Hope

[fhansen]

But let’s say i said to you, “FH, i have complete faith in you!” Would you then think i was saying i trusted you, or that i merely believed you exist?

Trust.

Now let me ask a question which you or anyone else can answer if you’d like. As the OP was about the definition of hope, and considering that the CC seems to be the main Christian group that uses this term as a theological virtue, what do you think *her *purpose for the term hope would be if she intended to use it in the way it’s commonly used, if by faith she mainly meant trust/confidence? IOW, if a person already possessed trust and confidence in something what good would hope be?

If we intend now to discuss the purpose of a faith in Gods’ plan for man maybe we should decide to use that term exclusively to cover what the CC means by a combination of the terms faith and hope.

However, since you asked before, I thought I’d bring more confusion to bear on this from the Catholic Encyclopedia. Remember that these are considered* theological *virtues, meaning that they can only be possessed by supernatural means. For example, even if a belief in a creator-god is not unreasonable, that doesn’t mean we can believe in His existence, let alone the existence of a God with the kind of divine attributes attributed to the God of Christianity, on our own, i.e. without it being a gift. I purposely left out the description of Charity for now.

**All virtues have as their final scope to dispose man to acts conducive to his true happiness. The happiness, however, of which man is capable is twofold, namely, natural, which is attainable by man’s natural powers, and supernatural, which exceeds the capacity of unaided human nature. Since, therefore, merely natural principles of human action are inadequate to a supernatural end, it is necessary that man be endowed with supernatural powers to enable him to attain his final destiny. Now these supernatural principles are nothing else than the theological virtues. They are called theological

1. because they have God for their immediate and proper object;
2. because they are Divinely infused;
3. because they are known only through Divine Revelation.

The theological virtues are three, viz. faith, hope, and charity.
Faith
Faith is an infused virtue, by which the intellect is perfected by a supernatural light, in virtue of which, under a supernatural movement of the will, it assents firmly to the supernatural truths of Revelation, not on the motive of intrinsic evidence, but on the sole ground of the infallible authority of God revealing. For as man is guided in the attainment of natural happiness by principles of knowledge known by the natural light of reason, so also in the attainment of his supernatural destiny his intellect must be illumined by certain supernatural principles, namely, Divinely revealed truths. (See FAITH.)
*Hope *
But not only man’s intellect must be perfected with regard to his supernatural end, his will also must tend to that end, as a good possible of attainment. Now the virtue, by which the will is so perfected, is the theological virtue of hope. It is commonly defined as a Divinely infused virtue, by which we trust, with an unshaken confidence grounded on the Divine assistance, to attain life everlasting.

**

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

Trust.…

However, since you asked before, I thought I’d bring more confusion to bear on this from the Catholic Encyclopedia. …

The theological virtues are three, viz. faith, hope, and charity.
Faith
Faith is an infused virtue, by which the intellect is perfected by a supernatural light, in virtue of which, under a supernatural movement of the will, it assents firmly to the supernatural truths of Revelation, not on the motive of intrinsic evidence, but on the sole ground of the infallible authority of God revealing. For as man is guided in the attainment of natural happiness by principles of knowledge known by the natural light of reason, so also in the attainment of his supernatural destiny his intellect must be illumined by certain supernatural principles, namely, Divinely revealed truths. (See FAITH.)
*Hope *
But not only man’s intellect must be perfected with regard to his supernatural end, his will also must tend to that end, as a good possible of attainment. Now the virtue, by which the will is so perfected, is the theological virtue of hope. It is commonly defined as a Divinely infused virtue, by which we trust, with an unshaken confidence grounded on the Divine assistance, to attain life everlasting.

I’ll see your Catholic Encyclopedia and raise you the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

Faith is a human act

154 Believing is possible only by grace and the interior helps of the Holy Spirit. But it is no less true that believing is an authentically human act. **Trusting in God **and cleaving to the truths he has revealed is contrary neither to human freedom nor to human reason.



All kidding aside, do you think the Catholic Encyclopedia agrees or disagrees with this definition of Faith in the CCC, and why do you think this?

