Hope for the Episcopal Church

[Scottgun]

I take small pleasure in the train wreck myself.

GKC

Well, I do often point out to Catholics who bang the drum for women priests, normalizing homosexual whatchamacallits, and jabbering on endlessly in Politically Correct platitudes need only look at the smoldering pile of rubble that used to be the Episcopal Church to see that it is not a growth strategy. The pleasure there is simply from being right.

 

[GKC]

Well, I do often point out to Catholics who bang the drum for women priests, normalizing homosexual whatchamacallits, and jabbering on endlessly in Politically Correct platitudes need only look at the smoldering pile of rubble that used to be the Episcopal Church to see that it is not a growth strategy. The pleasure there is simply from being right.

If pleasure it is to be called, certainly I share it. But it is a melancholy and bitter one.

GKC

posterus traditus Anglicanus

 

[7_Sorrows]

Well, I do often point out to Catholics who bang the drum for women priests, normalizing homosexual whatchamacallits, and jabbering on endlessly in Politically Correct platitudes need only look at the smoldering pile of rubble that used to be the Episcopal Church to see that it is not a growth strategy. The pleasure there is simply from being right.

The Popes, Cardinals and Archbishops have witnessed what has happened to the episcopal church and other protestant churches that have welcomed same sex marriages, homosexuality and female priests. I lived through it in the episcopal church before I converted.
People don’t know what they are wishing for when they want the Catholic church to change their teachings!

 

[7_Sorrows]

If pleasure it is to be called, certainly I share it. But it is a melancholy and bitter one.

GKC

posterus traditus Anglicanus

:sad_yes::sad_yes::sad_yes:

 

[boar2roar]

What do you mean by hope? They are never going to not be a liberal church, that boat sailed a long time ago. They couldn’t have had a more liberal leader than the lady that they had. Whatever serious traditional christians they had would have left a long time ago. A middle of the road liberal isn’t going to change anything.

 

[Picky_Picky]

What do you mean by hope? They are never going to not be a liberal church, that boat sailed a long time ago. They couldn’t have had a more liberal leader than the lady that they had. Whatever serious traditional christians they had would have left a long time ago. A middle of the road liberal isn’t going to change anything.

Odd this modern use of “liberal” to mean, I don’t know, evil, perhaps? To many Anglicans, of course, “middle of the road” sounds close to what Anglicanism has always been about. Elizabeth I perhaps was the quintessential middle-of-the-roader.

 

[benjohnson]

Whatever serious traditional christians they had would have left a long time ago.

I wouldn’t agree - at least in the Lutheran world. I would say the members in the ELCA are generally less secular-driven than the leadership for example, and there individual churches and members that are quite traditional.

 

[estesbob]

In the coming year we will elect a new Presiding Bishop as Bishop Schori is not running for reelection -there is a chance that a middle of the road candidate might be elected-if not and the ultra liberal wing fully takes over the CHurch ( say bishop Glasspool ) all hope for reconciliation with the Anglican Church in North America dissolves-litigation continues regarding properties and a fine old Church will enter its final days

I have heard recently that a merger with the ELCA is also a possiblity

would apreciate comments and thoughts

Come home and let the Episcopal Church sort themselves out.

 

[cmodrmac]

Thank you all for your comments-the election process is a bit Byzantine-from ECUSA website

The Joint Nominating Committee for the Election of the Presiding Bishop (JNCPB) continues its work and is pleased to share with the Church its timeline for the process for the election of the Presiding Bishop at the 78th General Convention in June 2015.

On August 1, 2014, JNCPB will post the Profile and issue a Call for Nominations.

Nominations will open October 1 and close October 31, 2014.

JNCPB will announce its nominees in early May 2015.

For two weeks after announcement of the JNCPB’s nominees, any deputy or bishop may indicate their intent to nominate other bishops at General Convention in accordance with a process that JNCPB will announce.

