I find this very hurtful.Why? You allow it. I also find his approach quite hurtful; there I was, dependent on him to get me where I needed to be, nowhere to go, and he spoke pretty forcefully against a faith I’m just beginning to discover for myself (and admire). It seems I never could, and still can’t, do anything right in his eyes. Perhaps that is why I seek my Heavenly Father’s love now more than ever.eah, that sounds like there are some unresolved issues there.

How am I supposed to honor my earthly father and Heavenly Father, both? You honor both by following the Truth and keeping the Commands of the Lord your God. Does anyone else have experience with the lack of support from a parent when they considered conversion in adulthood?Yes

I converted at 19. Not quite an “adult” but certainly not with my family. My father died when I was 19 and I was very close to him. He was Mormon (non practicing) and my mom was Anglican (not practicing) The religious differences with my mother will never ever be sorted out. She is lost. But, like any child, I still seek her approval. And though I am 40 with 5 kids of my own, she still has a problem seeing me as an adult. Perhaps this is part of the reason we are somewhat estranged. But I can tell you that as you reach marks of adulthood. such as marriage and a family, you depend less and less on the approval or manipulation of parents. And any parent SHOULD be skeptical about a “conversion”
20 years down the road, there will be no doubt about your education about your faith or your sincerity. But now? Not so much. I don’t quite know your age but I think you are caught somewhere in the middle of adolescence and adulthood. This is a time of much searching in people. And your parents will have an opinion on that good or bad.

You honor your earthy father by being a decent human being and son/daughter to him. You need to respect his beliefs and not challenge them if you do not have the relationship to do so. (you don’t) And you honor him by growing up as your own person. And educating yourself in your faith and in the matters that are important to you. And you honor him by being a better parent than he was.

You honor your heavenly Father by worshiping Him in the Church He set up for you.

The two need not be exclusive or in opposition to each other.

 

[HomeInNE]

First, I know everyone on my Facebook. I wasn’t soliciting a discussion among strangers. I was clear to those who were interested that I expect the conversation to remain respectful and I will shut it down if it doesn’t.

Why do I find it hurtful that my father views me as a little child? (My response will also answer another of your questions). I am 36 years old. I am not a little child. I no more “allow” him to view me that way than I “allow” him to view anything else in the world. It’s how he chooses to see me - immature, in need of guidance - even though I have been through far morein life and came through it far more resiliently and responsibly in my 36 years than he could ever have claimed to have done at my age. Just sayin’. It’s hurtful to me because it lacks consideration for who I actually am, which I think would be hurtful to any child when coming from their parent.

I appreciate your thoughts on balancing honoring him as my father while continuing my search in faith. I will take it to heart.

 

[eightydeuce82]

First, I know everyone on my Facebook. I wasn’t soliciting a discussion among strangers. I was clear to those who were interested that I expect the conversation to remain respectful and I will shut it down if it doesn’t.

Why do I find it hurtful that my father views me as a little child? (My response will also answer another of your questions). I am 36 years old. I am not a little child. I no more “allow” him to view me that way than I “allow” him to view anything else in the world. It’s how he chooses to see me - immature, in need of guidance - even though I have been through far morein life and came through it far more resiliently and responsibly in my 36 years than he could ever have claimed to have done at my age. Just sayin’. It’s hurtful to me because it lacks consideration for who I actually am, which I think would be hurtful to any child when coming from their parent.

I appreciate your thoughts on balancing honoring him as my father while continuing my search in faith. I will take it to heart.

I think once you find Jesus in his church and receive him in the Eucharist your relationship with your father will change because you will change. Staying at a halfway point is of no use to you or him. Let him see your conversion and make it public let it be very visible.

 

[agnes_therese]

How am I supposed to honor my earthly father and Heavenly Father, both? Does anyone else have experience with the lack of support from a parent when they considered conversion in adulthood?

Honoring him doesn’t mean agreeing with all his opinions. And, since you’re an adult, it doesn’t mean not following your faith journey just because he disagrees.

