Hormones in our water supply

[KathleenElsie]

Sounds like a non-issue to many on many of these sites. Yet if the women of our society and now the men continue to use the available hormones as “birth control” our food and water will not be fit to use.

What does the Bible and Church say about this side issue? How do those that use these hormones for BC and non-medical reasons justify what they are doing to all the other members of society? Is this a reason that ,many of our younger women have trouble conceiving?

Thus the placement in Moral Theology.

 

[Polaris]

Before seeing the word hormones and think Birth control instantly, I suggest you do some further research. Most pesticides and many industrial products resemble estrogen. The majority of these “hormones” are from these sources. So if you want to stop these hormones from appearing in nature we have to stop using pesticides which means less food, which means higher prices and more starving people. This is not a straight foward moral problem that can be stopped with taking the pill.

 

[KathleenElsie]

Before seeing the word hormones and think Birth control instantly, I suggest you do some further research. Most pesticides and many industrial products resemble estrogen. The majority of these “hormones” are from these sources. So if you want to stop these hormones from appearing in nature we have to stop using pesticides which means less food, which means higher prices and more starving people. This is not a straight foward moral problem that can be stopped with taking the pill.

But limited to use of things necessary and not convience to many.

 

[THurifer2]

Being from the midwest and living LITERALLY in the middle of a cornfield…(if I dashed out my back door I would be standing in a 600 acre cornfield in 20 paces…yes it is THAT close) it causes me to wonder…I know the pesticides used on the field are only applied once per year and the pesticide that is used is called permethryn.
Permethrin is degraded by sunlight, which limits its persistence in the environment. Its half-life is less than 30 days in soil, and the chemical is readily metabolized by soil microorganisms. Having been raised in the worlds far and away largest agricultural belt and having been raised in a farming community I assure you that we aint puttin hormones in the ground. The herbicide that we use is called glycophosphate (which is commonly known as round up). Glycophosphate has a slightly longer Half life in colder climates but where I live it breaks down rapidly due to 90-100 weather in July. THe ONLY other thing we put down on our fields is Anhydrous Amonia…which provides the nitrogen for corn…Anyhydrous is usually applied in the spring prior to planting So the crops have a good nitrogen base to utilize. If one looked at the percentage of Land in my state that is cropland (90% is working agrucultrual land) it is amazing to realize nitrate levels are not higher than other states. Most of our drinkig water comes from deep wells and aquifers…We aint getin hormones in our water from contraceptives…at least here.

 

[BlestOne]

I also live in the midwest. I too can see corn fields all around me 99% of the time. Children go into puberty earlier here because of the growth hormones in the beef. It has a short half life but since we are here where they are grown and slaughtered, we get our meat alot fresher than on the coasts. By the time we eat it, it still has growth hormones in it… but the typical customer living further away… doesn’t feel the effects because of it’s half life.

 

[wifeandmomoftwo]

Sounds like a non-issue to many on many of these sites. Yet if the women of our society and now the men continue to use the available hormones as “birth control” our food and water will not be fit to use.

What does the Bible and Church say about this side issue? How do those that use these hormones for BC and non-medical reasons justify what they are doing to all the other members of society? Is this a reason that ,many of our younger women have trouble conceiving?

Thus the placement in Moral Theology.

Is infertility really that big of a problem?

 

[Polaris]

Being from the midwest and living LITERALLY in the middle of a cornfield…(if I dashed out my back door I would be standing in a 600 acre cornfield in 20 paces…yes it is THAT close) it causes me to wonder…I know the pesticides used on the field are only applied once per year and the pesticide that is used is called permethryn.
Permethrin is degraded by sunlight, which limits its persistence in the environment. Its half-life is less than 30 days in soil, and the chemical is readily metabolized by soil microorganisms. Having been raised in the worlds far and away largest agricultural belt and having been raised in a farming community I assure you that we aint puttin hormones in the ground. The herbicide that we use is called glycophosphate (which is commonly known as round up). Glycophosphate has a slightly longer Half life in colder climates but where I live it breaks down rapidly due to 90-100 weather in July. THe ONLY other thing we put down on our fields is Anhydrous Amonia…which provides the nitrogen for corn…Anyhydrous is usually applied in the spring prior to planting So the crops have a good nitrogen base to utilize. If one looked at the percentage of Land in my state that is cropland (90% is working agrucultrual land) it is amazing to realize nitrate levels are not higher than other states. Most of our drinkig water comes from deep wells and aquifers…We aint getin hormones in our water from contraceptives…at least here.

