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Lycorth
Guest
Personally, I’m glad to get any penance, because that means I’ve been absolved 
- Status
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LilyM
Guest
Well, if memory serves the priest can absolve you without being obliged to impose a penance on you. So all you need are those precious words ‘I absolve you …’Personally, I’m glad to get any penance, because that means I’ve been absolved
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Melchior_1
Guest
Good question, although Lily covered it pretty well in her post.
Also, another way to look at it is the penance for THOSE sins is still being worked on, but it doesn’t cover any new sins, so those need to be confessed too.
And even when I’m under the state mortal sin, this penance still does great things for me (it’s Adoration after all).
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Sir_Knight
Guest
Once a priest told me that there would be no penance because I gave him such a good laugh while confessing on particular sin.Well, if memory serves the priest can absolve you without being obliged to impose a penance on you. So all you need are those precious words ‘I absolve you …’
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Usbek_de_Perse
Guest
You shouldn’t be saying such things about the Episcopal church.
I am Episcopalian, let me do it.
But seriously folks, you would be hard pressed to find an Episcopal parish where the Holy Eucharist is treated in such a way. This includes those parishes where the priest is a woman or a homosexual or both. It just doesn’t happen.
I, frankly, would be happy to hear a preacher underscore areas where there is commanality of belief between Christians and Muslims. Muslims believe in the Virgin Birth of Jesus, though they have no similar belief about the birth of Muhammad.
I am Episcopalian, let me do it.
But seriously folks, you would be hard pressed to find an Episcopal parish where the Holy Eucharist is treated in such a way. This includes those parishes where the priest is a woman or a homosexual or both. It just doesn’t happen.
I, frankly, would be happy to hear a preacher underscore areas where there is commanality of belief between Christians and Muslims. Muslims believe in the Virgin Birth of Jesus, though they have no similar belief about the birth of Muhammad.
You sure it wasn’t an Episcopal church?Nah, jk. Seriously, I would be finding out what was up. I do know some good Muslims, but I would still be keeping Christ and Christianity as the focus of the Mass. I would’ve been uncomfortable as well.
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bmadamsberry
Guest
Really? Because I’ve seen plenty of Episcopalian Churches where the “Eucharist” is treated badly.
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Faith1960
Guest
LOL!
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Deb_H
Guest
No . The fact that we sin is a sure sign we are apart from God to some degree . So prayer as penance brings us right back to the Cross and our beloved Jesus .
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GIR
Guest
Here’s what VII has to say about Muslims:
The Church regards with esteem also the Muslims. They adore the one God, living and subsisting in himself; merciful and all-powerful, the Creator of heaven and earth, who has spoken to men; they take pains to submit wholeheartedly to even his inscrutable decrees, just as Abraham, with whom the faith of Islam takes pleasure in linking itself, submitted to God.
Notice a few things
-It says “Muslims”, not “Islam”
-"…with whom the faith of Islam takes pleasure in linking itself…" It never says that Islam in fact has the slightest connection with Abraham, just that it likes to think so.
While VII also says there is good to be found in other religions. That stuff is only good insofar as it agrees with Catholicism, and let’s not forget that in the case of Islam, most if not all of it’s praiseworthy aspects, including Monotheism itself, are “borrowed” whole-cloth from Christianity.
The Church regards with esteem also the Muslims. They adore the one God, living and subsisting in himself; merciful and all-powerful, the Creator of heaven and earth, who has spoken to men; they take pains to submit wholeheartedly to even his inscrutable decrees, just as Abraham, with whom the faith of Islam takes pleasure in linking itself, submitted to God.
Notice a few things
-It says “Muslims”, not “Islam”
-"…with whom the faith of Islam takes pleasure in linking itself…" It never says that Islam in fact has the slightest connection with Abraham, just that it likes to think so.
While VII also says there is good to be found in other religions. That stuff is only good insofar as it agrees with Catholicism, and let’s not forget that in the case of Islam, most if not all of it’s praiseworthy aspects, including Monotheism itself, are “borrowed” whole-cloth from Christianity.
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Advocatus_Fidei
Guest
This priest and all priests like him should be forbidden from preaching and I will tell you why.
When I was teenager I strongly considered converting to Islam precisely because of priests like this, when your whole parish is liberal and you see Muslims taking their faith so seriously and standing up for their belief’s and then the priest tells you how great Muslims are and how Islam is just like Christianity and how they still worship the same God and still go to heaven what teenager would not become interested in Islam?
Islam is a false religion that teaches errors about God and priest who says good things about false religions is guilty of leading souls to hell.
When I was teenager I strongly considered converting to Islam precisely because of priests like this, when your whole parish is liberal and you see Muslims taking their faith so seriously and standing up for their belief’s and then the priest tells you how great Muslims are and how Islam is just like Christianity and how they still worship the same God and still go to heaven what teenager would not become interested in Islam?
Islam is a false religion that teaches errors about God and priest who says good things about false religions is guilty of leading souls to hell.
