Horrible mass experience

[maolszewski]

What about Matthew 7:6:
“Give not that which is holy to dogs; neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest perhaps they trample them under their feet, and turning upon you, they tear you.”

I know this verse isn’t to be taken literally, but its the first thing that came to mind. I am an animal lover, but I think that bringing one into church is ridiculous (unless of course it is a service animal) and irreverent.:tsktsk:

 

[Padraig1972]

I choose my words carefully and will not use the word as OP did, but sometimes after mass i have asked myself what just happened. But, i try not to focus so much about it.

The celebration, being close to God and hearing the words from the scriptures matters most.
None of us are perfect. I try to dress well, advice that to others and so on, but im just weak in the flesh, a sinner and a struggler, like so many others.

In HIS eyes, im just a child asking-crying for help and guidance from day to day.

 

[benedictgal]

I choose my words carefully and will not use the word as OP did, but sometimes after mass i have asked myself what just happened. But, i try not to focus so much about it.

The celebration, being close to God and hearing the words from the scriptures matters most.
None of us are perfect. I try to dress well, advice that to others and so on, but im just weak in the flesh, a sinner and a struggler, like so many others.

In HIS eyes, im just a child asking-crying for help and guidance from day to day.

However, God deserves better than a poorly celebrated Mass. We can’t bury our heads in the sand like proverbial ostriches and ignore what has just happened.

 

[Padraig1972]

However, God deserves better than a poorly celebrated Mass. We can’t bury our heads in the sand like proverbial ostriches and ignore what has just happened.

But say that something really goes wrong during a mass, how do one contact and will a bishop or a priest listen to a convert at all? (just making a situtational example - yes i am a convert).

 

[benedictgal]

But say that something really goes wrong during a mass, how do one contact and will a bishop or a priest listen to a convert at all? (just making a situtational example - yes i am a convert).

You write to them. The Holy See has already given us a remedy as to how to proceed in Redemptionis Sacramentum. It matters whether or not you are a convert, you still have the right to a properly celebrated Mass and you have the right of recourse to the bishop and, if need be, to Rome.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

God does deserve the best, but ever since the beginning of time people have messed it up. It is something that cannot be forced. Christ deserved better than arrest, persecution and crucifixion, but He stopped those who tried to defend Him. He even asked the Father to forgive those who trespassed against Him, giving us an example of praying for those in error.

As Catholics we know of the history of the men in the Church and accept and explain that they were ‘men’, sinful men, who were prone to mistakes because of their humanity. Man is going to make mistakes right up until the consummation of the world. We should pray for everyone.

Yes, we can inform the Bishops of errors, then we must leave the correction to them. They are the authoritative men of the Church. I’ve contacted our Bishops office once, on what I saw as erroneous teachings; the miracle of feeding 5000 was getting them to share what they had and Mary could have had other children. When I wrote the Bishops office, I explained the teachings, the first through a homily from the priest and the second through a Bible study by a nun. The nun also implied that Jesus could have been married by saying it would upset her to find out He was. A Monsignor responded to my email and said, ‘while their interpretation was interesting, you have a better understanding of Catholic beliefs.’ He suggested he would handle it if I wanted. Within two weeks we heard a new homily about the miracle of Christ feeding the 5000 with a few fish and loaves. The Bible study was stopped, and when it continued it was through another nun.

We still have the same priest, and the nun is still with us. I pray for them often. I could have changed parishes, but felt it would be abandoning the rest of the parish to possible other errors and did not want to risk someone falling into erroneous beliefs because they didn’t know better.

There are times I see things in the Mass that I wished didn’t happen and I pray His will be done. This past weekend we had a short homily, then a cartoon giving example of the Gospel. It was strange to me.

I’ve heard some of the ‘guitar’ music and understand some may not be ‘used’ to that type music. Again, what did the first Church with an organ think of something they were not used to? Is any of it acceptable? I cannot say. I can only try to understand that people are sincerely trying to sing praises to God, with what they are used to.