Yes, yes you are.

Both of those are synthetic estrogens or boost estrogen production in animals.

For example
jstage.jst.go.jp/article/jrd/51/2/51_201/_article

And there are many more.

How much do you apply and how much is needed by a receptor in your body to have an effect? We are talking about hormone levels its not very high.

Also do you understand what half life means?

1 gallon breaks down two a 1/2 gallon and then 1/4 and then 1/8th. It stays in the environment for a long time on top of that you may have bioaccumulation. meaning your body stores it.

 

[THurifer2]

I also live in the midwest. I too can see corn fields all around me 99% of the time. Children go into puberty earlier here because of the growth hormones in the beef. It has a short half life but since we are here where they are grown and slaughtered, we get our meat alot fresher than on the coasts. By the time we eat it, it still has growth hormones in it… but the typical customer living further away… doesn’t feel the effects because of it’s half life.

THe beef I eat does not have growth hormones. But with that in mind I would like you to point me in the direction that provides the documented evidence that children go into puberty sooner in the midwest. However since there is no concrete evidence on either way…I choose to eat organic beef which is easy to get since family raises most of their beef without hormones.

 

[THurifer2]

Yes, yes you are.

Both of those are synthetic estrogens or boost estrogen production in animals.

For example
jstage.jst.go.jp/article/jrd/51/2/51_201/_article

And there are many more.

How much do you apply and how much is needed by a receptor in your body to have an effect? We are talking about hormone levels its not very high.

Also do you understand what half life means?

1 gallon breaks down two a 1/2 gallon and then 1/4 and then 1/8th. It stays in the environment for a long time on top of that you may have bioaccumulation. meaning your body stores it.

Yes I am ? Permethryn is a Contraceptive? Glycophosphate is a contraceptive. Dont tell the drug companies!!!

The article you gave me used the word potential…and it used the word RATS not animals…it also didn’t give ANY information on how much permethrin was administered to the Rats.

THe study says the Following

although these assays are still being validated by the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD).

These results suggest that permethrin might have estrogen-like effects on female rats, but antiandrogen-like effects on males.

 

[THurifer2]

.

For example
jstage.jst.go.jp/article/jrd/51/2/51_201/_article

.

In regards to the article…like I said It uses the word MIGHT…

Ingesting straight permethryn? Via orally or injection?

800mg\KG???

This claim MIGHT have some legs if the Rats were given tap water from my faucet to drink instead of being injected with the agent. AND the rats were only 18 days old!!!

HOW MANY HUMAN BEINGS GET HORMONES FROM BREASTMILK at that age!!:!?!?

If you gave the baby rats some of my tap water it has Vitamin K in it harmless and needed if consumed in that manner…if you injected them with 800mg/kg of vitamin K it would kill them.

 

[KathleenElsie]

This “prove it” is something I did not want to get into. My question for this thread was is it moral for us to potentially harm others through the use of chemicals that are not necessary for the actual health of human beings.

I am not a conspiracy theorist. In our life style my family and I try our best to limit our harm to the world that God created and gave us Dominion over.

Farmers needs to use some things to provide the world with food. There are some things that are not needed only convenient for mostly the large corporate farming conglomerates. The family run farms in my area (we live in the midst of a rural family farm area) use only what they need to to provide us with the food we need.

But a fatter chicken, an extra gallon of milk, bigger beef cattle, farmed fish all come with a possible heath cost. So where do we draw the line?

We are asked by many to stop purchasing big cars, trucks and vans because of the danger to the environment. We don’t know if this warming cycle is man made or not. But it is a BIG thing for many and it does not hurt to watch how we use this wonderful earth of Gods.

Yet, very few people make the same fuss about the things we can actually do. Like limit how much we dump into and onto the earth that is not really necessary.

We got rid of DDT (a useful chemical that could save many lives) in developing countries. Yet we consume antibiotic infused foods and can now not rely on those same antibiotics to kill the bad super germs. We use chemicals to clean our showers so we don’t have to do it. We use so much that we don’t have any idea about what the actual harm will be for years or decades.

