Horribly troubling conversation with sister

[1990Domer]

First, let me say that my sister and I have a checkered past. Even though we came from a devout family, she rebelled. I kept the faith.

I was telling her about a dear friend I have been helping. Her husband has Stage IV pancreatic cancer that has spread to his liver. It’s affecting his cognitive abilities. They called me twice in the past 5 days to bail them out of legal and financial trouble. I was glad I was here to help.

My sister’s husband died of the same cancer. She donated tickets to a fundraiser for the family that was held this weekend and asked how it went. I told her. I also mentioned about the assistance I needed to give them because I didn’t have time to talk to her on the phone.

Immediately, she mentioned something to the effect that this is the time you wish Jack Kevorkian was still alive or wished that the family lived in Oregon so they had the option of assisted suicide. I was horrified. I immediately told her that she was terribly wrong to have those feelings and that, as a Catholic, she is going against doctrine. She quickly ended the conversation.

She later texts me and say that all Catholics do not believe what the Church teaches. I told her that she wasn’t being a true Catholic…that you cannot pick and choose doctrine to your liking. She then stated she wasn’t against assisted suicide, that we were only having a conversation. I told her I did not agree about the “conversation” part, as her answer about assisted suicide came out quite matter of factly with really no pause for what she was saying.

I am truly upset, but thank goodness I have a meeting with our pastor to help me overcome some spiritual difficulties I have, which includes the poor treatment my son received at Catholic school.

Thank you for reading.

 

[Rico_S]

IMHO, that was a pretty terrible spot to throw down the gauntlet, lecture her on Catholic doctrine, and tell her what Catholic’s can and cannot do…regardless of whether you were right. I know you think you were simply defending the faith, but if it only serves to harden the hearts of those you are engaging, what’s the point? Like so many CAF posters…it may feel good to know that you have truth on your side, and wielding it as a weapon against those who disagree may seem like the best course, but I think we often lose sight of the goal.

 

[jeannetherese]

sometimes the greatest gift we might give another is the gift of the opportunity to care for us when we are most dependent upon care.
May we value the gift of those in their end stages of life on this earth.
May your sister’s need become a gift to you and ultimately to her growth in faith and hope.
Amen.

 

[Lorelei12]

It sounds like in trying to defend your faith, it might have been better to be a bit more gentle- especially with someone whose husband has died from cancer. You told her that she was “wrong to have those feelings” and that “she wasn’t being a true Catholic”, which, in my opinion, are both very harsh statements.

Of course you are absolutely right- assisted suicide is wrong. But remember that you were speaking to someone who watched her husband suffer terribly- it’s understandable that someone who witnessed that might feel the way she does, as wrong as it is. She is entitled to her feelings, however misguided they are. A simple “I feel terribly for people going through that and their families, but I still don’t believe that is a moral option” might have been a more appropriate response.

It is really hard to strike a balance between standing up for faith and morals, and being sensitive and respectful of others’ feelings. Personal character attacks, though, are rarely effective.

 

[1990Domer]

IMHO, that was a pretty terrible spot to throw down the gauntlet, lecture her on Catholic doctrine, and tell her what Catholic’s can and cannot do…regardless of whether you were right. I know you think you were simply defending the faith, but if it only serves to harden the hearts of those you are engaging, what’s the point? Like so many CAF posters…it may feel good to know that you have truth on your side, and wielding it as a weapon against those who disagree may seem like the best course, but I think we often lose sight of the goal.

She’s already a lost cause…trust me on that. If you can do better, I wish you tons of luck. But, she essentially killed her first husband by denying him nutrition when he was in his end stages of cancer. He died of starvation. I put down the hammer because she is trying to change MY mind and my family’s man on the teaching. She even discouraged my son from discerning the priesthood.

I won’t get into the mocking she does of my faith life.

 

[1990Domer]

It sounds like in trying to defend your faith, it might have been better to be a bit more gentle- especially with someone whose husband has died from cancer. You told her that she was “wrong to have those feelings” and that “she wasn’t being a true Catholic”, which, in my opinion, are both very harsh statements.

Of course you are absolutely right- assisted suicide is wrong. But remember that you were speaking to someone who watched her husband suffer terribly- it’s understandable that someone who witnessed that might feel the way she does, as wrong as it is. She is entitled to her feelings, however misguided they are. A simple “I feel terribly for people going through that and their families, but I still don’t believe that is a moral option” might have been a more appropriate response.

It is really hard to strike a balance between standing up for faith and morals, and being sensitive and respectful of others’ feelings. Personal character attacks, though, are rarely effective.

She killed her husband by denying him nutrition. The priest even mentioned it at the funeral mass. Sorry, no pity should be due her.

 

[1990Domer]

sometimes the greatest gift we might give another is the gift of the opportunity to care for us when we are most dependent upon care.
May we value the gift of those in their end stages of life on this earth.
May your sister’s need become a gift to you and ultimately to her growth in faith and hope.
Amen.