 

[fhansen]

I’ll see your Catholic Encyclopedia and raise you the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

Faith is a human act

154 Believing is possible only by grace and the interior helps of the Holy Spirit. But it is no less true that believing is an authentically human act. **Trusting in God **and cleaving to the truths he has revealed is contrary neither to human freedom nor to human reason.



All kidding aside, do you think the Catholic Encyclopedia agrees or disagrees with this definition of Faith in the CCC, and why do you think this?

Yes, I’ve seen the CCC quote and even alluded to it in post #179. But I’m speaking of a preponderance of material, I believe, and I think it comes out weighing more heavily on the other side. I’d like to hear from others as well. For myself, I’m not sure why the Church distinguishes the virtues the way she does-it seems that one reason might be to emphasize that faith, alone, is insufficient for salvation-that faith by itself doesn’t “dispose man to acts conducive to his true happiness.” Otherwise, maybe it’d make it more sense to just limit the virtues to two: faith and love.

Having said that, I believe the CCC is stating the obvious, which we’ve discussed before, that with Christian faith, trust is always going to accompany it, regardless of how we may categorize these terms. The CE, OTOH, I believe was more precise in the way the virtues were defined, since that was the primary objective.

In any case, I believe that hope is a much more powerful virtue in Catholic thought than one might first presume based on their understanding of the word. I used to think that hope came first-that one may hope that there’s something “bigger” in the universe than sex, beer, football, money and a bunch of egomaniacs all in competition with each other. And that faith could follow that hope as we sought truth and as God responded. But while things definitely can proceed this way, this is not the correct definition of terms or the order of things according to the definitions as determined by the Church-who’ll I’ll assume has much greater wisdom on these matters than me. Some of this is possibly just a matter of semantics but I believe we should keep it all in mind no matter how we proceed.

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

Yes, I’ve seen the CCC quote and even alluded to it in post #179. But I’m speaking of a preponderance of material, I believe, and I think it comes out weighing more heavily on the other side. I’d like to hear from others as well. For myself, I’m not sure why the Church distinguishes the virtues the way she does-it seems that one reason might be to emphasize that faith, alone, is insufficient for salvation-that faith by itself doesn’t “dispose man to acts conducive to his true happiness.” Otherwise, maybe it’d make it more sense to just limit the virtues to two: faith and love.

Having said that, I believe the CCC is stating the obvious, which we’ve discussed before, that with Christian faith, trust is always going to accompany it, regardless of how we may categorize these terms. The CE, OTOH, I believe was more precise in the way the virtues were defined, since that was the primary objective.

In any case, I believe that hope is a much more powerful virtue in Catholic thought than one might first presume based on their understanding of the word. I used to think that hope came first-that one may hope that there’s something “bigger” in the universe than sex, beer, football, money and a bunch of egomaniacs all in competition with each other. And that faith could follow that hope as we sought truth and as God responded. But while things definitely can proceed this way, this is not the correct definition of terms or the order of things according to the definitions as determined by the Church-who’ll I’ll assume has much greater wisdom on these matters than me. Some of this is possibly just a matter of semantics but I believe we should keep it all in mind no matter how we proceed.

Agreed.



I believe that i have an observation that i hope will assist us: The difficulty we are facing is the one Socrates often faced when discussing virtue and vice with others. For example, in his conversation on pleasure and knowledge with Philebus and Protarchus–where they were discussing which was superior–they determined the one concept called pleasure had multiple kinds, some being pleasures of the body and others being pleasures of the soul. They could not come to any agreement as to whether knowledge was better than pleasure until they considered the many types of both pleasure and knowledge.

In our case, where we are trying to determine whether Love is superior to Faith and Hope, we are encountering the same dilemma: Depending on the context, the words Faith, Hope and Love have different meanings. For instance, we found that the love of God was greater than the love of man. Hope, you demonstrated, likely means trust when one says he hopes in God (or that Jesus is his blessed hope), but as i said, it likely means merely anticipation when one says she hopes that God will answer her prayer the way she expects. Faith, as you said, may mean mere intellectual assent in certain circumstances, but also means complete trust in God in other contexts.