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Sir_Knight
Guest
I find it rather odd that our CCC says that when for CENTURIES, the Church has taught the exact opposite …Our posts just crossed in cyber space
Again, there doesn’t seem to be much in what he said that’s out of line, but then by your own admission you ‘tuned out’ of what he was saying so I guess we’ll never really know whether he was out of line or not.
Here’s what the Catechism has to say:
841 The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”[330]
842 The Church’s bond with non-Christian religions is in the first place the common origin and end of the human race: All nations form but one community. This is so because all stem from the one stock which God created to people the entire earth, and also because all share a common destiny, namely God. His providence, evident goodness, and saving designs extend to all against the day when the elect are gathered together in the holy city. . .[331]
843 "T**he Catholic Church recognizes in other religions that search, among shadows and images, for the God who is unknown yet near since he gives life and breath and all things and wants all men to be saved. Thus, the Church considers all goodness and truth found in these religions as ‘a preparation for the Gospel and given by him who enlightens all men that they may at length have life.’ **
*]“Whoever wishes to be saved, needs above all to hold the Catholic faith; unless each one preserves this whole and inviolate, he will without a doubt perish in eternity.” (SOURCE: Denzinger’s Enchiridion Symbolorum; The Sources of Catholic Dogma; 30th edition, # 39)
*]“If anyone, however, either suggests or believes or presumes to teach contrary to this faith, let him know that he is condemned and also anathematized (means excommunicated) according to the opinion of the same Fathers… Consider (therefore) the fact that whoever has not been in the peace and unity of the Church, cannot have the Lord. [Gal. 3:7]” (SOURCE: Denzinger’s Enchiridion Symbolorum; The Sources of Catholic Dogma; 30th edition, # 246)
*]“By the heart we believe and by the mouth we confess the one Church, not of heretics but the Holy Roman, catholic, and Apostolic (Church) outside which we believe that no one is saved.” (SOURCE: D.E.S.; The Sources of Catholic Dogma; 30th edition, # 423)
*]"…we declare, say, define, and proclaim to every human creature that they by necessity for salvation are entirely subject to the Roman Pontiff." (SOURCE: D.E.S.; The Sources of Catholic Dogma; 30th edition, # 469)
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MarkThompson
Guest
None of those quotations is remotely contradicted by the passages you quoted from the Catechism. You’d see this more clearly if you tried to spell out an actual argument in that direction, rather that just posting quotes and hoping that they can shoulder the work.
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Feanor2
Guest
So you are saying you don’t believe that the teaching of the CCC is correct here? I believe that Popes during the medieval period said all kinds of crazy things. The CCC is our current frame of reference regarding doctrine.
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Sir_Knight
Guest
Infallible Church dogma can never be contradicted or changed.
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Sir_Knight
Guest
The way that I read the CCC is that those from ANY religion can be saved if they try their best to be good. The above quotes seem to indicate otherwise as does the Encyclical of Pope Gregory XVI (August 15, 1832) …
Another abundant source of the evils with which the Church is afflicted at present: indifferentism. This perverse opinion is spread on all sides by the fraud of the wicked who claim that it is possible to obtain the eternal salvation of the soul by the profession of any kind of religion, as long as morality is maintained. Surely, in so clear a matter, you will drive this deadly error far from the people committed to your care. With the admonition of the apostle that “there is one God, one faith, one baptism” may those fear who contrive the notion that the safe harbor of salvation is open to persons of any religion whatever. They should consider the testimony of Christ Himself that “those who are not with Christ are against Him,” and that they disperse unhappily who do not gather with Him. Therefore “without a doubt, they will perish forever, unless they hold the Catholic faith whole and inviolate.” Let them hear Jerome who, while the Church was torn into three parts by schism, tells us that whenever someone tried to persuade him to join his group he always exclaimed: “He who is for the See of Peter is for me.” A schismatic flatters himself falsely if he asserts that he, too, has been washed in the waters of regeneration. Indeed Augustine would reply to such a man: “The branch has the same form when it has been cut off from the vine; but of what profit for it is the form, if it does not live from the root?”
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MarkThompson
Guest
But all you’ve done is say, “The way I read the CCC is…,” and then make up a statement not at all contained in it. That’s not a “way of reading” something, that’s a theory, a possible extrapolation based on a number of unstated assumptions.
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Feanor2
Guest
So Sir Knight,
You’re more Catholic than the Pope? Are you in SSPX?
You’re more Catholic than the Pope? Are you in SSPX?
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Sir_Knight
Guest
How do you read that passage of the CCC?
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Sir_Knight
Guest
And that is suppose to mean what? Oh, and for the record, declared dogmas are infallible. The CCC, while it contains infallible teachings, is in and of itself not an infallible document.
I don’t even know what that is.
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Chaldean_Rite
Guest
Oh I wouldn’t worry, we’ll have plenty of time in Purgatory to do the proper Penance, God-willing we get there.
- Status