Hostility from Jehovah's witnesses

[Telstar]

You know–I do have auto correct on the PC and that is probably what happened. I am glad you thought of that because otherwise I would have thought that I was losing it.

Thanks a bunch–I did not use auto correct now so if there are misspelt words Oh Well LOL

That’s why I like to use Mozilla Firefox. It has a built in spell checker, but you can ignore the little red squiggly line if it decides it doesn’t like the spelling. It always picks up on initials because it thinks it’s supposed to be a word, but I just ignore it. It doesn’t make any changes unless you make them, yourself.

 

[Regardless]

I will be Honest I do think Th JW Religion is Like A Cult I Love Celebrating Birthdays & Holiday’s & stuff I’m not sure Who wouldn’t want to & that’s One of the reason’s why I wouldn’t Join JW Because I love celebrations & Birthday’s & stuff .

That is fair enough.
We are not opposed to celebrations in general or to the giving of gifts, and do celebrate special occasions like weddings and anniversaries. However, we do not celebrate holidays that have non-Christian religious origins or those that promote nationalism.
Many like to study the Bible with us, but stop short of making changes in their lives. that is their choice. All we can do is share the information we have found. What people do with it is up to them.

As for being a cult: We are not.
Cults usually follow one person, are noted for withdrawing from society and are very secretive about their beliefs and practices.
= How much less secrative could you be about your beliefs than going to strangers doors and saying: “can we please show you what we believe and why?” Ha ha.

Enjoy.

 

[T_More]

That is fair enough.
We are not opposed to celebrations in general or to the giving of gifts, and do celebrate special occasions like weddings and anniversaries. However, we do not celebrate holidays that have non-Christian religious origins

**Hi Regardless. Peace be with you.

You have put yourself in a predicament with this statement. Where do you think the customs that are done at just about every JW wedding come from? The white of the wedding dress? The rings? A veil? Why there are groomsmen and bridesmaids? Do some research my friend, I think you may be surprised. Then you must ask yourself, when do some “pagan” rituals cease to be pagan? Where is the line drawn on what you can and cannot do? It sounds to me that there is some intellectual dishonesty shown by the WTBS in regards to this issue.

**

As for being a cult: We are not.
Cults usually follow one person, are noted for withdrawing from society and are very secretive about their beliefs and practices.
= How much less secrative could you be about your beliefs than going to strangers doors and saying: “can we please show you what we believe and why?” Ha ha.

**The International Bible Students, later known as the Jehovah’s Witnesses, are a product of following one person, CT Russell. There was no Governing Body until the latter half of their existence, with Joseph Rutherford assuming the authoritative position of President of the Watchtower Society after Russell. So if you hold to your definition, your defeating your own argument. Come to think of it, every other Protestant movement would qualify under this definition as well…

As for being secretive, I wonder how many JW’s know about the many skeletons in the WTBS closet, yet alone potential converts? The JW’s have no trouble bashing the Catholic Church time and time again in their own publications, but are they willing to acknowledge their own transgressions? Would you share with a return visit how the disfellowshipping arrangement works if that person openly disgrees with doctrine after becoming one of Jehovah’s Witnesses? Would you volunteer information about this arrangement if he or she never asked, so they knew that they could lose contact with their family (assuming they were JW’s as well) until they were reinstated? In other words, is it a don’t ask don’t tell policy, so the person doesn’t really know the whole story about what he or she is getting themselves into?

Why do you think the WTBS would not reveal who the translators were of the New World Translation? And I know what you’re going to say about not wanting glory and being humble, nevertheless, if a potential asked who the translation committee is just so they could make sure about their credentials before moving forward in their studying with JW’s, do you think that is a reasonable request? Do you think the JW studying with the person could/would provide that info? Why not? It’s a rather important issue for intellectually honest people, much like the Bereans, who wanted to make sure of what they were hearing was true. Would I go to a doctor if he wasn’t qualified if I was very ill? How much more important is our spiritual life? I think it’s not unreasonable for someone to think that this seems secretive.