You see, Hope (like Faith and Love) are each one, but also many. We use one word to describe many separate, and sometimes contrary, types. When i say the word Faith, i might be thinking of a different kind or example of faith than what comes to your mind. As you and i have discovered, both kinds of faith exist, even though one faith possesses complete trust in an object and the other faith completely lacks trust.

Consider your last post where you spoke of the Christian Faith (which is a body of religious beliefs). This faith is different than the concept that comes to mind when i say i have complete faith in you (which is trust). And you have raised the possibility that a third faith exists, which does not trust at all.

Do you believe i have correctly diagnosed the difficulty we are experiencing?

 

[fhansen]

Do you believe i have correctly diagnosed the difficulty we are experiencing?

Yes, I think so. But let me add a little extra data from a couple of more ancient sources which may -hopefully- help.

I thought I’d throw this in the pot, excerpted from Augustines’ Enchiridion, which I ran into on another thread:

.**… In these two we have the three theological virtues working together: faith believes; hope and love pray. Yet without faith nothing else is possible; thus faith prays too. This, then, is the meaning of the saying, “How shall they invoke him in whom they have not believed?”

1. Now, is it possible to hope for what we do not believe in? We can, of course, believe in something that we do not hope for. Who among the faithful does not believe in the punishment of the impious? Yet he does not hope for it, and whoever believes that such a punishment is threatening him and draws back in horror from it is more rightly said to fear than to hope.

Therefore faith may refer to evil things as well as to good, since we believe in both the good and evil. Yet faith is good, not evil. Moreover, faith refers to things past and present and future. For we believe that Christ died; this is a past event. We believe that he sitteth at the Father’s right hand; this is present. We believe that he will come as our judge; this is future. Again, faith has to do with our own affairs and with those of others. For everyone believes, both about himself and other persons–and about things as well–that at some time he began to exist and that he has not existed forever. Thus, not only about men, but even about angels, we believe many things that have a bearing on religion.

But hope deals only with good things, and only with those which lie in the future, and which pertain to the man who cherishes the hope. Since this is so, faith must be distinguished from hope: they are different terms and likewise different concepts. Yet faith and hope have this in common: they refer to what is not seen, whether this unseen is believed in or hoped for. Thus in the Epistle to the Hebrews, which is used by the enlightened defenders of the catholic rule of faith, faith is said to be "the conviction of things not seen."16 However, when a man maintains that neither words nor witnesses nor even arguments, but only the evidence of present experience, determine his faith, he still ought not to be called absurd or told, “You have seen; therefore you have not believed.” For it does not follow that unless a thing is not seen it cannot be believed. Still it is better for us to use the term “faith,” as we are taught in "the sacred eloquence,"17 to refer to things not seen. And as for hope, the apostle says: "Hope that is seen is not hope. For if a man sees a thing, why does he hope for it? If, however, we hope for what we do not see, we then wait for it in patience."18 When, therefore, our good is believed to be future, this is the same thing as hoping for it.
What, then, shall I say of love, without which faith can do nothing? There can be no true hope without love. Indeed, as the apostle James says, "Even the demons believe and tremble."19 Yet they neither hope nor love. Instead, believing as we do that what we hope for and love is coming to pass, they tremble. Therefore, the apostle Paul approves and commends the faith that works by love and that cannot exist without hope. Thus it is that love is not without hope, hope is not without love, and neither hope nor love are without faith.**

I also found a great article by Father John Hardon S.J. where he summarized Aquinas’ teachings on the virtues. These are some excerpts:

**For his intellect he [man] receives supernatural principles, held by means of divine light, which are the articles of belief accepted on faith. His will is directed to the same end in two ways: as an intentional drive moving towards that destiny to attain it (which is hope), and as a kind of spiritual union that somehow transforms the will into the goal it is seeking (which is charity).

