Horrible experience at Messianic Jewish cong.

[Darran]

I have to really congratulate you on speaking against them, it takes a very strong person to do that. In the true sense of the word, you really were acting like a warrior.

Don’t worry, you did your best, words (especially presented bravely) effect people more than you or even they themselves will care to notice.

 

[frankpetrucci83]

since you said that it reminded me of something important that I had completely forgotten, this can be said to anyone who claims all christians are the body of Christ…in the pastor’s sermon he preached an invisible body that all christians belonged to…when the woman outside stopped me I had told her that “if someone strikes your foot isn’t it your head that cries out? Therefore, if the Catholic Church belongs to Christ’s body, then is it not Christ who cries out when you attack it? This is true even by your own preaching.”

 

[Julia_Mae]

you may of not fully read or understood what I wrote…my experience did not happen in a catholic church, i had only went to the messianic service b/c i had read an article about a rabbi preaching in a church

Oh, I fully read it. Thanks for clarifying. I have the same advice: bowling. Bridge? Great game for husband and wife and another couple. Tennis is good, keeps you fit. You were asking about friends… Seriously, bowling is making a comeback amongst the young. Nice group of people, no one talks about religion, exercise, a couple a beers usually…

sorry… I just read your link, so you live in the Ukraine? No bowling then, I guess…

 

[Darran]

since you said that it reminded me of something important that I had completely forgotten, this can be said to anyone who claims all christians are the body of Christ…in the pastor’s sermon he preached an invisible body that all christians belonged to…when the woman outside stopped me I had told her that “if someone strikes your foot isn’t it your head that cries out? Therefore, if the Catholic Church belongs to Christ’s body, then is it not Christ who cries out when you attack it? This is true even by your own preaching.”

That’s actually brilliant, I’m going to remember that one.

You really came up with that at the time?

 

[frankpetrucci83]

thanks for the advice, but if one is friends with a heretic, how can you trust them…there is no common basis for morality…the most that can come out of it is associates, like people who exercise together for example…I think the young voices are the ones that need to be heard the most when it comes to religion, the Pope is calling the youth to not be afraid to stand up for the Gospel, I’d like to follow his message, it is very inspiring

 

[frankpetrucci83]

That’s actually brilliant, I’m going to remember that one.

You really came up with that at the time?

yes, but I can’t take credit, I got the idea from one of Fulton Sheen’s sermons when he makes a similiar analogy

 

[frankpetrucci83]

since you liked that one, I’ll share another…the one time my friend tried trapping me by saying “did you know there was more than 10 commandments in the bible”, (at the time I did not know where he was going with this, I only learned later that it was an opening to an anti-catholic accusation…) I immediately answered him by saying, actually there is only 1, “Love God with all your mind, heart, and soul, and love your neighbor as yourself. Every other commandment stems from this one”

 

[MorningSong51]

MorningSong51

Originally Posted by frankpetrucci83:

…it isn’t converting the other person that determines a “win” but rather following God’s Will, as long as you stick up for the truth and faithfully represent Christ, there is no way to lose

Very true…if others can actually keep that thought in their mind.

 

[MorningSong51]

Oh, I fully read it. Thanks for clarifying. I have the same advice: bowling. Bridge? Great game for husband and wife and another couple. Tennis is good, keeps you fit. You were asking about friends… Seriously, bowling is making a comeback amongst the young. Nice group of people, no one talks about religion, exercise, a couple a beers usually…

sorry… I just read your link, so you live in the Ukraine? No bowling then, I guess…

Hey Julia Mae;

I’m glad he clarified his post, also. However, and not to get anyone wrong here, many Catholics do get invited to attend services outside the faith, although it may not be encouraged , this does happen. However, this opportunity gives us a chance to invite our friends and sometimes family members (who don’t attend church or perhaps do - but want to know more about the Catholic church) to attend our services.