As for withdrawing from society, your statement is a little amusing. You know as well as I do that JW’s do not socially associate with non JW’s under any circumstances, misunderstanding Christ’s statement to Pilate about being no part of the world.

As you can see, you might want to reconsider your definition of cult.

**

 

[Pepband_Mom]

Regardless:

I mentioned in another post re: Shunning - a malicious, psychologically destructive practice; one amongst many techniques that sects utilize.

What would happen if YOU left the JW’s?

What would happen to YOUR family, job, “friends” within the JW organization if you left?
Would spouse, parents, grandparents, kids, cousins, aunts & uncles, friends treat you any differently?
Have you used this against anyone else? Leave you with mixed emotions - rip you up or do JW’s justify shunning on the shabby pretense of - It’s for the person’s “own good”?

How do the shunned victims react? How does this square with Love your neighbor as yourself & God is Love?

 

[Regardless]

Regardless:

I mentioned in another post re: Shunning - a malicious, psychologically destructive practice; one amongst many techniques that sects utilize.

What would happen if YOU left the JW’s?

What would happen to YOUR family, job, “friends” within the JW organization if you left?
Would spouse, parents, grandparents, kids, cousins, aunts & uncles, friends treat you any differently?
Have you used this against anyone else? Leave you with mixed emotions - rip you up or do JW’s justify shunning on the shabby pretense of - It’s for the person’s “own good”?

How do the shunned victims react? How does this square with Love your neighbor as yourself & God is Love?

1 Corinthians 5:11, 13. says:
But now I am writing YOU to quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man. 13*while God judges those outside? “Remove the wicked [man] from among yourselves.”

What do you think a Christian should do when another, who has promised to live by God’s righteous standards, decides to abandon them? Should we follow the Christian standard prescribed by Paul or not?

 

[Regardless]

T_More:
Ok.
When did a JW ever quote Charles Taze Russel or Joseph Rutherford as an authority to you?

Sure, they did their best to teach what the Bible said, but they were not prophets. Nor Cult leaders. Nor did they ever claim to be inspired like the Bible writers.
I’m sure they were used by Jehovah, as far as they were in their day, but we don’t consider them leaders or popes. Just imperfect men.

Since they died, Jehovah’s organisation has increased from less than a million to nearly 8 million proclaimers and teachers - While the churches have fallen into critical decline. - Why do you think Jesus is allowing a false cult to do the world wide preaching of the Kingdom he prophesied at Matthew 24;14?

 

[atheistgirl]

Since they died, Jehovah’s organisation has increased from less than a million to nearly 8 million proclaimers and teachers - While the churches have fallen into critical decline. - Why do you think Jesus is allowing a false cult to do the world wide preaching of the Kingdom he prophesied at Matthew 24;14?

How many of these numbers are children, spouse, grandkids of jehovahs witnesses brought up in your beliefs? And how many are converts from hearing your message? It’s an important distinction because it shows a more accurate figure of the rate of growth.

I would respectfully suggest that 8 million after 150 years and hundreds of millions of man hours of knocking on peoples doors worldwide is not a great rate of return.

Sarah x

 

[Phyllo]

Ok.
When did a JW ever quote Charles Taze Russel or Joseph Rutherford as an authority to you?

No but they and the governing body are your authority.

Sure, they did their best to teach what the Bible said–as to their interpretation. The Bible “writers” didn’t have to claim to be inspired they were inspired.

I am under the impression that Mr. Russel penned the first Insight into Scripture books and Mr. Rutherford revised it into the books you have now. I am also under the impression that Witness’ are told that if they read the Bible alone, excluding the Insights books, for 2 years they will lose the truth. Imagine that, no truth in the Bible. I might be mistaken here in the wording but I understand that Witness’ are not encouraged to read the bible alone, but in conjunction with the Insights books.

I am also under the impression that Witness’ claim to be the one and only true prophet of God or God’s messenger I think is how they put it.