Theological virtues supply for the mind and will what neither faculty has of itself, the salutary knowledge, desire and love of God and of His will, without which there could be no supernatural order, which means voluntary choice of suitable means to reach the heavenly goal to which we are elevated. These virtues make us well adjusted to our last end, which is God Himself; hence they are called theological, because they not only go out to God – as all virtue worthy of the name must do – but they also reach Him. To be well adjusted to our destiny we must know and desire it; the desire demands that we are in love with the object to which we are tending and are confident of obtaining it. Faith makes us know the God to whom we are going, hope makes us look forward to joining Him, and charity makes us love Him.
**

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

Yes, I think so. But let me add a little extra data from a couple of more ancient sources which may -hopefully- help.

I thought I’d throw this in the pot, excerpted from Augustines’ Enchiridion, which I ran into on another thread:

… In these two we have the three theological virtues working together: faith believes; hope and love pray. Yet without faith nothing else is possible; thus faith prays too. This, then, is the meaning of the saying, “How shall they invoke him in whom they have not believed?”

1. Now, is it possible to hope for what we do not believe in? We can, of course, believe in something that we do not hope for. Who among the faithful does not believe in the punishment of the impious? Yet he does not hope for it, and whoever believes that such a punishment is threatening him and draws back in horror from it is more rightly said to fear than to hope.

Therefore faith may refer to evil things as well as to good, since we believe in both the good and evil. Yet faith is good, not evil. Moreover, faith refers to things past and present and future. For we believe that Christ died; this is a past event. We believe that he sitteth at the Father’s right hand; this is present. We believe that he will come as our judge; this is future. Again, faith has to do with our own affairs and with those of others. For everyone believes, both about himself and other persons–and about things as well–that at some time he began to exist and that he has not existed forever. Thus, not only about men, but even about angels, we believe many things that have a bearing on religion.

But hope deals only with good things, and only with those which lie in the future, and which pertain to the man who cherishes the hope. Since this is so, faith must be distinguished from hope: they are different terms and likewise different concepts. Yet faith and hope have this in common: they refer to what is not seen, whether this unseen is believed in or hoped for. Thus in the Epistle to the Hebrews, which is used by the enlightened defenders of the catholic rule of faith, faith is said to be "the conviction of things not seen."16 However, when a man maintains that neither words nor witnesses nor even arguments, but only the evidence of present experience, determine his faith, he still ought not to be called absurd or told, “You have seen; therefore you have not believed.” For it does not follow that unless a thing is not seen it cannot be believed. Still it is better for us to use the term “faith,” as we are taught in "the sacred eloquence,"17 to refer to things not seen. And as for hope, the apostle says: "Hope that is seen is not hope. For if a man sees a thing, why does he hope for it? If, however, we hope for what we do not see, we then wait for it in patience."18 When, therefore, our good is believed to be future, this is the same thing as hoping for it.
What, then, shall I say of love, without which faith can do nothing? There can be no true hope without love. Indeed, as the apostle James says, "Even the demons believe and tremble."19 Yet they neither hope nor love. Instead, believing as we do that what we hope for and love is coming to pass, they tremble. Therefore, the apostle Paul approves and commends the faith that works by love and that cannot exist without hope. Thus it is that love is not without hope, hope is not without love, and neither hope nor love are without faith…

Gotta love St. Augustine. I’ve only read his Confessions, but i should read more. I’ll keep these thoughts of his in mind as we proceed.



We are agreed, then, as to the diagnosis of the problem, now i’d like to propose a cure: To determine whether Love or Faith and Hope are the greater virtues, let’s consider the best Love has to offer in your or i, and compare it to the best Faith and Hope that might exist within either of us. Like a coach who puts his best players on the field during a championship game, let’s put the best Faith and the best Hope up against the best Love your or i can imagine is possible within you or me.

If this is agreeable to you, please answer this question: Would you say that it is better to trust or not to trust God?

 

[fhansen]

Gotta love St. Augustine. I’ve only read his Confessions, but i should read more. I’ll keep these thoughts of his in mind as we proceed.



We are agreed, then, as to the diagnosis of the problem, now i’d like to propose a cure: To determine whether Love or Faith and Hope are the greater virtues, let’s consider the best Love has to offer in your or i, and compare it to the best Faith and Hope that might exist within either of us. Like a coach who puts his best players on the field during a championship game, let’s put the best Faith and the best Hope up against the best Love your or i can imagine is possible within you or me.