We have His truth in our hearts. It is okay to question things, in my opinion, and when something really does not set right with what I feel is His truth in my heart, I would ‘ask’ for clarification from the authority over that authority over me. His truth tells me, I cannot force anything. He is in charge from His throne in heaven.

By the way, that’s my :twocents:, from another convert.

 

[FAB]

First off let me say I like the OF form of the Mass when it is done at my home parish, and a parish close to my house. I think when done properly it is just as reverant as an EF Mass.

That said:

Today at the end of my Diocesan Catholic Youth conference, the Bishop arrived to say Mass. Also, keep in mind this was still in the same building as the conference, so people still had the partying atmostphere. When the music began playing, instead of singing, there was clapping moving back and forth almost to the point of dancing in the aisles, and acting as if the conference never ended. Also, the songs were sung in Spanish with no translation at all, and then some songs were in English, making it difficult to know what we were suppose to sing. Finally, I know a few of you on this forum has discussed the organ vs the guitar as liturgical music, and after this Mass, I must agree. The guitar felt out of place, and not reverant at all. I honestly felt like I was at a Protestant service.

The bishop in his normal fashion delievered a very weak homily (but I’ve come to expect this from him). The rest of the mass followed as i have mentioned, and I was quite disappointed.

The only silver lining in this was for the first time I decided to recieve on the tounge, and I must say it feels different, but in a good way

I do not think there were any abuses per se, but for the first time at a OF Mass, I felt as if there was.

I apologize if this offends anyone, as I said before this I was an advocate of the OF, but if this is how it is celebrated in most other Churches in my area, I must agree with those who prefer the EF form for its reverence. I just needed to vent

It appears that you havn’t been at many youth conferences. It sounds as though it was a very Spirit filled event. I always find it reassuring when I see a convention hall of enthusiastic teens for the Lord, celebration the liturgy.

 

[Redratfish]

It appears that you havn’t been at many youth conferences. It sounds as though it was a very Spirit filled event. I always find it reassuring when I see a convention hall of enthusiastic teens for the Lord, celebration the liturgy.

I have been to this one for 3 years now, I mentioned in a later post that this was the first time these changes occured, and no warning was given. I agree it is good that we are all gathered and care about the Mass. But I don’t think people should consider it a time to party.

I’ve heard some of the ‘guitar’ music and understand some may not be ‘used’ to that type music. Again, what did the first Church with an organ think of something they were not used to? Is any of it acceptable? I cannot say. I can only try to understand that people are sincerely trying to sing praises to God, with what they are used to.

We have His truth in our hearts. It is okay to question things, in my opinion, and when something really does not set right with what I feel is His truth in my heart, I would ‘ask’ for clarification from the authority over that authority over me. His truth tells me, I cannot force anything. He is in charge from His throne in heaven.

By the way, that’s my :twocents:, from another convert.

I agree, I stated in later posts that I enjoy guitar music at Mass at my home parish. I don’t like “Don’t Stop Believing” by Journey being played at Mass though. Conference or not

To those saying that a bishop should be contacted, part of the thing is that the bishop was the one presiding it.

 

[PatriceA]

I have been to this one for 3 years now, I mentioned in a later post that this was the first time these changes occured, and no warning was given. I agree it is good that we are all gathered and care about the Mass. But I don’t think people should consider it a time to party.

I agree, I stated in later posts that I enjoy guitar music at Mass at my home parish. I don’t like “Don’t Stop Believing” by Journey being played at Mass though. Conference or not

To those saying that a bishop should be contacted, part of the thing is that the bishop was the one presiding it.

Perhaps these “changes” have been there all along and its you that has changed. If you have in any way tried to deepen your journey into the Catholic faith, the things you found unsettling at this conference may have always been there, just that now you are more enlightened or sensitive to what takes place. God may be asking you to continue to further strengthen your faith, you may be on a different part of the journey than the rest of the young people that were at the conference.