Having said that, only you can say whether you should begin to (gently and respectfully) call him out when you feel he’s treating you like a child. It could be that he doesn’t realize that’s what he’s doing.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

I think once you find Jesus in his church and receive him in the Eucharist your relationship with your father will change because you will change. Staying at a halfway point is of no use to you or him. Let him see your conversion and make it public let it be very visible.

Yes. This.

And I see from the OPs other posts that she was married briefly to an atheist less than a year ago and the new love interest is a Catholic. The father may have some concerns that would be understandable. Of course we all recognize that the Truth is in the Catholic Church and I encourage everyone who can to convert, but it is important to see how others may view it or be concerned about a new direction you might go. That being said, the mid 30s is not a time in your maturity where daddy should be dictating your faith to you. It is time to act the grown up regardless if your parents wish to treat you as one. I was surprised at the age of the OP. Not that I think that there is necessarily a maturity problem here. Though there might be given the OPs history. I do think that at this age one should be grounded in who they are.

 

[AKDee]

Honoring your parents, when you are an adult, does not mean you must obey them. It just means you must treat them with respect, visit them, take care of them when they are older, and pray for them in life and after death.

My mom was unsupportive of me joining the Church (I just was baptized/confirmed at Easter Vigil this year). My dad was supportive, although he’s not Catholic. My employers (who are devout Baptists) also didn’t react well although they’ve settled down.

There were people in my RCIA group that were facing more difficult situations. I don’t think it’s uncommon for people in the conversion process to lose friends and to even have family turn their backs on them. And if you recall, Jesus warned us in the Gospels that this would happen.

I found the conversion process to be a challenging one, emotionally, but knew it was something I needed to do. I knew prior to ever beginning RCIA that the Catholic church was correct and RCIA only confirmed that for me.

Edit to add: One thing I should mention- I had a strong feeling during the RCIA process that things would get easier after I was baptized and confirmed. While I was in RCIA there were periods of spiritual dryness and other challenges, even times where I felt I was under spiritual attack. But that feeling that it would get better after I was baptized and confirmed never went away…and sure enough, after I was baptized and confirmed things did get better. Oddly, it wasn’t that people became more supportive or accepting. My mom and I remain estranged, for example, but my ability to deal with it has gotten better. I’ve become more accepting that this is out of my control. I pray for reconciliation with my mom, but I accept that it may not happen. If that makes sense.

 

[HomeInNE]

Yes. This.

And I see from the OPs other posts that she was married briefly to an atheist less than a year ago and the new love interest is a Catholic. The father may have some concerns that would be understandable. Of course we all recognize that the Truth is in the Catholic Church and I encourage everyone who can to convert, but it is important to see how others may view it or be concerned about a new direction you might go. That being said, the mid 30s is not a time in your maturity where daddy should be dictating your faith to you. It is time to act the grown up regardless if your parents wish to treat you as one. I was surprised at the age of the OP. Not that I think that there is necessarily a maturity problem here. Though there might be given the OPs history. I do think that at this age one should be grounded in who they are.

Your opinion is duly noted, although I would argue that there is no age beyond which a person cannot have their foundations shaken. While you might think my brief marriage to an atheist is a sign of immaturity, I see the brevity of my marriage as a sign of great maturity - perhaps not at the time I entered the marriage (I’ll fully admit to “immaturity”, if it must be called that, at that particular point in time though there’s a great deal more to the story that has to do with shaken foundations) but certainly as soon as I realized the mistake it was.

I couldn’t agree more that my father shouldn’t be dictating religion to me at my age, which is a big reason for my offense at his doing so.

May I ask why you seem to feel so intent upon insinuating less than kind things about my character?

 

[HomeInNE]

Honoring your parents, when you are an adult, does not mean you must obey them. It just means you must treat them with respect, visit them, take care of them when they are older, and pray for them in life and after death.

True. Much appreciated; I hadn’t thought of it so simply. I think where my struggle is, is that I’m not sure I could say I was honoring my father if I defended my decisions to consider Catholicism to him, because I know before even doing it that it would lead to an argument. Neither can I feel that I’m truly honoring God or the church by allowing him to attack it as openly (and with misinformation) as he does to me. But I suppose the right thing to is ask God for grace in those situations; to not allow my father’s opinion to rile me.