Also, the church - and to encourage participation, does have many activities where the young and the older crowd can have a way to meet either weekly or once a month. Like I said- encouraging others to be “invited” is away for them to see what the church provides. I know that, no matter where a Catholic - may live, they are (always!) asked by other members to participate…I know that’s not frowned upon.

 

[frankpetrucci83]

well at least a bad experience there has led to a good one on here, I actually would advise against going to other church services unless your faith is EXTREMELY strong on that particular day, and NEVER substitute your sunday obligation for a service at another so called church…the reason I advise against it because I have done it many times, and never has a good thing came out of it…in fact, it has always been bad that has came out of it…the one time my friend was attending services at an assembly of God congregation to overcome an addiction…he had just gotten out of jail and wanted to stay clean. So I went there 2 or 3 times to support him after the service at a meeting downstairs…During this meeting ppl would talk about their sins almost like confession and then just talk about random bible related stuff…I think the pastor saw me as a threat to his authority and the whole congregation and after I shared what was actually only a venial sin, they spread it via gossip and tried to scandalize me…after that I invited my friend to come to a bible study ran by a priest…he refused and 2 weeks later ended up back on heroin…just one story of many involving so called churches like that…good opportunities in theory, but if anyone has had success doing this please inform me!

 

[ringil]

In my short run-in this the Messianic Jewish folks I noticed a lot of anti Catholic sentiment.

 

[KathleenGee]

The Messianic Jews have alot of the same issues as Protestants in regards to authority.

But reading your beginning post, it made me hold my breath reading it through…it made me think of a comment by a nice Jewish person…when you have 2 Jews together, you have 3 arguing…

Going beyond that point…give yourself a break and visit…www.hebrewcatholic.org.

It is a breath of fresh air…and so amazing to study some Hebrew Catholic scholars in their teachings on Israel and the Church. Hebrew is the word they prefer to name themselves as these were the devout of Israel. David Moss is the founder; I have a copy of Fr Friedman’s book ‘Jewish Identity’…and am an associate…receiving their very informative newsletters…David Moss’ sister, Rosalind, first became an evangelical Christian before converting…and now is starting a religious congregation for women.

They are under the jurisdiction of the Archbishop of St. Louis. Their newsletters also show Catholic priests who are Jewish.

Finally, I just read this morning that the rabbinical canon does not accept the book of Maccabees…but the Catholic Church does…and the Eastern Catholic Church has August 1 as the feastday for the Martyrs of Maccabees…and–the Jewish people began to rediscover the witness of the Maccabees through the Catholic Church and reinserted Hannukah as part of their annual celebrated customs!!!

The Jews can thank the Catholic Church for Hannukah!!!

 

[KathleenGee]

After reading this first post…it makes me want to not tread on Messianic vs Catholic discussions…just as I have learned in discussing or even asking dumb questions or comments to the Orthodox…things come back to bite you.

Merry Christmas!

 

[frankpetrucci83]

someone correct me if I am wrong, but my understanding is that Messianic Jews started around 50 years ago when Catholic Missionaries were converting Jews into Christianity

 

[Irish_Polock]

someone correct me if I am wrong, but my understanding is that Messianic Jews started around 50 years ago when Catholic Missionaries were converting Jews into Christianity

It is my understanding, that Messianic Judaism came from the evangelical crowd. Jews who converted to Catholicism practiced their faith as the local Catholics normally would - at least, until very recently.

 

[OrdinaryMelkite]

she may have been talking about the antipopes or the pope of the coptic church, who knows, Pope is a slang term, what we are really meaning to say is the Bishop of Rome that occupies the chair of St. Peter…I am really depressed at the lack of intelligence demonstrated by people sometimes…I just don’t get it, it is really disturbing, how can people be shown the most obvious facts and still cling onto complete nonsense, I will never understand it, and not sure if i want to

Sorry for your experiences, BTW.