But, we do know that the fish in our lakes and rivers are now asexual or bi-sexual and the rate of autism is now around 1 in 166 of children born. Sorry, but, this is not from the globe warming, but in the things we eat and put into our bodies.

 

[THurifer2]

This “prove it” is something I did not want to get into. My question for this thread was is it moral for us to potentially harm others through the use of chemicals that are not necessary for the actual health of human beings.

I am not a conspiracy theorist. In our life style my family and I try our best to limit our harm to the world that God created and gave us Dominion over.

Farmers needs to use some things to provide the world with food. There are some things that are not needed only convenient for mostly the large corporate farming conglomerates. The family run farms in my area (we live in the midst of a rural family farm area) use only what they need to to provide us with the food we need.

But a fatter chicken, an extra gallon of milk, bigger beef cattle, farmed fish all come with a possible heath cost. So where do we draw the line?

We are asked by many to stop purchasing big cars, trucks and vans because of the danger to the environment. We don’t know if this warming cycle is man made or not. But it is a BIG thing for many and it does not hurt to watch how we use this wonderful earth of Gods.

Yet, very few people make the same fuss about the things we can actually do. Like limit how much we dump into and onto the earth that is not really necessary.

We got rid of DDT (a useful chemical that could save many lives) in developing countries. Yet we consume antibiotic infused foods and can now not rely on those same antibiotics to kill the bad super germs. We use chemicals to clean our showers so we don’t have to do it. We use so much that we don’t have any idea about what the actual harm will be for years or decades.

But, we do know that the fish in our lakes and rivers are now asexual or bi-sexual and the rate of autism is now around 1 in 166 of children born. Sorry, but, this is not from the globe warming, but in the things we eat and put into our bodies.

DON’t worry nothing will be proven using an invalidated study that has no conrols using an obscure Asian State run university.

18 day old rats being injected with a Farm chemical sounds like a bad idea even to a 4th grader.

 

[KathleenElsie]

In regards to the article…like I said It uses the word MIGHT…

Ingesting straight permethryn? Via orally or injection?

800mg\KG???

This claim MIGHT have some legs if the Rats were given tap water from my faucet to drink instead of being injected with the agent. AND the rats were only 18 days old!!!

HOW MANY HUMAN BEINGS GET HORMONES FROM BREASTMILK at that age!!:!?!?

If you gave the baby rats some of my tap water it has Vitamin K in it harmless and needed if consumed in that manner…if you injected them with 800mg/kg of vitamin K it would kill them.

I am old enough to remember the fact that PBCs were introduced into the food chain and many women were advised to not breast feed their children because of it. Some of the farms near us were forced to kill their herds and the meat was not fit for human or animal consumption. The soil had to be removed in some cases and some some farms were not longer alloed to be used for years.

Babies get the hormones that the mothers produce and ingest. I know when the mother eats garlic the baby does not always like the milk. Mothers are told not to drink or take some drugs as it passes to the baby via the milk.

So caution is what is needed not denial.

 

[BlestOne]

Kathleen you have many good points. I think the key to anything is moderation. Even carrots cause cancer… if you eat 3 lbs a day for like 40 yrs… Even our faith tells us moderation… say like for consuming alcohol. In moderation it is actually good for us… too much and you can die.

When a family from Japan moved to my rural little midwest town, they insisted on bottled water. I pointed out that our water is fluoridated and probably healthier than the bottled stuff as there isn’t alot of other chemicals in it like chlorine. I even showed him where to find the annual water report on our village’s web site. The man insisted only bottled water… sure, he probably isn’t getting some of the stuff we should avoid, but his dentist told him the same since he has had a terrible time with his teeth.

As for hormones in the water… I don’t even know if they test for it, but it would seem to me that they should. Can it be filtered out?

There are other things that concern me more than hormones though… current research has indicated that a possible cause of Alzheimer’s could be linked to metals in our water… I won’t quote any research, but lets just say a friend that is a dr told me of this finding.

Not really slowly but definitely surely we are poisoning our food and water supply. When I lived in the Great Lakes, we weren’t allowed to eat the fish from the lakes when pregnant because of mercury. Soon they will recommend that children don’t eat it… then everyone. Why not fix the problem? Well because it costs money… and it isn’t profitable. At the same time, we are trying to produce more food with growth hormones so that we can feed more people… so when they discover how bad this is… well you know the cycle.