My mom was unsupportive of me joining the Church (I just was baptized/confirmed at Easter Vigil this year). My dad was supportive, although he’s not Catholic. My employers (who are devout Baptists) also didn’t react well although they’ve settled down.

There were people in my RCIA group that were facing more difficult situations. I don’t think it’s uncommon for people in the conversion process to lose friends and to even have family turn their backs on them. And if you recall, Jesus warned us in the Gospels that this would happen.

YES - that was the first thing that came to mind last night once I was out of father’s presence. I thought of the struggle I’ve already had, and realized it was naive to think I wouldn’t have more struggles on this journey.

I found the conversion process to be a challenging one, emotionally, but knew it was something I needed to do. I knew prior to ever beginning RCIA that the Catholic church was correct and RCIA only confirmed that for me.

Edit to add: One thing I should mention- I had a strong feeling during the RCIA process that things would get easier after I was baptized and confirmed. While I was in RCIA there were periods of spiritual dryness and other challenges, even times where I felt I was under spiritual attack. But that feeling that it would get better after I was baptized and confirmed never went away…and sure enough, after I was baptized and confirmed things did get better. Oddly, it wasn’t that people became more supportive or accepting. My mom and I remain estranged, for example, but my ability to deal with it has gotten better. I’ve become more accepting that this is out of my control. I pray for reconciliation with my mom, but I accept that it may not happen. If that makes sense.

I think that by drawing closer to God, in whatever way we choose to do it, we make ourselves more open to His grace, and this is what allows things to get easier. I think the closer we come to God, the more we understand that many of our earthly concerns are really not so important after all. Not that it doesn’t hurt, of course, to be estranged from a parent - but knowing that ultimately, God has given us the life He intends for us, and that we walk with Him when we accept that life.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Your opinion is duly noted, although I would argue that there is no age beyond which a person cannot have their foundations shaken. While you might think my brief marriage to an atheist is a sign of immaturity, I see the brevity of my marriage as a sign of great maturity - perhaps not at the time I entered the marriage (I’ll fully admit to “immaturity”, if it must be called that, at that particular point in time though there’s a great deal more to the story that has to do with shaken foundations) but certainly as soon as I realized the mistake it was.

I couldn’t agree more that my father shouldn’t be dictating religion to me at my age, which is a big reason for my offense at his doing so.

May I ask why you seem to feel so intent upon insinuating less than kind things about my character?

I am sorry you took offense to that. It was not my intention. I would like to point out that you began this thread with an entire paragraph about wanting to engage those you know in a conversation about religion so I think it is unfair to accuse him of dictating this to you. Also you may very well be mature. But there are a couple things to consider. 1) not too many mid 30s people have your type of questions about parents. And your marriage was short. I think it is important to realize that your father may have concerns about this as it is also so quick. Not even a year later and your new boyfriend is Catholic and now you wish to be as well. That may all be well and good. And perhaps even as you pointed out “providence” but it is also worth considering how others may view it or have opinions on it. One does not simply mature in a few years after making a large mistake. It takes much time, wisdom, and life experience. I am a convert who lost a parent and was mad a God too remember. I speak from experience. My relationship with my mother is also estranged. I encourage you rather than seeing this advice as uncharitable. You simply employ more introspection and less reaction. I am not insinuating less than kind things, I am taking note of what you have chosen to share on these boards. Much like inviting others on Facebook into a discussion about your upcoming (hopefully) conversion you cannot have thin skinned reactions and perhaps you could showcase your maturity by seeing things from other perspectives.

I want you to convert, I want this man to be the man you will raise children with. I want you to be Holy. I want you to realize that the job of a spouse is to help the other achieve heaven and this may very well be the man and the Church for you. But I also ask that you consider honoring your father by realizing that he may have concern about your sincerity or wisdom given the past. And that while you need to be an adult here, you should charitably assume he is coming at this from a place of caring and love no matter how misinformed or poorly he is handling it. Doing this demonstrates not only the Christian and Catholic concept of honor and charity but also the maturity that you wish he saw in you.
He may be clumsy, he may be fallible, and he may even be a bad dad and a jerk, but He is most definable telling you things he thinks are right. And he is not doing this to hurt you but rather to help guide you. It just may be that it is not really his place and that he could be wrong.