Every generation or so they change their teaching on one thing or another as their governing body receives “enlightenment” from God. Are they sure it is from God they are receiving their enlightenment ? I know they claim that their enlightenment is like a bulb burning more brightly. They are the first ones to admit when they make a mistake. How can they make a mistake if they are receiving enlightenment from God? When God tells you something you can’t misunderstand. If in the first place the bulb was a little dim on a teaching I don’t think there would be a complete 180 deg turn when the bulb got brighter. I think that the understanding of said teaching would become a little clearer and not completely changed.

If I am not mistaken, they just changed their teaching on Matt. 13:33 the parable of the yeast. So did God tell them the wrong thing the first time and is it the right thing this time? Is the bulb brighter now with this enlightenment?

I am curious as to how they interpret it now. They used to think that the yeast was a bad thing here. In every other interpretation here the yeast is a good thing.

[/QUOTE]

 

[Pepband_Mom]

Regardless Please answer my ?

Have YOU ever shunned anyone? was my ?
Do JW’s pray for those they’ve shunned?

As per shunning a “drunkard”, my Dad stepped up years ago (when he really couldn’t afford it but couldn’t afford not to) & paid for an expensive alcoholic treatment program for a relative who afterwards never took another drink his whole life. He never got the $ back & there were many times we could have used it.

Dad went "the extra mile’
Dad forgave “70 x 7”
Dad saw the wisdom of “helping his brother”
They both TRIUMPHED over a dangerous addiction

If Dad would have walked away & abandoned this man, 6 people + grandkids now who never would been born. In other words, the world changed as a result of stepping up.

We don’t lock alcoholics out of the Church or anyone else; even if excommunicated, they can still come in. They are still loved; there is always hope!!! A fornicator, should realize through their own conscience, should never receive communion until it’s confessed and absolved and they walk away from their sin. But don’t lock them out of our Churches. We have HOPE that they will wake up and quit sinning. Perhaps jail time for the extortioner will help wake up a dead conscience!

We have the Sacrament of Confession so if people avail themselves to it, we are all struggling & in this life together. You don’t take the Spiritual medicine away, it’s for sinners which we all are. Jehovah has designed a most brilliant sacrament indeed and IT WORKS!!! Jehovah lavishly dispenses His graces The grace of 6 kids!!!

bottom line is always reach out, never give up as long as someone is alive they can change & prayers for that person may bring about a deathbed conversion

The body of Christ - 1 head, 1 body, 1 Church - all people are a part of this body - JW’s are a part of this body. When 1 suffers, we all suffer…

 

[T_More]

Ok.
When did a JW ever quote Charles Taze Russel or Joseph Rutherford as an authority to you?

Sure, they did their best to teach what the Bible said, but they were not prophets. Nor Cult leaders. Nor did they ever claim to be inspired like the Bible writers.
I’m sure they were used by Jehovah, as far as they were in their day, but we don’t consider them leaders or popes. Just imperfect men.

Since they died, Jehovah’s organisation has increased from less than a million to nearly 8 million proclaimers and teachers - While the churches have fallen into critical decline.

The Catholic Church has actually increased, so this is a false statement.

• Why do you think Jesus is allowing a false cult to do the world wide preaching of the Kingdom he prophesied at Matthew 24;14?

Jesus was not speaking about your religion, He was speaking about the Church he founded upon Peter and the Apostles in Matthew 16, not the WTBS that appeared 1900 years later. Where do you think the billions of Catholics that you run across in your door to door ministry came from? And who do you think compiled the bible that you proudly used in your attempts to convert others? Come home, Regardless, to Christ’s Church that He established, and turn away from your man made religion.

 

[SteveVH]

1 Corinthians 5:11, 13. says:
But now I am writing YOU to quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man. 13*while God judges those outside? “Remove the wicked [man] from among yourselves.”

What do you think a Christian should do when another, who has promised to live by God’s righteous standards, decides to abandon them? Should we follow the Christian standard prescribed by Paul or not?