If this is agreeable to you, please answer this question: Would you say that it is better to trust or not to trust God?

Trust God.

 

[onelife1]

Hope is to find the truth

Hope is searching for the
unknown

Hoping to find yourself in a
a different light

without hope we have nothing

 

[rinnie]

Hope is to find the truth

Hope is searching for the
unknown

Hoping to find yourself in a
a different light

without hope we have nothing

I agree. But there are times in our lives we will, and can fill hopeless. I think thats normal. But we can still survive. How because when all else fails in our life we have one thing, one person, one word. GOD.

That is the only word you can find Alone after in the Catholic Faith. The Trinity, The Father, Son, the Holy Spirit, 3 persons in One being. God Alone, Now that is what faith is, Love, Hope, Happiness, are All one word our Savior. With God all things are not only possible they do happen. Without God everything in this world is worthless.

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

Trust God.

I concur. Very well, then, in choosing our best human virtues from the team of Faith and Hope, we should select the Hope or Faith that trusts.

Now i believe a good coach is one who understands his players’ strengths and weaknesses, so he knows how to guard against their weaknesses and exploit their strengths. So, let’s take just a moment to recap what we’ve learned about our best players from the Faith and Hope team and see what insight this gives us about the strengths and weaknesses of each.

You and i and David agreed that the opposite of Faith is doubt and the opposite of Hope is despair. With this truth in mind, we may draw the following conclusions, i think:

1. * The opposite of doubt is certainty, so Faith is (to a greater or lesser degree, depending on the object of said faith) certainty.* The opposite of despair is joyful expectation, so Hope is (to a greater or lesser degree, depending on the object of said hope) joy.
   
   To help me understand these strengths, i’d like to see how you answer the next questions:
   
   I take it that doubt, certainty, despair and joy are human thoughts. So my questions are:
   • To what one class of human thoughts do doubt and certainty belong?
   • To what one class of human thoughts do despair and joy belong?
   In other words:
   • What do doubt and certainty have in common?
   • What do dismay and joy have in common?

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

I agree. But there are times in our lives we will, and can fill hopeless. I think thats normal. But we can still survive. How because when all else fails in our life we have one thing, one person, one word. GOD.

That is the only word you can find Alone after in the Catholic Faith. The Trinity, The Father, Son, the Holy Spirit, 3 persons in One being. God Alone, Now that is what faith is, Love, Hope, Happiness, are All one word our Savior. With God all things are not only possible they do happen. Without God everything in this world is worthless.

Yes, and i find it interesting that a person might be in despair about his circumstances, and yet still continue to hope in God. The hope that overcomes despair, in this case, is apparently not a hope that God will take away the circumstances, but a hope that God will give him the strength to take him through them.

And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose.
(Romans 8:28)

 

[fhansen]

I concur. Very well, then, in choosing our best human virtues from the team of Faith and Hope, we should select the Hope or Faith that trusts.

Now i believe a good coach is one who understands his players’ strengths and weaknesses, so he knows how to guard against their weaknesses and exploit their strengths. So, let’s take just a moment to recap what we’ve learned about our best players from the Faith and Hope team and see what insight this gives us about the strengths and weaknesses of each.

You and i and David agreed that the opposite of Faith is doubt and the opposite of Hope is despair. With this truth in mind, we may draw the following conclusions, i think:

1. * The opposite of doubt is certainty, so Faith is (to a greater or lesser degree, depending on the object of said faith) certainty.* The opposite of despair is joyful expectation, so Hope is (to a greater or lesser degree, depending on the object of said hope) joy.
   
   To help me understand these strengths, i’d like to see how you answer the next questions:
   
   I take it that doubt, certainty, despair and joy are human thoughts. So my questions are:
   • To what one class of human thoughts do doubt and certainty belong?
   • To what one class of human thoughts do despair and joy belong?
   In other words:
   • What do doubt and certainty have in common?
   • What do dismay and joy have in common?

1. 
   Not sure where you’re going with this but I’ll give it a try.
   Doubt and certainty are concerned with knowledge while despair and joy are emotions concerned with ones state of happiness.