When more people see the problem…or somebody related to a senator gets sick… then something will get done. What we can do for now is modify our diets. Not eat as much meat, grow our own produce. Eat a wide variety of foods. Use environmentally friendly cleaning supplies and natural pesticides. There are a million different things you can do to help protect your family.

 

[KathleenElsie]

Kathleen you have many good points. I think the key to anything is moderation. Even carrots cause cancer… if you eat 3 lbs a day for like 40 yrs… Even our faith tells us moderation… say like for consuming alcohol. In moderation it is actually good for us… too much and you can die.

When a family from Japan moved to my rural little midwest town, they insisted on bottled water. I pointed out that our water is fluoridated and probably healthier than the bottled stuff as there isn’t alot of other chemicals in it like chlorine. I even showed him where to find the annual water report on our village’s web site. The man insisted only bottled water… sure, he probably isn’t getting some of the stuff we should avoid, but his dentist told him the same since he has had a terrible time with his teeth.

As for hormones in the water… I don’t even know if they test for it, but it would seem to me that they should. Can it be filtered out?

There are other things that concern me more than hormones though… current research has indicated that a possible cause of Alzheimer’s could be linked to metals in our water… I won’t quote any research, but lets just say a friend that is a dr told me of this finding.

Not really slowly but definitely surely we are poisoning our food and water supply. When I lived in the Great Lakes, we weren’t allowed to eat the fish from the lakes when pregnant because of mercury. Soon they will recommend that children don’t eat it… then everyone. Why not fix the problem? Well because it costs money… and it isn’t profitable. At the same time, we are trying to produce more food with growth hormones so that we can feed more people… so when they discover how bad this is… well you know the cycle.

When more people see the problem…or somebody related to a senator gets sick… then something will get done. What we can do for now is modify our diets. Not eat as much meat, grow our own produce. Eat a wide variety of foods. Use environmentally friendly cleaning supplies and natural pesticides. There are a million different things you can do to help protect your family.

I agree that all things in moderation. We do what we can and pray about what we can’t. But, here is the public outrage on the things that can be done and yet are not?

 

[THurifer2]

There are other things that concern me more than hormones though… current research has indicated that a possible cause of Alzheimer’s could be linked to metals in our water… I won’t quote any research, but lets just say a friend that is a dr told me of this finding.

After working in Geriatrics for 2 decades I will say that the evidence leaning towards metals and Alzheimers is outweighed by the virus theory quite a bit. Both virus and metals theory are weak due to the fact that spouses of Alzheimers pts do not get the disease at a higher rate than others. Virus and metals both would show up in households more prevalently.

 

[Polaris]

Hey THurifer2

Sigh I forget science education is somewhat lacking in this world.

First Humans are Animals and Mammals we evolved or were “created” with a very similiar plan to the rest of the mammals including rats. When we test for drugs, for anything, one of the steps is Rats because they have similiar systems to us. We can not test toxicity effects directly on Humans because of silly human rights. I know, its sad (sarc) The Nazis did it though.

Second In the world of science we dont like definitives, its not a religion were God comes down and gives you a direct answer in a pretty bow. In science you have to think and figure things out and question question question. We dont trust the answer from God we have to use evidence. Also one experiment does not prove anything because there are a lot of factors at work here. So most people say support or even maybe.

Third I only quickly grabbed one reference you want some more references here you go

(Glycophosphate = Atrazine)

Title: Atrazine-induced aromatase expression is SF-1 dependent: Implications for endocrine disruption in wildlife and reproductive cancers in humans
Author(s): Fan WQ (Fan, WuQiang), Yanase T (Yanase, Toshihiko), Morinaga H (Morinaga, Hidetaka), Ondo S (Ondo, Shigeki), Okabe T (Okabe, Taijiro), Nomura M (Nomura, Masatoshi), Komatsu T (Komatsu, Tomoko), Morohashi KI (Morohashi, Ken-Ichirou), Hayes TB (Hayes, Tyrone B.), Takayanagi R (Takayanagi, Ryoichi), Nawata H (Nawata, Hajime)
Source: ENVIRONMENTAL HEALTH PERSPECTIVES 115 (5): 720-727 MAY 2007
Document Type: Article
Language: English
Cited References: 92 Times Cited: 0
Abstract: BACKGROUND: Atrazine is a potent endocrine disruptor that increases aromatase expression in some human cancer cell lines. The mechanism involves the inhibition of phosphodiesterase and subsequent elevation of cAMP.
METHODS: We compared steroidogenic factor 1 (ST-1) expression in atrazine responsive and non-responsive cell lines and transfected SF-1 into non-responsive cell lines to assess SF-1’s role in atrazine-induced aromatase. We used a luciferase reporter driven by the SF-1-dependent aromatase promoter (ArPlI) to examine activation of this promoter by atrazine and the related simazine. We mutated the SF-1 binding site to confirm the role of SF-1. We also examined effects of 55 other chemicals. Finally, we examined the ability of atrazine and simazine to bind to SF-1 and enhance SF-1 binding to ArPII.