You are implying that all non-JW’s are fornicators, or greedy, or idolaters or revilers, or drukards or extortioners, all of which can be summed up as “wicked”, according to Paul. Can you not at least admit the possibility that one may leave the JW’s and not be any of these things? I remember coming across a “Watchtower” article from the 1950’s that stated that JW’s should hate the enemies of God with a pure hatred". The enemies of God were defined as non-JW’s. After showing this to a JW friend of mine she was told not to have any more conversations with me.

The practice of “shunning” is very much a cult practice put in place to preassure its members to stay within the fold. As others have said, one thinking of leaving the JW’s had better be prepared to see their life turned upside down.

Perfection (as if JW’s are perfect) is not a requirement of belonging to Christ’s Church. Christ did not come to heal the righteous, but rather the sinner. We all fall into that category. I don’t attend my Church because I am holy, but because I am a sinner in need of God’s mercy. I completely depend upon God’s grace in order to turn away from sin, but when I fail, I am not booted out. If I completely left the Church, it would remain there with its arms wide open to receive me back again should I have a change of heart.

Paul’s admonition to basically not hang around with wicked people is just good advice. If we choose to hang out with wicked people we are placing ourselves in spiritual danger. Our Church gives the same advice and we basically promise God that we will “avoid the near occassion of sin” (which would include running with the wrong crowd) every time we confess our sins.

 

[T_More]

Ok.
When did a JW ever quote Charles Taze Russel or Joseph Rutherford as an authority to you?

Regardless, this is a silly statement. If there was no Russell, there would be no JW’s. Do you think that you would be able to come to understand the changing doctrines that the JW’s have held studying the bible on your own? You believe it because they teach it. For example, Russell taught all would go to heaven, Rutherford changed that. You believe it because Rutherford taught it, not because you arrived at that conclusion at the same time as he did.

Sure, they did their best to teach what the Bible said, but they were not prophets. Nor Cult leaders.

**Regradless, how many times have we gone over this? Do I really need to pull out the many WT articles and publications that have prophesied in Jehovah’s name? Here is one of many examples:

**

Nor did they ever claim to be inspired like the Bible writers.
I’m sure they were used by Jehovah, as far as they were in their day, but we don’t consider them leaders or popes. Just imperfect men.

**“It is vital that we appreciate this fact and respond to the directions of the “slave” as we would to the voice of God, because it is His provision.” Watchtower 1957 Jun 15 p.370

“The Watchtower is not the instrument of any man or set of men, nor is it published according to the whims of men. No man’s opinion is expressed in The Watchtower. God feeds his own people, and surely God uses those who love and serve him according to his own will. Those who oppose The Watchtower are not capable of discerning the truth that God is giving to the children of his organization, and this is the very strongest proof that such opposers are not of God’s organization.” Watchtower 1931 Nov 1 p.327

“Jehovah God has made known to his anointed ones in advance what these scriptures mean.” Watchtower 1931 Jun 1 p.160

You cannot claim to not be inspired and then claim that your religion alone is guided by the Holy Spirit. This contradicts itself.

**

Since they died, Jehovah’s organisation has increased from less than a million to nearly 8 million proclaimers and teachers - While the churches have fallen into critical decline. - Why do you think Jesus is allowing a false cult to do the world wide preaching of the Kingdom he prophesied at Matthew 24;14?

You want to talk about decline? How many Bethel branches have closed in the last couple of years? Why is the WTBS selling off property and releasing many Bethel workers of duties? This is an argument that you don’t want to have, Regardless.

/QUOTE]

 

[T_More]

1 Corinthians 5:11, 13. says:
But now I am writing YOU to quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man. 13*while God judges those outside? “Remove the wicked [man] from among yourselves.”

What do you think a Christian should do when another, who has promised to live by God’s righteous standards, decides to abandon them? Should we follow the Christian standard prescribed by Paul or not?

Paul was not prescribing shunning those who have fallen and have confessed, he was prescribing limiting our association with those who practice sin. If it was simply a matter of shunning everyone and anyone who sins at all, none of us would ever speak to one another since we all are sinners! Paul calls himself a sinner in need of redemption, so this is a twisted misunderstanding of what Paul was saying by the JW’s. This is understandable, since much of the bible is misunderstood when not looked at through the original lense of the teaching authority of the Catholic Church established by Christ.