Good luck to you. If it is one thing facebook and CAF should teach you it is that when you invite responses, you need to be open to receiving them all. Even the ones you do not like.

BTW in your title you used thy twice. And I liked it because today is national talk in Shakespearean day.
daysoftheyear.com/days/talk-like-shakespeare-day/

Very good. Thou Home is in thy fair village in the grand kingdom of NE. Didst thou father not act in thy language of loveth. Didst thou ever think that it would be so sweet as to have considereth becoming a princess of the kingdom of thy creator in his barque. the Church of thy Lord.

I prithee have a good day my fair maiden.

 

[HomeInNE]

I am sorry you took offense to that. It was not my intention. I would like to point out that you began this thread with an entire paragraph about wanting to engage those you know in a conversation about religion so I think it is unfair to accuse him of dictating this to you. Also you may very well be mature. But there are a couple things to consider. 1) not too many mid 30s people have your type of questions about parents. And your marriage was short. I think it is important to realize that your father may have concerns about this as it is also so quick. Not even a year later and your new boyfriend is Catholic and now you wish to be as well. That may all be well and good. And perhaps even as you pointed out “providence” but it is also worth considering how others may view it or have opinions on it. One does not simply mature in a few years after making a large mistake. It takes much time, wisdom, and life experience. I am a convert who lost a parent and was mad a God too remember. I speak from experience. My relationship with my mother is also estranged. I encourage you rather than seeing this advice as uncharitable. You simply employ more introspection and less reaction. I am not insinuating less than kind things, I am taking note of what you have chosen to share on these boards. Much like inviting others on Facebook into a discussion about your upcoming (hopefully) conversion you cannot have thin skinned reactions and perhaps you could showcase your maturity by seeing things from other perspectives.

I want you to convert, I want this man to be the man you will raise children with. I want you to be Holy. I want you to realize that the job of a spouse is to help the other achieve heaven and this may very well be the man and the Church for you. But I also ask that you consider honoring your father by realizing that he may have concern about your sincerity or wisdom given the past. And that while you need to be an adult here, you should charitably assume he is coming at this from a place of caring and love no matter how misinformed or poorly he is handling it. Doing this demonstrates not only the Christian and Catholic concept of honor and charity but also the maturity that you wish he saw in you.
He may be clumsy, he may be fallible, and he may even be a bad dad and a jerk, but He is most definable telling you things he thinks are right. And he is not doing this to hurt you but rather to help guide you. It just may be that it is not really his place and that he could be wrong.

Good luck to you. If it is one thing facebook and CAF should teach you it is that when you invite responses, you need to be open to receiving them all. Even the ones you do not like.

BTW in your title you used thy twice. And I liked it because today is national talk in Shakespearean day.
daysoftheyear.com/days/talk-like-shakespeare-day/

Very good. Thou Home is in thy fair village in the grand kingdom of NE. Didst thou father not act in thy language of loveth. Didst thou ever think that it would be so sweet as to have considereth becoming a princess of the kingdom of thy creator in his barque. the Church of thy Lord.

I prithee have a good day my fair maiden.

I’m quite open to receiving all manner of responses, simply wondered at what seemed to be an insistence on your part to point out character flaws such as immaturity in someone you know from perhaps 8 online posts

 

[Dorothy]

HomeinNE,

I couldn’t help but think of this scripture to share:

Matthew 10:34-36 “Do not think that I have come to bring peace on earth; I have not come to bring peace but a sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law, and a man’s foes will be those of his own household.”

Our Lord Jesus Christ is here speaking about the strife that takes place in a family when a member desires to follow Him, and the others disagree, misunderstand, and try to convince not to convert. When we truly want to follow Jesus we usually come up against naysayers among our friends and family.