My sister does not have a husband dying. She was suggesting I bring that up to my friend, whose husband is dying. Yes, her first husband did die of the same cancer, but she was in a bad marriage, didn’t care for him (my parents did) and she withdrew nutrition during his end days. He confided to my folks that he thought she tried to overdose him on pain meds. Not pretty.

I wrote my post to protect my own faith, as I feel evil around me when I talk to her. Please, I need the prayers.

 

[1990Domer]

sometimes the greatest gift we might give another is the gift of the opportunity to care for us when we are most dependent upon care.
May we value the gift of those in their end stages of life on this earth.
May your sister’s need become a gift to you and ultimately to her growth in faith and hope.
Amen.

I have long had a strained existence with my sister. You cannot be nice to her, unless you want to get lies and melodrama. She’s toxic, and I cut contact with her.

I would never put down a gauntlet when I feel there is hope. But like what Chris recommended, I am shaking the dust off my shoes and allowing her to lead her own life. I just pray she doesn’t spread scandal to others around her.

 

[BrockH]

I had a similar conversation with a relative from Chicago who claims to “identify more with the left, the liberal side.” I brought up the situation in California which Archbishop of L.A. Jose Gomez was fighting - against the allowance of assisted suicide. She claimed that she cannot judge it and said “you never what you’d do in that situation.” She went on and on sympathizing with the whole assisted suicide stuff, claiming “I’ve felt that desperate, too” - we ended the conversation because it wasn’t appropriate for the occasion (we were having a party at my home) - and then the next morning at Mass, our deacon gave the homily and BLASTED same-sex marriage, abortion, and the poor handling of the sexual abuse claims in the church by church leaders. She glared during the entire homily. It was very troubling to know that so many Catholics, especially Chicago, IL Catholics, really don’t care what the Church teaches on much of anything.

 

[1990Domer]

It sounds like in trying to defend your faith, it might have been better to be a bit more gentle- especially with someone whose husband has died from cancer. You told her that she was “wrong to have those feelings” and that “she wasn’t being a true Catholic”, which, in my opinion, are both very harsh statements.

Of course you are absolutely right- assisted suicide is wrong. But remember that you were speaking to someone who watched her husband suffer terribly- it’s understandable that someone who witnessed that might feel the way she does, as wrong as it is. She is entitled to her feelings, however misguided they are. A simple “I feel terribly for people going through that and their families, but I still don’t believe that is a moral option” might have been a more appropriate response.

It is really hard to strike a balance between standing up for faith and morals, and being sensitive and respectful of others’ feelings. Personal character attacks, though, are rarely effective.

Trust me, she was drunk most of the time he was ill. My parents and I took care of him. Yes, I am bitter.

 

[johnnyc176]

She later texts me and say that all Catholics do not believe what the Church teaches.

I would tell her actually it’s all Catholics do not believe what Jesus teaches. I have found that ‘catholics’ who do not accept doctrine tend to ‘blame’ it on the Catholic Church and do as protestants…separate Jesus from His Church, the Catholic Church.

Sorry you are going through this with family. Unfortunately it’s going to happen more often these days. I know some will say that it should not be discussed among family to keep peace but that’s unrealistic especially when souls are at stake. It is a spiritual work of mercy.

 

[1990Domer]

I had a similar conversation with a relative from Chicago who claims to “identify more with the left, the liberal side.” I brought up the situation in California which Archbishop of L.A. Jose Gomez was fighting - against the allowance of assisted suicide. She claimed that she cannot judge it and said “you never what you’d do in that situation.” She went on and on sympathizing with the whole assisted suicide stuff, claiming “I’ve felt that desperate, too” - we ended the conversation because it wasn’t appropriate for the occasion (we were having a party at my home) - and then the next morning at Mass, our deacon gave the homily and BLASTED same-sex marriage, abortion, and the poor handling of the sexual abuse claims in the church by church leaders. She glared during the entire homily. It was very troubling to know that so many Catholics, especially Chicago, IL Catholics, really don’t care what the Church teaches on much of anything.

Are we related to the same person? Yes, she is an ardent supporter of SSM, marches in pride parades (she says her company forces her to do so) and has been trying to make me more liberal. When she tried talking my son about discerning a vocation, that was the end. I try to stay humble, she gets combative. So, I just tell her to stop trying to convince me about liberal Catholicism. Oh, and she hated the sermon Archbishop Chaput gave at my son’s confirmation.

 

[1990Domer]

I would tell her actually it’s all Catholics do not believe what Jesus teaches. I have found that ‘catholics’ who do not accept doctrine tend to ‘blame’ it on the Catholic Church and do as protestants…separate Jesus from His Church, the Catholic Church.

Sorry you are going through this with family. Unfortunately it’s going to happen more often these days. I know some will say that it should not be discussed among family to keep peace but that’s unrealistic especially when souls are at stake. It is a spiritual work of mercy.

I really tend to agree. The sad thing is I don’t want her pushing this on my son when I am not around. My kid is very pious.