 

[T_More]

BTW, Regardless, the word “Disfellwoshipping” is not found in the bible, nor is the practiice described anywhere. So think about that the next time you mention to a poster that “Trinity is not mentioned in the bible”.

If it was so obvious in scripture, then why did the WTBS never implement this practice until 1952?

 

[catholic111]

They dont believe in hell. My grandmother when she was younger said they came to her house and they said “would you take your sons hand and stick it on the stove eye”? And she said no that cruel and they would have me in jail. Then they said then why would God make us burn if he loves us so much? And she said because if you dont believe in God and do not have your sins forgiven then you will go and she showed them in the bible where it talks about hell and they tried every way to get around it, but they could not. They also have a different bible than we do. And there is a few people in the world hate the catholic church, but There are millions, however, who hate what they wrongly believe to be the Catholic Church GOD BLESS

 

[Pepband_Mom]

Good Job T More

Trinity is not EXPLICITLY found in scripture “Trinitas” or tri-unity. However, It’s all over the place “IMPLICITLY” & did appear 2nd century in Early Church Fathers ECF writings. I don’t have my Jurgens’ volume 1 handy - But was it Ignatius of Antioch?

Russell started the Watchtower under his own “Authority”. All of us are imperfect but absolutely NONE of us has the AUTHORITY to start a “Church”. To deny the Church Christ Jesus started is to deny scripture and deny Christ Himself, the Word.

From David Currie’s book:
Warren H. Carroll’s “The History of Catholicism” (a mighty resource)

The 4 Ancient Sees (Bishoprics):
Rome, Antioch, Alexandria, Constantinople

All but Rome were infected at one time or another with heresies:
Arianism, Monophysitism, Monothelitism, Nestorianism

The Roman Bishopric has NEVER promulgated heresy and have jealously guarded the Deposit of Faith originally given by Christ Jesus to the Apostles. No Pope, past or present has changed or contradicted any dogma OR has the POWER/ability to CHANGE anything the Church has accepted.
(from Born Fundamentalist Born Again Catholic by David B. Currie, 1996, pp. 88-96)

JW’s struggle in vain to establish some link to centuries past but this is impossible. They did pick up on the Arian heresy & ran with that.

 

[Regardless]

You are implying that all non-JW’s are fornicators, or greedy, or idolaters or revilers, or drukards or extortioners, all of which can be summed up as “wicked”, according to Paul. …

Certainly not. I am not implying that.

That is the kind of thing a JW’s would need to be involved in to be disfellowshipped. (and shunned as critics like to call it)

For example: If I stopped going out in the preaching work, then stopped going to meetings and even lost faith in what the JW’s taught. The congregation would do everything they could to try and re-kindle my spiritual interest.
If I didn’t want it, then that is my decision. I would not be disfellowshipped. I know many who have become inactive for various reasons. I have a close family member in that situation. I visit and spend time, but she doesn’t want to talk religion. OK. I’m there if she want’s me.

Disfellowshipping is different. if I was still coming to meeting, but started having an affair or became a thief. Then that is different.
The congregation elders would get involved. If I carried on such a practice and refused to change - they would probably disfellowship me.
Other JW’s would no longer have anything to do with me - like Paul commanded.

This would continue untill I demonstrated proper repentance. If on reviewing this, the elders decided i had put the sin behind me and changed, I would be welcomed back into the congregation.

How would your church deal with such a situation?
Surely they wouldn’t turn a blind eye?

 

[Kc906]

For example: If I stopped going out in the preaching work, then stopped going to meetings and even lost faith in what the JW’s taught. The congregation would do everything they could to try and re-kindle my spiritual interest.

Who decides, and under what Authority do they choose which “offenses” are deemed worthy of “re-kindling” and which ones are worth of “disfellowshipping?” Using your example, if a Publisher in the congregation decided they wanted to stop their door to door work, but they still wanted to attend meetings regularly, would they be disfellowshipped? By doing so they are still attending meetings, yet directly refusing to continue the truth taught by the congregation elders.