I pray that Jesus gives you the peace that He gave to the apostles after His Resurrection when he came to the upper room. With His peace in our hearts, and renewal with prayer and sacraments, we can put up with whatever difficulties people throw our way with their words.

Pray for them, and stand firm.

May the Lord Jesus Christ and His holy Mother be with you on your spiritual journey to Him.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

I’m quite open to receiving all manner of responses, simply wondered at what seemed to be an insistence on your part to point out character flaws such as immaturity in someone you know from perhaps 8 online posts

I have pointed out no such flaws only that others may have a concern.

You are right I don’t know you at all. But what I do know are things you have chosen to share. And you are asking advice from people that only know 8 posts from you. So I am confused as to the inconsistent of logic about that. We only have the information you have provided. Nothing more. Which is why the answer to your initial question I provided, that the two do not have to be mutually exclusive and you can do both no matter the situation was to your liking, but more comments based solely on the information you have provided and offered only with helpful intent are taken offense too. This may indeed manifest itself with your relationship with your father. Something to think about perhaps.

 

[HomeInNE]

I’ve taken no offense - just pointing out that it seemed to me you were intent on isinuating my character flaws, and I was curious as to why. An academic sort of question, actually.

 

[pianistclare]

I’ve taken no offense - just pointing out that it seemed to me you were intent on isinuating my character flaws, and I was curious as to why. An academic sort of question, actually.

I think you have taken great offense, which I am positive Hoosier didn’t mean.
Perhaps this is a clue as to why your father tends to “school” you. You seem to want a certain answer, and are easily offended by other, differing views.
That’s just how I read this, and I haven’t read any other threads by you.
At any rate,
You’re a grown person. You can do what you wish in faith and after good instruction.
I hope you do.
But truly, Facebook is not the place to receive instruction, advice, or even educated opinions. The real live “internet” Catholics are here. And even among us, you will very often receive conflicting opinions and information.
The information and support you seek can be found here to a degree, but the BEST place to seek is in an RCIA class at your local Catholic Church. The pastoral elements of having someone look you in the eye while speaking and listening to you is invaluable. There are many good and well trained catechists awaiting you. Indeed, Christ Himself awaits.
I hope you pursue this path, and are blessed by it.
Peace!

 

[SyroMalankara]

You should be aware that it is probably recommended that should you decide to convert or go to RCIA to discern conversion, that your prior marriage will probably need to be annulled.

Whatever you do, do it for your love of God first, not your relationship with your dad or your current boyfriend.

 

[SilverAvenger]

I am writting this as someone whose faith disagrees with my entire family: from my strictly atheist mother and sister to my father, who disliked organized religion and the Judeo-christian way of thought.

When I first decided to return to Christianity, and made a small oratory in my bedroom, my mother went berserk on me. She wanted me, not only to dismantle the oratory as also to get rid of the dresser over it had been assembled. She forbade me of getting religious books, forbade me to attend mass and even confiscated my rosary. I was 21 at that time.

At 22, I sat down with my mom and had a chat with her. I made a solemn oath that I wouldn’t try to convert her, and managed to establish that “what happens in my room, is my problem”…only exception being it being obssessively clean or not [mom has the cleaning addiction and gets berserk if we don’t agree. Since she can turn even more violent than my dad…we do our best not to antagonize her.] Sadly, I’m still not allowed to go to mass [the priest is aware of my situation], and became a lay hermit at home.

It ends up by solving itself by establishing boundaries. Explain to your dad that you don’t plan on proseletyzing or anything. That you’ll steer clear from his buisness and would expect the same. Tell him that everyone is entitled to their own faith journey, and if that faith journey takes them to Catholicism, then, like I told mom “better be a catholic than belonging to a satanic cult”

I am 23 now. My mom ended up by respecting my beleafs…so much that sometimes, she even asks me to bless things following the rites [which lairity may follow, at last according to the Rituale Romanum which my diosese distributes online] at home.

But I’m still not allowed to be confirmed or to go to mass.

Those things will change in time. I know it. God will see to it, for God knows best. Trust into God, that He shall direct your path.