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

Not sure where you’re going with this but I’ll give it a try.
Doubt and certainty are concerned with knowledge while despair and joy are emotions concerned with ones state of happiness.

You give me too much credit if you are of the opinion that i myself know where we are going! Although i supposed God knows.

Like a walk through a beautiful forest, i rarely can see further than the next turn in the path, or the next question. The joy for me is in the journey, and i am sincerely glad for every step you choose take with me. The fear of getting lost really does not overcome me, for i have faith in St. James advice:

If any of you lacks wisdom, he should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to him.
(James 1)

And i take comfort in the fact that the wise saint did not follow the word anyone with the words good or worthy or intelligent, for i am certainly none of these.

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

I’m reminded of how Socrates described his philosophy as a religious experience. So, as Socrates often did, i will pray wisdom be given you or i and make the request with complete confidence that the God above all the other gods, whom he called the source of all wisdom, will answer the prayer.

We are in a kind of Mass, i think, drawing nearer to God as we try to learn from Him. We are on holy ground with the Holy Spirit, i believe, as we worship the Father in our dialog. I trust the result will be pleasing to Him, for Jesus Himself said that the greatest commandment is to . . .

Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.
(Matthew 22)

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

While it is a great thing for the wise man to know everything, the second best is not to be mistaken about oneself, it seems to me.
(Philebus 19)

I believe my prayer has been answered, though not as expected. When i ask to be given the truth about some idea or other, God often answers by showing me something about myself, instead. It amazes me about how He is often more concerned about me learning about myself than i am!

I’m reminded of the answer i gave you earlier, FH, when i said there had never been a time when i did not believe in the existence of God. You were surprisingly quiet about this remark, which i thought might elicit a response.

I’m thinking, now, that the kind of belief i had when i was a young Catholic was quite different from the kind of belief i have now. When i was a boy, i’d tell others i believed in God and wondered why they did not. When i was asked why i believed, i’d often say that i did not know why i was sure or that i had a strong feeling He was real.

After our dialog, it now seems to me that what i was experiencing as a boy was Hope, rather than Faith. My feelings of conviction were so strong that they amounted to a trust in God, albeit an emotional and perhaps even an irrational one.

After leaving home and the Catholic Faith, i slowly developed a different kind of belief, which was a rational one. I had many conversations with those who did not believe in God and found it odd that i could give sound answers to any objections they had and yet they still chose not to believe. This kind of certainty and trust i was experiencing was based on evidence, rather than emotion, and was what i called Faith. Those who believed (or did not believe) for emotional, rather than rational reasons, i thought unwise. However, now that i’m considering returning to the Catholic Faith, i’m starting to realize the importance of both Hope and Faith, and how both are necessary.

But what about you, FH? Do you think the vague idea i’m forming is getting close to the truth? Is Faith in God a kind of rational certainty or trust, while Hope in God a kind of emotional feeling of certainty or trust?

http://southhillgallery.com/library/A_Man_and_His_Boy_006.jpg

 

[utunumsint]

While it is a great thing for the wise man to know everything, the second best is not to be mistaken about oneself, it seems to me.
(Philebus 19)

I believe my prayer has been answered, though not as expected. When i ask to be given the truth about some idea or other, God often answers by showing me something about myself, instead. It amazes me about how He is often more concerned about me learning about myself than i am!

I’m reminded of the answer i gave you earlier, FH, when i said there had never been a time when i did not believe in the existence of God. You were surprisingly quiet about this remark, which i thought might elicit a response.

I’m thinking, now, that the kind of belief i had when i was a young Catholic was quite different from the kind of belief i have now. When i was a boy, i’d tell others i believed in God and wondered why they did not. When i was asked why i believed, i’d often say that i did not know why i was sure or that i had a strong feeling He was real.

After our dialog, it now seems to me that what i was experiencing as a boy was Hope, rather than Faith. My feelings of conviction were so strong that they amounted to a trust in God, albeit an emotional and perhaps even an irrational one.