RESULTS: Atrazine-responsive adrenal carcinoma cells (H295R) expressed 54 times more SF-1 than nonresponsive ovarian granulosa KGN cells. Exogenous SF-I conveyed atrazine-responsiveness to otherwise nonresponsive KGN and NIH/3T3 cells. Atrazine induced binding of SF-I to chromatin and mutation of the SF-1 binding site in ArPll eliminated SF-1 binding and atrazine-responsiveness in H295R cells. Out of 55 chemicals examined, only atrazine, simazine, and benzopyrene induced luciferase via ArPll. Atrazine bound directly to SF-1, showing that atrazine is a ligand for this ‘’ orphan ‘’ receptor.

CONCLUSION: The current findings are consistent with atrazine’s endocrine-disrupting effects in fish, amphibians, and reptiles; the induction of mammary and prostate cancer in laboratory rodents; and correlations between atrazine and similar reproductive cancers in humans. This study highlights the importance of atrazine a, a risk factor in endocrine disruption in wildlife and reproductive cancers in laboratory rodents and humans.

Endocrine is the system that has to do with hormones incase you dont know

Binding and activation of the seven-transmembrane estrogen receptor GPR30 by environmental estrogens: A potential novel mechanism of endocrine disruption
Author(s): Thomas P (Thomas, Peter), Dong J (Dong, Jing)

Source: JOURNAL OF STEROID BIOCHEMISTRY AND MOLECULAR BIOLOGY 102 (1-5): 175-179 Sp. Iss. SI, DEC 2006

Title: Experimental parameters affecting sensitivity and specificity of a yeast assay for estrogenic compounds: results of an interlaboratory validation exercise
ANALYTICAL AND BIOANALYTICAL CHEMISTRY 386 (5): 1419-1428 NOV 2006

Estrogenicity of pyrethroid insecticide metabolites
JOURNAL OF ENVIRONMENTAL MONITORING 8 (1): 197-202 JAN 2006

Evaluation of estrogenic activities of pesticides using an in vitro reporter gene assay

INTERNATIONAL JOURNAL OF ENVIRONMENTAL HEALTH RESEARCH 15 (4): 271-280 AUG 2005

Estrogenicity of pyrethroid insecticide metabolites
JOURNAL OF TOXICOLOGY AND ENVIRONMENTAL HEALTH-PART A-CURRENT ISSUES 68 (23-24): 2175-2186 DEC 10 2005

If you want more just do a little research go to a journal search engine and put in you search factors. You will get more. A Lot more.

 

[BlestOne]

I agree that all things in moderation. We do what we can and pray about what we can’t. But, here is the public outrage on the things that can be done and yet are not?

Like I said… when some senator feels the effect there will be outrage and action… so much for us little peons…

 

[Liberanosamalo]

I have read more than one article on the excretion of hormones by women on the pill into our water supply. Modern purification techniques apparently can’t completely break these down. Multiply that by millions and wonder about the increased supply of estrogen circulated in our drinking water.

Sin, even private sin, ultimately has social consequences. It isn’t just a woman’s body when she is excreting her hormones into the public water supply.

 

[KathleenElsie]

I have read more than one article on the excretion of hormones by women on the pill into our water supply. Modern purification techniques apparently can’t completely break these down. Multiply that by millions and wonder about the increased supply of estrogen circulated in our drinking water.

Sin, even private sin, ultimately has social consequences. It isn’t just a woman’s body when she is excreting her hormones into the public water supply.

Water sweet precious water. I remember a part of a poem.

Water water everywhere and not a drop to drink.