You could bring the issues up to the Bishop, but I still think having a mass in a conference setting is always extremely chaotic and disorganized to a certain extent and some of what you have issues with can not be resolved easily.

 

[benedictgal]

To those saying that a bishop should be contacted, part of the thing is that the bishop was the one presiding it.

Actually, you can (and maybe, should) write to the bishop and inform him of your concerns. You might even want to put in the reference that the Fathers of the 2005 Synod on the Eucharist made to the type of music used during “Youth Masses”. The fact that a secular song was played during the Mass is great cause for concern, as such is prohibited.

If the bishop does not respond, then, you have recourse to Rome, the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments. Even if the bishop does respond, but gives a reply that is contrary to the directives of the Holy See, you can still write to the CDWDS, attaching a copy of your letter and his response.

 

[zab]

To those saying that a bishop should be contacted, part of the thing is that the bishop was the one presiding it.

We have a new Archbishop, and I think he may have been taken by surprise at the sight of the gigantic puppet of the Cathedral’s patron saint that is sometimes used when processing during the Cathedral Masses. I did not attend the installation Mass nor any of the Masses where the puppet was used. I have only seen photos. Our new Archbishop may not have said anything about the use of the puppet at the time, but I hope that he is seriously thinking about how to eliminate it’s use in the future.

 

[roadsend]

… Clapping in Hispanic Music is part of their culture, and widely accepted in most Hispanic Liturgy. …!

I attended dozens, if not hundreds of Masses in Hispanic regions some of them in Mexico, during the 1940s and '50s. I can assure you that clapping at Mass was NOT part of their CATHOLIC culture at that time.
In my more recent experience, Hispanic or otherwise in many places anything goes, regardless of how banal, secular, irreverent or sacrilegious. What is widely accepted and what is consistent with Catholic liturgical law are two different things.
The OP has every right to be concerned and “horrible” is in no way too strong a word,

 

[Will_S]

Our new Archbishop may not have said anything about the use of the puppet at the time, but I hope that he is seriously thinking about how to eliminate it’s use in the future.

Does it really take a lot of thought? Just toss it in the dumpster and be done with it. The radicals in the 1960s-70s didn’t waste time “seriously thinking about how to eliminate” the sacred images and altar rails, they just ripped them out a tossed them in the dumpster. Just follow their example when undoing their mess.

 

[Joan1969]

I live in a diocese not known for its orthodoxy, and even I have never seen this!
I think this is one of those places where a line needs to be drawn-
service animals are one thing (and I have seen this),
but “purse-dogs”, come on, people!!

Hi Oneof and Sarah,

This is totally inappropriate and unacceptable.

When I was down in Argentina about ten years ago, stray dogs were out of control in the churches. Goes to show what happens when standards like this are allowed to drop. Not to mention the public health and humane problems that go with stray dogs.

God Bless,
Joan

 

[agnes_therese]

Puppet?!?!

We have a new Archbishop, and I think he may have been taken by surprise at the sight of the gigantic puppet of the Cathedral’s patron saint that is sometimes used when processing during the Cathedral Masses. I did not attend the installation Mass nor any of the Masses where the puppet was used. I have only seen photos. Our new Archbishop may not have said anything about the use of the puppet at the time, but I hope that he is seriously thinking about how to eliminate it’s use in the future.

 

[sojo]

Oddly enough, the only dog outside of service dogs I’ve seen in a Mass are at our own daily Masses. The dog is a HUGE one, almost like a Mastiff, and he is the priest’s dog. He sits or lies quietly during the Mass, though he does make his way around the dozen or so attendees to greet everyone at the Sign of Peace.

The loudest, most unorthodox Mass I attended were the ones that preceded the special gatherings of dying (and disabled children. A local man who had a special heart for these kids started generating volunteers and businesses to host regular events for children dying of cancer. He branched out to severely disabled of all types as he saw how much it meant to the families and the children. They were free, no invitation needed, and word was passed around among hospice, respite and disability organizations.