After leaving home and the Catholic Faith, i slowly developed a different kind of belief, which was a rational one. I had many conversations with those who did not believe in God and found it odd that i could give sound answers to any objections they had and yet they still chose not to believe. This kind of certainty and trust i was experiencing was based on evidence, rather than emotion, and was what i called Faith. Those who believed (or did not believe) for emotional, rather than rational reasons, i thought unwise. However, now that i’m considering returning to the Catholic Faith, i’m starting to realize the importance of both Hope and Faith, and how both are necessary.

But what about you, FH? Do you think the vague idea i’m forming is getting close to the truth? Is Faith in God a kind of rational certainty or trust, while Hope in God a kind of emotional feeling of certainty or trust?

http://southhillgallery.com/library/A_Man_and_His_Boy_006.jpg

I agree with all of this. Thank you for posting it Soc.

Faith and hope are like this, in my view:

Luke 8:15 But as for the seed that fell on rich soil, they are the ones who, when they have heard the word, embrace it with a generous and good heart, and bear fruit through perseverance.

The seed is the word, the intellectual contents of which we believe and have faith in, and the one who receives the seed with a generous and good heart, is the one who receives it and hopes in that word and makes it his treasure.

Matthew 6:21 For where your treasure is, there also will your heart be.

However, there are so many distractions that compete with our hope, so much so that it can even kill our hope and our faith.

Luke 8:14 As for the seed that fell among thorns, they are the ones who have heard, but as they go along, they are choked by the anxieties and riches and pleasures of life, and they fail to produce mature fruit.

Our hope, and desires must be purified because

Mathew 15:19 For from the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, unchastity, theft, false witness, blasphemy.

and

Mathew 5:5 Blessed are the pure of heart, for they shall see God."

For most of us, this hope is a supernatural gift, just like faith and love are supernatural gifts.

Luke 24:32 Then they said to each other, “Were not our hearts burning (within us) while he spoke to us on the way and opened the scriptures to us?”

Here the disciples on the walk to Emmeaus were despairing, the great sin against hope, and after their encounter with the risen Christ, they received that gift of hope so beautifully described as the burning in their heart.

As Paul says, this encounter with the love of Christ is repeated and confirmed in all of us who have experienced the presense of the Holy Spirit, poured into our hearts.

Romans 5:5 and hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out into our hearts through the holy Spirit that has been given to us.

And this is why hope is such a fortaste of heaven. Because through it, God gives you the following gifts:

Romans 15:13 May the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, so that you may abound in hope by the power of the holy Spirit.

And that is also why Paul can say speaking in the past tense:

Romans 8:24 For in hope we were saved.

But our hope must be placed in the right things, or it will lead us astray. That is why the Mormons who ask you to confirm their false doctrines by checking to see whether your heart burns, have made the mistake of confusing hope and the emotions associated with hope, with confirmation of faith.

God bless,
Ut

 

[Hamlet123]

I agree with all of this. Thank you for posting it Soc.

Faith and hope are like this, in my view:

The seed is the word, the intellectual contents of which we believe and have faith in, and the one who receives the seed with a generous and good heart, is the one who receives it and hopes in that word and makes it his treasure.

However, there are so many distractions that compete with our hope, so much so that it can even kill our hope and our faith.

Our hope, and desires must be purified because

and

For most of us, this hope is a supernatural gift, just like faith and love are supernatural gifts.

Here the disciples on the walk to Emmeaus were despairing, the great sin against hope, and after their encounter with the risen Christ, they received that gift of hope so beautifully described as the burning in their heart.

As Paul says, this encounter with the love of Christ is repeated and confirmed in all of us who have experienced the presense of the Holy Spirit, poured into our hearts.

And this is why hope is such a fortaste of heaven. Because through it, God gives you the following gifts:

And that is also why Paul can say speaking in the past tense:

God bless,
Ut

 

[Hamlet123]

I agree with all of this. Thank you for posting it Soc.

Faith and hope are like this, in my view:

The seed is the word, the intellectual contents of which we believe and have faith in, and the one who receives the seed with a generous and good heart, is the one who receives it and hopes in that word and makes it his treasure.