Sadly, I know things are trending this way. I wish it wasn’t the case.

 

[1990Domer]

Please, rather than judge what I did please ask for clarification. There seems to be a lot more touchy people on this site than I remember.

 

[Rico_S]

She’s already a lost cause…trust me on that. If you can do better, I wish you tons of luck. But, she essentially killed her first husband by denying him nutrition when he was in his end stages of cancer. He died of starvation. I put down the hammer because she is trying to change MY mind and my family’s man on the teaching. She even discouraged my son from discerning the priesthood.

I won’t get into the mocking she does of my faith life.

If she is some lost cause…an evil murderer who lures your family away from the Church undeserving of pity, then why engage her at all. Seems like all this does is bring you misery. Cut her off…don’t have any conversation with her.

Problem solved.

 

[St_Francis]

Your sister is being very rude to you and it might help if you set up some boundaries.

For example, say “it is not polite to complain about the homily at my son’s confirmation that you were invited to. In the future, if you think you will be unable to refrain from negative comments, just tell me you can’t come.” Or, “My hisband and I are the parents of (son). Please do not undermine our job of raising him by saying things like this (be specific).” Be clear that you will restrict her access to him if she continues. Ask her how she would feel if you told her children (if she has any) that she is committing sins which are mortal by skipping Mass and the like.

Limit your contact with her on any forms of communication as needed. Is she calling you as you are getting ready to leave? Don’t answer. Do not bring up things that might lead into controversial topics. If she says anything like that, say something like how rude or nosy or judgemental she is being, do *not *argue the topic.

FWIW, towards the end of life, the organs of the body start shutting down and nutrition is removed because the body cannot handle it and it can make the patient uncomfortable. This may be what happened with your BIL. Unfortunately, it is indeed possible that nutrition was withdrawn too early, but sometimes relatives don’t know the above and get upset about something which is actually medically and Church approved.

 

[1990Domer]

If she is some lost cause…an evil murderer who lures your family away from the Church undeserving of pity, then why engage her at all. Seems like all this does is bring you misery. Cut her off…don’t have any conversation with her.

Problem solved.

My only reason for doing so was because I didn’t want issues when our elderly parents died. Trust me, I engage her only as much as she needs to know concerning our parents’ health. I lured into thinking (by other relatives) that she had changed. I have her a chance. I was wrong. My bad.

 

[1990Domer]

Your sister is being very rude to you and it might help if you set up some boundaries.

For example, say “it is not polite to complain about the homily at my son’s confirmation that you were invited to. In the future, if you think you will be unable to refrain from negative comments, just tell me you can’t come.” Or, “My hisband and I are the parents of (son). Please do not undermine our job of raising him by saying things like this (be specific).” Be clear that you will restrict her access to him if she continues. Ask her how she would feel if you told her children (if she has any) that she is committing sins which are mortal by skipping Mass and the like.

Limit your contact with her on any forms of communication as needed. Is she calling you as you are getting ready to leave? Don’t answer. Do not bring up things that might lead into controversial topics. If she says anything like that, say something like how rude or nosy or judgemental she is being, do *not *argue the topic.

FWIW, towards the end of life, the organs of the body start shutting down and nutrition is removed because the body cannot handle it and it can make the patient uncomfortable. This may be what happened with your BIL. Unfortunately, it is indeed possible that nutrition was withdrawn too early, but sometimes relatives don’t know the above and get upset about something which is actually medically and Church approved.

Thank you for telling me this. It brings a large amount of relief. All she told me was that she withdrew nutrition because it was only feeding the cancer. The priest, in his homily, made a reference to it, but I remember it not being in a positive way.

We set up the same boundaries that we had to do with my deceased MIL. I was lulled by other family members that she “changed” and to “give her another chance.” Yes, she was toxic before. Now, however, I think she showed her best side to said family members and reverted to treating me the way she used to…when I was more of a pushover. But, having a special needs son made we wise up to the need to advocate for him, me and whoever close to me is wronged.

Thank you and God bless.

 

[St_Francis]

Thank you for telling me this. It brings a large amount of relief. All she told me was that she withdrew nutrition because it was only feeding the cancer. The priest, in his homily, made a reference to it, but I remember it not being in a positive way.

I’m very happy that helped you.

We set up the same boundaries that we had to do with my deceased MIL. I was lulled by other family members that she “changed” and to “give her another chance.” Yes, she was toxic before. Now, however, I think she showed her best side to said family members and reverted to treating me the way she used to…when I was more of a pushover. But, having a special needs son made we wise up to the need to advocate for him, me and whoever close to me is wronged.

Thank you and God bless.

 

[Irishmom2]

Trust me, she was drunk most of the time he was ill. My parents and I took care of him. Yes, I am bitter.

Please don’t be bitter, you did the right thing.

And I think cutting ties with her was the right thing for you to do.

I have read your other threads. You have a lot going on. I will keep you in my prayers. :hug1: