Hos 1:2-3 Question

[garysibio]

In Hosea Gomer the prostitute represents thos who follow false gods. The Church is the bride of Christ so, when its people, or even the pope, go astray, it is like an unfaithful wife.

Are there any places in the OT where the Jews are similarly referred to (specifically) as brides (or similar language)? I thought of the Song of Solomon but the bride there was a foreigner, not a Jew.

 

[TimothyH]

Jesus makes direct reference to Hosea’s imagery of God as the husband of Israel when he speaks to the Samaritan woman.

The woman answered and said to him, “I do not have a husband.” Jesus answered her, “You are right in saying, ‘I do not have a husband.’ For you have had five husbands, and the one you have now is not your husband. What you have said is true.” (John 4:17-18)

The king of Assyria had come down into Israel and deported the Jews, leaving only a remnant of the ten northern tribes who lived north of Judea in the area which would later be known as Samaria. The king of Assyria then brought people from five nations into Samaria to mix with the remnants of the Jews, and the remaining Jews mixed with the people from the five nations, adopting their diet, culture and worship. The five nations whom the northern tribes of Israel mixed with are the five “Husbands” of the Samaritan woman.

Jerimiah uses the image of God as the husband of Israel.

"If a man divorces his wife and she goes from him
and becomes another man’s wife,
will he return to her?
Would not that land be greatly polluted?
You have played the harlot with many lovers;
and would you return to me? says the LORD.
(Jerimiah 3:1)

You can probably search a concordance for the word husband and come up with more.

-Tim-

 

[garysibio]

Jesus makes direct reference to Hosea’s imagery of God as the husband of Israel when he speaks to the Samaritan woman.

The woman answered and said to him, “I do not have a husband.” Jesus answered her, “You are right in saying, ‘I do not have a husband.’ For you have had five husbands, and the one you have now is not your husband. What you have said is true.” (John 4:17-18)

The king of Assyria had come down into Israel and deported the Jews, leaving only a remnant of the ten northern tribes who lived north of Judea in the area which would later be known as Samaria. The king of Assyria then brought people from five nations into Samaria to mix with the remnants of the Jews, and the remaining Jews mixed with the people from the five nations, adopting their diet, culture and worship. The five nations whom the northern tribes of Israel mixed with are the five “Husbands” of the Samaritan woman.

Jerimiah uses the image of God as the husband of Israel.

"If a man divorces his wife and she goes from him
and becomes another man’s wife,
will he return to her?
Would not that land be greatly polluted?
You have played the harlot with many lovers;
and would you return to me? says the LORD.
(Jerimiah 3:1)

You can probably search a concordance for the word husband and come up with more.

-Tim-

Sorry, Tim, but I really think you’re over-thinking this one. I think Jesus was saying this woman was a serial monogamist.

 

[Mystophilus]

In Jer 3:20 and Eze 16:32, the Jewish people are the unfaithful wife (because they went after idols instead of God); interestingly in Mal 2:14, it is swapped, and Judah is the unfaithful husband.

If you do a search on something like “whore” in the OT, it will turn up a lot of these references, because the representation of Israel’s unfaithfulness to God is repeatedly made in that fashion.

 

[garysibio]

In Jer 3:20 and Eze 16:32, the Jewish people are the unfaithful wife (because they went after idols instead of God); interestingly in Mal 2:14, it is swapped, and Judah is the unfaithful husband.

If you do a search on something like “whore” in the OT, it will turn up a lot of these references, because the representation of Israel’s unfaithfulness to God is repeatedly made in that fashion.

Good idea, thanks.

 

[Viola_Incognita]

Sorry, Tim, but I really think you’re over-thinking this one. I think Jesus was saying this woman was a serial monogamist.

No, Tim is correct. In the Gospel of John, you cannot take the stories at face value. They have much deeper meaning. This “over-thinking” is the way the Church understands the Scriptures and the continuity between the Old and New Testament. It’s the basis for your own question about thinking of groups (of people) as brides of God/Christ.

Why did you ask the question you asked?

 

[Dave_Noonan]

In Hosea Gomer the prostitute represents thos who follow false gods. The Church is the bride of Christ so, when its people, or even the pope, go astray, it is like an unfaithful wife.

Are there any places in the OT where the Jews are similarly referred to (specifically) as brides (or similar language)? I thought of the Song of Solomon but the bride there was a foreigner, not a Jew.

Gomer is actually a promiscuous woman, not necessarily what we would think of as a prostitute. As you noted, the metaphor in Hosea is that Israel’s leadership has been “sleeping around” on God.

I can’t think of any place where the Israelites are collectively referred to as a “bride” outside of Hosea (see 2:19-20).

 

[COPLAND_3]

I will give some commentary on Hosea 1:2-3, hopefully it will provide some details that will be helpful.

Bishop Richard Challoner- [2] A wife of fornications: That is, a wife that has been given to fornication. This was to represent the Lord’s proceedings with his people Israel, who, by spiritual fornication, were continually offending him.-- Ibid. **Children of fornications: **So called from the character of their mother, if not also from their own wicked dispositions.

Theodoret of Cyrus- The Lord of all had bidden Hosea to marry a lose woman so as by the even to charge the people with impiety and give evidence of his characteristic adulterous Synagogue, however, and the fount of holiness was not defiled by the loathsome and abominable thing, neither did the prophet incur any defilement from that licentious woman; without being in thrall to lust, and instead carrying our a command on high, he put up with that awful relationship… The remarkable Hosea, then, took the prostitute, not in thrall to lust but in obedience to divine wishes, and that relationship
was holier than any marriage, not only because it was done in accord with a divine wish, but because it also represented a type of God and the way the holy one reposing in the saints was styled a bridegroom of the licentious mass of the Israelites.

**Ishodad of Merv- **God represented through the woman of whoredom the community of the ten tribes who openly practiced the worship of idols. They are like the woman of whoredom who protitutes herself by leaving her room open- at the time of Jeroboam. They are like those of the house of Judah who through the adulterous woman publicly swore to God but secretly worshipped the idol Milkom (1 Kgs 11:5,33). In fact Gomer was famous for her whoredom, like the Egyptians Oholah and Oholibah (see Ez 23).

Theodore of Mopsuestia- Hosea’s marriage demonstrated the greater marvel of God’s condescending to choose such ungrateful people for special attention by the powerful example-namely, the remarkable prophet’s doing his duty by entering into association with a prostitute.

 

[Mintaka]

The Old Testament talks about Israel as a bride quite a lot, as well as “the wife of His youth,” the “daughter of Zion,” etc. The Pope wrote a whole little book about the Daughter of Zion image and how it ties Mary and the Church to Israel, back when he was still just Cardinal Ratzinger.

 

[TimothyH]

Sorry, Tim, but I really think you’re over-thinking this one. I think Jesus was saying this woman was a serial monogamist.

You give me too much credit. I learned this from a Bible study by Jeff Cavins.

The king of Assyria had deported the Jews from the ten northern tribes and brought in the people from five other nations to populate the land. The remnant of the Jews in Samaria were not faithful to God, but adopted the worship, diet and pagan customs of the five nations. They still worshipped the God of Abraham, but worshipped all the other gods as well.

In the New American Bible, there is a reference at the end of John 4:18, where Jesus says, “For you have had five husbands, and the one you have now is not your husband. What you have said is true.”, right at the end of that verse, which points to 2 Kings 17.

The king of Assyria brought people from Babylon, Cuthah, Avva, Hamath, and Sepharvaim, and settled them in the cities of Samaria in place of the Israelites. They took possession of Samaria and dwelt in its cities. (2 Kings 17:24)

Notice that there are five nations mentioned. Read further down in verse 33…

They were both venerating the LORD and serving their own gods. They followed the custom of the nations from among whom they had been deported. (2 Kings 17:33)

Thats the image of unfaithfulness to which Hosea is referencing, and to which Jesus references when he says “You worship what you know.”

Hosea was a prophet who operated in the area of Samaria, the land of the ten northern tribes of Isreal, just prior to the time of the Assyrian attack and exile of the Jews. This is the period covered in 2 Kings 14 through 18.

Anyway, you give me too much credit. I’m a computer engineer. Information Technology guys are good at reading books.

-Tim-

 

[fisherman_carl]

You give me too much credit. I learned this from a Bible study by Jeff Cavins.

The king of Assyria had deported the Jews from the ten northern tribes and brought in the people from five other nations to populate the land. The remnant of the Jews in Samaria were not faithful to God, but adopted the worship, diet and pagan customs of the five nations. They still worshipped the God of Abraham, but worshipped all the other gods as well.

In the New American Bible, there is a reference at the end of John 4:18, where Jesus says, “For you have had five husbands, and the one you have now is not your husband. What you have said is true.”, right at the end of that verse, which points to 2 Kings 17.

The king of Assyria brought people from Babylon, Cuthah, Avva, Hamath, and Sepharvaim, and settled them in the cities of Samaia in place of the Israelites. They took possession of Samaria and dwelt in its cities." (2 Kings 17:24)

Notice that there are five nations mentioned. Read further down in verse 33…

They were both venerating the LORD and serving their own gods. They followed the custom of the nations from among whom they had been deported. (2 Kings 17:33)

Thats the image of unfaithfulness to which Hosea is referencing, and to which Jesus references when he says “You worship what you know.”

Hosea was a prophet who operated in the area of Samaria, the land of the ten northern tribes of Isreal, just prior to the time of the Assyrian attack and exile of the Jews. This is the period covered in 2 Kings 14 through 18.

Anyway, you give me too much credit. I’m a computer engineer. Information Technology guys are good at reading books.

-Tim-

Here is the commentary from the Ignatius Catholic Study Bible for Jn 4:18

"4:18 five husbands: The woman has endured multiple marital struggles. • The woman’s personal life parallels the historical experience of the Samaritan people. According to 2 Kings 17:24-31, the five foreign tribes who intermarried with the northern Israelites (Samaritans) introduced five male deities into their religion. These idols were individually addressed as Baal, a Hebrew word meaning “lord” or “husband”. The prophets denounced Israel for serving these gods, calling such worship infidelity to its true covenant spouse, Yahweh. Hope was kept alive, however, that God would show mercy to these Israelites and become their everlasting husband in the bonds of a New Covenant (Hos 2:16-20). This day has dawned in the ministry of Jesus, the divine bridegroom (3:29), who has come to save the Samaritans from a lifetime of struggles with five pagan “husbands”. See note on Jn 4:6".

So there does seem to be a parallel between the woman at the well and the Samaritan people’s history.

Also, just a slight correction. You quoted, “You worship what you know.” when actually the quotation is, “You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, for salvation is from the Jews.” (v.22)

 

[fisherman_carl]

Also, for further reference. Commentary from Jn 4:6 as referenced in ICSB:

"4:6 Jacob’s well: Nowhere mentioned in the OT but traditionally located at the foot of Mt. Gerizim in central Samaria. • The setting recalls the marital arrangements described in the Pentateuch. As the wives of Isaac (Gen 24:1067), Jacob (Gen 29:1-30), and Moses (Ex 2:15-21) were first encountered at a well, so Jesus is the divine bridegroom in search of believers to be his covenant bride (3:29)."

In addition, the commentary on Jn 3:29 yields much fruit for the OP.
**
“the bridegroom: Jesus, whose bride is the Church (2 Cor 11:2; Eph 5:21-32). John the Baptist is the friend or “best man” of the groom who, in Jewish custom, arranges and manages the wedding celebration. John is content to fade into the background now that his duties are fulfilled (3:30). • The marital covenant between Jesus and the Church is an extension of the spousal relation between Yahweh and Israel under the Old Covenant (Is 54:5-8; Jer 2:2; Hos 2:16-20; CCC 796; 1612).”**

 

[bmonk]

Sorry, Tim, but I really think you’re over-thinking this one. I think Jesus was saying this woman was a serial monogamist.

John tells us that the woman understands the underlying message–the comparison of her five husbands to the five gods of the Samaritans, because she replies, “I see that you are a prophet!”–that is, one who speaks the Word of God, a word with many levels of meaning. And he is come to bring her from the one who is not her husband, to the One who is–the true God.