However, there are so many distractions that compete with our hope, so much so that it can even kill our hope and our faith.

Our hope, and desires must be purified because

and

For most of us, this hope is a supernatural gift, just like faith and love are supernatural gifts.

Here the disciples on the walk to Emmeaus were despairing, the great sin against hope, and after their encounter with the risen Christ, they received that gift of hope so beautifully described as the burning in their heart.

As Paul says, this encounter with the love of Christ is repeated and confirmed in all of us who have experienced the presense of the Holy Spirit, poured into our hearts.

And this is why hope is such a fortaste of heaven. Because through it, God gives you the following gifts:

And that is also why Paul can say speaking in the past tense:

But our hope must be placed in the right things, or it will lead us astray. That is why the Mormons who ask you to confirm every false doctrine by checking to see whether one’s heart burns, have made the mistake of confusing hope and the emotions associated with it, with confirmation of faith.

God bless,
Ut

A “thank you” to Socrates and Ut; Ut for your poignant, stimulating but simple thoughts; Socrates for your uncanny ability and desire to excite participation from those who have so much to offer as you, yourself, do. I hope to see more of your blogs

 

[fhansen]

I’m reminded of the answer i gave you earlier, FH, when i said there had never been a time when i did not believe in the existence of God. You were surprisingly quiet about this remark, which i thought might elicit a response.

I did almost respond to your statement about belief in God-I can’t remember why I decided not to-maybe I forgot. I believe our Churchs’ purpose is to awaken and inform something which already exists inside. The fall resulted in a disposition in us where we’re exiled from God-cut off in some way from Him and even -or as a result-from ourselves. People do have a sense of this Other and whole religions may spring from this sense as we grope in darkness towards answers to lifes’ larger questions. The purpose of our faith is to provide light along this way-to inform the hope we have inside. Or sumpin’ like that.

But what about you, FH? Do you think the vague idea i’m forming is getting close to the truth? Is Faith in God a kind of rational certainty or trust, while Hope in God a kind of emotional feeling of certainty or trust?

I’m not sure-it’s definitely close. One thing is that faith goes beyond what reason can ascertain on its own. The truths we believe may not be unreasonable but nevertheless are not believable without supernatural help. So I guess Christian faith is more like a supernatural certainty, and trust may be implied as well. This doesn’t mean we can’t provide plausible reasons for our faith-only that we can’t hope to prove it by rational argument alone.

If we speak of hope as an emotion this would still need to mean having the experience of confidence within us concerning things which are not unreasonable to hope in but again which go beyond reasons ability to attain to.

But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect, 1Peter 3:15

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

I agree with all of this. Thank you for posting it Soc.

Faith and hope are like this, in my view:

The seed is the word, the intellectual contents of which we believe and have faith in, and the one who receives the seed with a generous and good heart, is the one who receives it and hopes in that word and makes it his treasure.

However, there are so many distractions that compete with our hope, so much so that it can even kill our hope and our faith.

Our hope, and desires must be purified because

and

For most of us, this hope is a supernatural gift, just like faith and love are supernatural gifts.

Here the disciples on the walk to Emmeaus were despairing, the great sin against hope, and after their encounter with the risen Christ, they received that gift of hope so beautifully described as the burning in their heart.

As Paul says, this encounter with the love of Christ is repeated and confirmed in all of us who have experienced the presense of the Holy Spirit, poured into our hearts.

And this is why hope is such a fortaste of heaven. Because through it, God gives you the following gifts:

And that is also why Paul can say speaking in the past tense:

But our hope must be placed in the right things, or it will lead us astray. That is why the Mormons who ask you to confirm their false doctrines by checking to see whether your heart burns, have made the mistake of confusing hope and the emotions associated with hope, with confirmation of faith.

God bless,
Ut

Good thoughts, those! Thank you, Ut.

Very well, then, you at least agree that hope is a kind of non-rational (though not necessarily irrational), intuitive, or emotional feeling of that one should trust God. Faith, on the other hand, is a rational, logical, non-emotional, decision to trust God based on evidence and reason.

Now, let’s see if the others agree.