So in this case if they are not disfellowshipped, then would a person in the same situation (attending meetings regularly) be disfellowshipped if they prayed directly to Jesus in a meeting without repenting? John 14:14

Who has the ultimate Authority, Jesus or the “elders” in the congregation?

 

[Pepband_Mom]

St Paul NEVER commands! He EXHORTS his readers

JESUS CHRIST COMMANDS as well as takes OWNERSHIP of HIS COMMANDMENTS

For JW readers out there, how could Jesus call the commandments His unless HE WAS ------ dare I say — God?

 

[kanzaz]

That is fair enough.
We are not opposed to celebrations in general or to the giving of gifts, and do celebrate special occasions like weddings and anniversaries. However, we do not celebrate holidays that have non-Christian religious origins or those that promote nationalism.
Many like to study the Bible with us, but stop short of making changes in their lives. that is their choice. All we can do is share the information we have found. What people do with it is up to them.

As for being a cult: We are not.
Cults usually follow one person, are noted for withdrawing from society and are very secretive about their beliefs and practices.
= How much less secrative could you be about your beliefs than going to strangers doors and saying: “can we please show you what we believe and why?” Ha ha.

Enjoy.

May God Bless you & Direct you back Home to the Truth & God’s Universal Home The Catholic Church .

This is what I know & Have Searched & Have Watched On YouTube Bare with me this maybe A pretty long Post But I feel like I have to reply In God’s Name & In the Holy spirit .

1. I found out that the JW’s have changed their Religion , Doctrine ,& Bible more then I can count ( Which is Cult Like )
2. JW’s Believed the World would End at least 3 Times in the past & present Years 1st in 1975 , again in 1983 & again just this pass few years I believe .
3. Many Ex-JW’s on YouTube all have the Exact Story that Once they Left the Cult as they now Call it Many of The JW members they New Now Shunned the & will Not Speak .
4. Many of the Ex-JW’s On YouTube states the same about the bible & the teaching That they were taught Differently then Whats in their Version of the Bible & They never were Told much upon Attending Kingdom Hall Meetings & once they read A Real bible & tried to understand the Version on JW’s Bible Nothing made Since & they Realized that they were told lies .

Basically Viewing Ex-JW Members they seem Messed up in the Head due to a lot of Messed up cult like Teachings they received while a witness Some are even seeking Counciling to get over the Turama they Received while in The JW Cult .

& Everything I’ve Ever Heard of The JW’s Has never been Good Even as A Kid & been A Baptist My Grandmother & Mother Would tell us kids not to Answer the Door for These people & I as A kid would wonder why.

Now as A Adult & doing some Searching I’ve learned Alot , & Another thing is thw JW’s do not even Call them selves A Church But A Origanization & they run their Origanization like A well runned Brainwashing Cult & that’s The Truth , No Other Religion Shunne’s Its members & Shuts Those Around them Who aren’t apart of their Cult Off most Churches & Religions Keep The doors Open to its Members They do not Shut everyone off & Out of their church like the JW’s do.

Its surprising to me that they haven’t created & started their own JW Community outside some Desert some were such as Building Their own Homes ,schools, Churchs ect ect away from the rest of the world Which Its seems like That’s the only thing left & the only thing they haven’t done yet because many of these types of Origanization’s that are Cult like Do go off & build their own Community Out side the rest of the World so they can Control its Members which the JW does The only Difference is the aren’t Isulating their Members in A Unknown Deserted Community But are Isulating their Members By telling them to Shut themselves Down & off from the rest of the world Which can be still Viewed By many as Isulating JW Members .

& there are many Religion Cults runned in the U.S. Created by Crazy men who think their God & find & get A bunch of Weak mined Followers & thats the beganing of many Cults some as I Discribe above go off & Build their own Communities & Isulate their Members to continue to control them .

I Just Wonder how many man made Religion Cults are out there due to weak mined people.