Three HAVE been instances where Antipopes and Legitimate Popes have competed for supremacy of the Western World.
A random example is the instance of the 1415 trial of Jan Hus-----------there were THREE “Popes”----the legitimate one and two others reigning at the same time----and things like that had happened before. Hus started criticizing this and various other “abuses” committed allegedly or truly by the Church, which ultimately led to him being tried, condemned, and burnt at the stake by an ecclesiatical council.

Just pointing out the possible context the woman may have been using, that in turn was misunderstood by her to preach her own beliefs to you.

Again-----

Sorry for the experience.

 

[frankpetrucci83]

So, honest question here, even though it sounds rhetorical because its so dumb. If a person comes to this knowledge of “3 popes”, do they just accept whatever it is the other person is saying without looking into the matter? If someone told me there was 3 popes, I’d be like “what? how? and research it or ASK A PRIEST” And if the person did look up the relevant information then why still hold on to this belief? Obviously, by her accusation, there can be only ONE pope, if she didn’t believe that then WHY say “there were 3 popes at once.” Ok, so it is safe to say this person believes that there should only be 1 pope. However, instead of accepting the obvious, that 2 of these popes could not be legitimate…i don’t even know…there is no instead of… Now it would be different if the church recognized that there were 3 LEGITIMATE popes at once, but since the Church ruled in favor of what she believes, her objection makes no sense.

 

[anodos]

since you said that it reminded me of something important that I had completely forgotten, this can be said to anyone who claims all christians are the body of Christ…in the pastor’s sermon he preached an invisible body that all christians belonged to…when the woman outside stopped me I had told her that “if someone strikes your foot isn’t it your head that cries out? Therefore, if the Catholic Church belongs to Christ’s body, then is it not Christ who cries out when you attack it? This is true even by your own preaching.”

I like this, very thoughtful.

 

[anodos]

So, honest question here, even though it sounds rhetorical because its so dumb. If a person comes to this knowledge of “3 popes”, do they just accept whatever it is the other person is saying without looking into the matter? If someone told me there was 3 popes, I’d be like “what? how? and research it or ASK A PRIEST” And if the person did look up the relevant information then why still hold on to this belief? Obviously, by her accusation, there can be only ONE pope, if she didn’t believe that then WHY say “there were 3 popes at once.” Ok, so it is safe to say this person believes that there should only be 1 pope. However, instead of accepting the obvious, that 2 of these popes could not be legitimate…i don’t even know…there is no instead of… Now it would be different if the church recognized that there were 3 LEGITIMATE popes at once, but since the Church ruled in favor of what she believes, her objection makes no sense.

You’re good at this.

 

[ltwin]

So, honest question here, even though it sounds rhetorical because its so dumb. If a person comes to this knowledge of “3 popes”, do they just accept whatever it is the other person is saying without looking into the matter? If someone told me there was 3 popes, I’d be like “what? how? and research it or ASK A PRIEST” And if the person did look up the relevant information then why still hold on to this belief? Obviously, by her accusation, there can be only ONE pope, if she didn’t believe that then WHY say “there were 3 popes at once.” Ok, so it is safe to say this person believes that there should only be 1 pope. However, instead of accepting the obvious, that 2 of these popes could not be legitimate…i don’t even know…there is no instead of… Now it would be different if the church recognized that there were 3 LEGITIMATE popes at once, but since the Church ruled in favor of what she believes, her objection makes no sense.

I think the point is that, from an non-Catholic looking at the Catholic Church, the fact that the Catholic Church is arguing over which of three different men is the pope calls into question the idea that the Holy Spirit is guiding the Catholic Church. This fact opens up the possibility that political, monetary, and whatever other special interests at the time were installing the pope.

In other words, 3 potential popes mean that there were 3 factions within the church fighting for their man to be in charge. Doesn’t seem, to non-Catholic, like there is much Holy Spirit guidance goin on.

Also, it may be obvious to you, as a Catholic, that there can only be one pope. You believe that the pope is chosen by God. Why, however, should you assume that non-Catholics should know this or they should not question the possibility that other interests besides God chooses the pope?

Just sayin.