The identity of the additional nominees will be available by early June.

Presentation of the nominees will take place at a Joint Session of General Convention

 

[7_Sorrows]

Thank you all for your comments-the election process is a bit Byzantine-from ECUSA website

The Joint Nominating Committee for the Election of the Presiding Bishop (JNCPB) continues its work and is pleased to share with the Church its timeline for the process for the election of the Presiding Bishop at the 78th General Convention in June 2015.

On August 1, 2014, JNCPB will post the Profile and issue a Call for Nominations.

Nominations will open October 1 and close October 31, 2014.

JNCPB will announce its nominees in early May 2015.

For two weeks after announcement of the JNCPB’s nominees, any deputy or bishop may indicate their intent to nominate other bishops at General Convention in accordance with a process that JNCPB will announce.

The identity of the additional nominees will be available by early June.

Presentation of the nominees will take place at a Joint Session of General Convention

Thanks for the info. This will be an important election.
I am sure there will be media coverage when the nominees are announced. I hope there will be at least 4 and not just a couple.

 

[CatholicWhovian]

Not necessarily. As Stilldreamn noted, the Episcopal Church and the ELCA are already in communion with one another. If they formerly merged, in some fashion, that itself would not affect the membership of the new entity in the formal Anglican Communion, necessarily. The Communion would have to take some formal action to remove them or the new entity would have to take steps to depart.

GKC

Huh?

I still don’t get it since I assume that ELCA (being Lutheran) and the Episcopal Church (being in the Anglican Communion) have some differences that make both churches distinct.

 

[ltwin]

Huh?

I still don’t get it since I assume that ELCA (being Lutheran) and the Episcopal Church (being in the Anglican Communion) have some differences that make both churches distinct.

What you need to understand about the ELCA and the Episcopal Church is that both churches, within the context of US Christianity, are Mainline Protestant churches. For years now, the Mainline Protestant denominations have been ran by those of the modernist or liberal theological persuasion. This doctrinal orientation holds to the precept of Ecumenicalism for Ecumenicalism’s own sake.

All liberal Mainliners have denigrated any loyalty to their churches’ traditional doctrines in favor of a lowest common denominator type Christianity that bends towards accepting the most up to date scientific theories (this is called making “Reason” equal to the Holy Scriptures in discovering the will of God but in reality human reason supplants Holy Scripture) and latest Politically Correct social trends (this is called being “Prophetic”).

Both the Episcopal Church and the ELCA have traditional liturgies and church government. They both are ran by liberal Mainline factions who consider themselves the leaders of progressive and socially just Christianity in America. Probably most importantly, both churches are hemorrhaging members and money. Why shouldn’t they merge?

 

[GKC]

Huh?

I still don’t get it since I assume that ELCA (being Lutheran) and the Episcopal Church (being in the Anglican Communion) have some differences that make both churches distinct.

Itwin is spot on.

GKC

 

[7_Sorrows]

What you need to understand about the ELCA and the Episcopal Church is that both churches, within the context of US Christianity, are Mainline Protestant churches. For years now, the Mainline Protestant denominations have been ran by those of the modernist or liberal theological persuasion. This doctrinal orientation holds to the precept of Ecumenicalism for Ecumenicalism’s own sake.

All liberal Mainliners have denigrated any loyalty to their churches’ traditional doctrines in favor of a lowest common denominator type Christianity that bends towards accepting the most up to date scientific theories (this is called making “Reason” equal to the Holy Scriptures in discovering the will of God but in reality human reason supplants Holy Scripture) and latest Politically Correct social trends (this is called being “Prophetic”).

Both the Episcopal Church and the ELCA have traditional liturgies and church government. They both are ran by liberal Mainline factions who consider themselves the leaders of progressive and socially just Christianity in America. Probably most importantly, both churches are hemorrhaging members and money. Why shouldn’t they merge?

A very good description of what has happened to mainline protestant churches.
However, I think the poster is saying that even though the leaders might be liberal progressives there are still unique characteristics to the ELCA and the episcopal church that the poster is not sure how they could merge. I might be wrong, but I think that is the confusion
Kind of like pepsi and dr. pepper. They are both colas and each has its own distinctive flavor that wouldn’t necessarily taste good if you mixed them together. I know that is a silly analogy, but it is the best I can think of.

 

[Picky_Picky]

A very good description of what has happened to mainline protestant churches.
However, I think the poster is saying that even though the leaders might be liberal progressives there are still unique characteristics to the ELCA and the episcopal church that the poster is not sure how they could merge. I might be wrong, but I think that is the confusion
Kind of like pepsi and dr. pepper. They are both colas and each has its own distinctive flavor that wouldn’t necessarily taste good if you mixed them together. I know that is a silly analogy, but it is the best I can think of.

Quite possibly. But I suppose that if they have found that the strength of their agreements leads them to believe they can live in one community, they are perhaps commanded to attempt union. If the churches of the world are to remain separated wherever they sense a “distinctive flavor”, reunion is way, way out of sight.

In another thread the Church of England was castigated for enabling women to become bishops because of the damage this would do to any chance of reunion with Rome and the East. Here, however, two churches working hard for union are warned: Don’t do it; you have distinctive flavors!

 

[7_Sorrows]

Quite possibly. But I suppose that if they have found that the strength of their agreements leads them to believe they can live in one community, they are perhaps commanded to attempt union. If the churches of the world are to remain separated wherever they sense a “distinctive flavor”, reunion is way, way out of sight.

In another thread the Church of England was castigated for enabling women to become bishops because of the damage this would do to any chance of reunion with Rome and the East. Here, however, two churches working hard for union are warned: Don’t do it; you have distinctive flavors!

 

[estesbob]

Thank you all for your comments-the election process is a bit Byzantine-from ECUSA website

The Joint Nominating Committee for the Election of the Presiding Bishop (JNCPB) continues its work and is pleased to share with the Church its timeline for the process for the election of the Presiding Bishop at the 78th General Convention in June 2015.

On August 1, 2014, JNCPB will post the Profile and issue a Call for Nominations.

Nominations will open October 1 and close October 31, 2014.

JNCPB will announce its nominees in early May 2015.

For two weeks after announcement of the JNCPB’s nominees, any deputy or bishop may indicate their intent to nominate other bishops at General Convention in accordance with a process that JNCPB will announce.

The identity of the additional nominees will be available by early June.

Presentation of the nominees will take place at a Joint Session of General Convention

I ask again-why not come home to the Catholic Church and leave all this political posturing behind you?

 

[Picky_Picky]

I ask again-why not come home to the Catholic Church and leave all this political posturing behind you?

The Catholic Church also has electoral processes and, when the cardinals meet to elect a new pope, members of the church discuss among themselves – and with others – what kind of pope they would like, and what direction they hope a new pope would take. Not so very different.

 

[7_Sorrows]

Quite possibly. But I suppose that if they have found that the strength of their agreements leads them to believe they can live in one community, they are perhaps commanded to attempt union. If the churches of the world are to remain separated wherever they sense a “distinctive flavor”, reunion is way, way out of sight.

In another thread the Church of England was castigated for enabling women to become bishops because of the damage this would do to any chance of reunion with Rome and the East. Here, however, two churches working hard for union are warned: Don’t do it; you have distinctive flavors!

 

[estesbob]

The Catholic Church also has electoral processes and, when the cardinals meet to elect a new pope, members of the church discuss among themselves – and with others – what kind of pope they would like, and what direction they hope a new pope would take. Not so very different.

Very , very different in that the Magestrium has no ability to Overturn doctrine. The “direction” the Pope takes has to do with what areas of the Faith he wants to concentrate on., nor profound changes like deciding its time for women to be priests or homosexual behavior has suddenly become OK