One in particular was in a large restaurant’s banquet room adjacent to the kitchen, which we could see through an open door behind the “altar”. The space, food, staff, and chefs were all volunteer. With dozens of electric wheelchair along with the various IV tubes and medical equipment, children with autism and other disorders that were squeaking, yelling, beeping… the sound of people dealing with tube feeding, seizures… it was a riot. The servers had to get the place served up so they were squeezing in and out of the lines to plop bread, dressing and salads on the table.

Getting disabled people seated and everyone greeting each other as most don’t get out very often, always resulted in these Masses starting late, which means the restaurant was also in a dither to try to get the meal out on time and before closing. These huge electric wheelchairs can only inch through a crowded room of children on crutches, leg braces or just plain barely able to walk. This particular one also had the added problem of making sure the “Father Christmas” suit was ready for the host to wear when he handed out the donated Christmas presents – which, by the way, were still arriving and had to find their way to the holding area.

Nonetheless, the impromptu altar was set, the priest proceeded - only acapella singing - both English and Spanish (no translation, this is California and typical at Masses). The non-Catholics tried to follow along, but many had no clue what a Mass was, and the children hooted and hollered and seized and cried. Lots of kitchen noise and the usual staff yelling out directions.

I was truly amazed at every service how in this raggle-taggle setting, amid the kitchen sound, the clattering of plates, the sounds of the children, the scuffle to comfort a seizing child or to find the medication in the chair bag and get it into the IV or stomach tube, and the gabbing of the non-Catholics that the priest(s) (sometimes more than one celebrated) were so serene and focused. The smiles of the children when they received or simply received a blessing… the appreciation of the parents caregivers, many of whom can seldom attend Mass at all as their children cannot be left alone and medically knowledgeable caregivers are rare and expensive… it was indescribably beautiful. Sometimes, parents of children who had died would come to support the rest of us, and it was very moving to see how the ministered to others and were, in turn, ministered in their grief.

Sadly the gentleman who organized all this went to the Lord. The events were called, “Jim’s Kids.” Jim Burke attended seminary but was unable to complete his studies. A devout Catholic, he opened these events to any who needed fellowship and socialization, but they were always preceded by a Mass. He was a saint to all of us.

And I think those events were what changed my hearts about Mass. Quiet and reverent is wonderful, yes. But the point of the Mass, its powerful healing and transforming qualities are not related to noise or disruption or poor music. Not for me, not anymore.

 

[zab]

Puppet?!?!

I gather that they use this 18ft. puppet primarily for the Feast of St. James.
stjames-cathedral.org/Events/2010/picnic.htm

 

[sojo]

What a lovely celebration! Makes me wish I were there!!

Not any less holy than in Mexico (and perhaps still in Europe), when they dress a statue of Mary or a Saint in velvet costumes, hoist them up on thrones and parade them around the streets. Or some I’ve seen (maybe South America?) where they stick money on the statue until it is barely recognizable.

Or when a little girl places a wreath of flowers on the Mary statue and the rest of the class clusters “carnations” made of Kleenex around the base.

Actually, that puppet has a lot more aesthetics going for it than the average celebration with traveling statues. Or the nativity play I saw with a cabbage patch doll in the manger.

 

[Stylites]

Today at the end of my Diocesan Catholic Youth conference, the Bishop arrived to say Mass. Also, keep in mind this was still in the same building as the conference, so people still had the partying atmostphere. When the music began playing, instead of singing, there was clapping moving back and forth almost to the point of dancing in the aisles, and acting as if the conference never ended.

Glad to hear you got to witness a beautiful Mass celebrated with youthful enthusiasm and sincerity!

 

[Stylites]

Does it really take a lot of thought? Just toss it in the dumpster and be done with it. The radicals in the 1960s-70s didn’t waste time “seriously thinking about how to eliminate” the sacred images and altar rails, they just ripped them out a tossed them in the dumpster. Just follow their example when undoing their mess.

Is iconoclasm still in vogue?