Hoping for too much from new missal?

[NewEnglandPriest]

Not in my bit of Europe.

OK, I’ll amend: the non-english speaking translations had more accurate translations…

 

[ProVobis]

If no translation is better than any other, why change our current English translation?

Fair question, but the fact anything is being retranslated (and mandated at that) could lead one to question whether the original translation had any credibility to it at all. And if it wasn’t correct then, why now? There were countless of defenders of the “for all men” argument in the consecration and most of them claimed to be correct. Do you expect all of those defenders to express the same enthusiasm now for “for many” verbiage and would anyone go to those same people for instructions?

Aside from that, I use the analogy of the mathematical truth π. One could have translated it as 3.14 in 1970 and several years later someone will have figured its precision to a hundred decimal places. Nice, I like it better and all, but they still haven’t said what π is. Yet π (or natural log e, for that matter) is a truth we just accept and believe in.

In other words, keep the Latin. I’m sure by now, everyone has an idea of what “Credo in unum Deo” or “Hoc est enim Corpus Meum” represents, without dissecting syllables and possible meanings of each word. The Mass shouldn’t be or lead to a competitive game of what’s the correct translation, IMO.

 

[Frankk]

Feel free to use the latin at any time if you’re unsatisfied with the english.

Being the only one in the congregation doing so would disrupt the whole Mass. I might occasionally do this unintentionally but I wouldn’t want to do it as a matter of routine.

 

[Frankk]

Fair question, but the fact anything is being retranslated (and mandated at that) could lead one to question whether the original translation had any credibility to it at all.

But the problem stemmed from Eugene Nida’s concept of dynamic equivalence where translators were encouraged to offer ‘the sense’ of the original language. But at any level how ‘et cum spiritu tuo’ came to be ‘and also with you’ seems to stretch the concept way beyond anything acceptable. In any Latin class such a translation would get zero marks.

He’s got a lot to answer for. Or would have if he hadn’t died in August aged 93!

 

[ProVobis]

Being the only one in the congregation doing so would disrupt the whole Mass. I might occasionally do this unintentionally but I wouldn’t want to do it as a matter of routine.

I know what you mean. I get stares even when I say “Ah-men” instead of “Ay-men.”

 

[ProVobis]

In any Latin class such a translation would get zero marks.

But translating “Dominus vobiscum” as “the Lord BE with you” or “Sursum corda” as “LIFT up your hearts” wouldn’t give you full marks either. I mean if you’re claiming to be literal, then don’t supply words or new ideas where there are none. If it doesn’t make grammatical sense in the receiving language, then so be it. Nuances are why we have different languages. Just saying.

 

[ProVobis]

But at any level how ‘et cum spiritu tuo’ came to be ‘and also with you’ seems to stretch the concept way beyond anything acceptable.

Not that it matters now but the first attempts to translate “Dominus vobiscum/Et cum spiritu tuo” were along the lines of “The SPIRIT of the Lord be with you/And also with you.” but half of that was scrapped. Maybe it was too “dynamic”?

 

[Dirt]

Not that it matters now but the first attempts to translate “Dominus vobiscum/Et cum spiritu tuo” were along the lines of “The SPIRIT of the Lord be with you/And also with you.” but half of that was scrapped. Maybe it was too “dynamic”?

Or to Catholic?

 

[puzzleannie]

Feel free to use the latin at any time if you’re unsatisfied with the english.

:clapping:

 

[Frankk]

But translating “Dominus vobiscum” as “the Lord BE with you”

But it’s common in Latin that in English (and other languages) that the verb ‘to be’ has to be supplied.

As do other things to make sense of the Latin. Pope John Paul II Motto was Pax et Bonum - not easy to make something sensible of it in English, and it only has three words!?

But I’m sure the Lord will accept what’s in the heart - literal or not.

 

[ProVobis]

But it’s common in Latin that in English (and other languages) that the verb ‘to be’ has to be supplied.

Then why don’t we have “Glory be to God in the highest”? Seems as if there is some inconsistency here. It seems as if credible translations should have some sort of pattern of consistency. But that’s my opinion of translations.

 

[fall_fox]

Overall, I quite like the new translation - especially, “Lord I am not worthy that you should enter under my roof…”

I do find the Nicene Creed rather ‘clunky’ though and not a very fluent piece of English.

fall fox

I noticed with the Gloria, we stumbled over the word " people " that first Sunday we tried it, now it is getting smoother, easier to sing.

 

[fall_fox]

Feel free to use the latin at any time if you’re unsatisfied with the english.

Mc, can you say that here. Glad you did. It seems people are setting the new translation up for failure, that won’t happen. The Clergy must get on board to help the Laity cope with their resistance. My Pastor gave us an incite where he stands this morning and he is not on board. I certainly hope that when he starts reading it, that it will grow on him.

 

[JRRTFAN]

Many people are hoping that the new missal will usher in a new age of spirituality and reverence. Liturgical abuse will greatly decrease and people will return to God so to speak. However, since the rest of the.world has a correct translation, how come abuses still occurred and Catholicism is.on the decline. Is too much being expected of new missal?

I personally welcome the new translation with open arms and hope it will be used to good effect. The problem is those who deviate from orthodox Catholic liturgy could make a Tridentine Latin mass and turn it into a Cookie Monster exhibition if they tried. That, I think, is what happened in Europe. Trust me, they can do it. Our 20 something Director of Music has been practicing minimalist responsorial music etc., for months.