Hot Thread Time Machine

[Awful_Things]

How would a Baptist convert a pagan? Same way as today. Make friends, give help and support, lead by example and let God do that thing that God does so well. I know, because I was that pagan.

Of course, Baptists don’t have access to devices that may or may not have been used to frighten superstitious surfs into submission, like ghosts and consecrated ground, or priests in finery with a hot-line to God. We don’t really go in for all that hell-and-damnation business either.

Offended?

No not really, you get used to it, but thanks for asking.

Source: Romans 14 (that’s in the book marked “Bible”, toward the back if memory serves)

(wanders off to give the road menders some of the rabbit)

I always find it ironic when one defines “passing judgement” as being critical of another’s religious foundation, and then, in the same post, becomes critical of another’s religious foundations:

Baptists don’t have access to devices that may or may not have been used to frighten superstitious surfs into submission, like ghosts and consecrated ground, or priests in finery with a hot-line to God.

(Maybe I should point out that “judgement” refers, according to the previous verses, to declaring another’s eternal destiny, which this thread does not address.)

It seems the poster also missed the point of this experiment, as it would be impossible, after “winning the pagan over”, to subscribe to a Bible only Christianity in this scenario, and that this fact contradicts much of what modern Baptists claim is the source of finding true and pure Christianity.

I also love the social justice, holier-than-thou offering of the rabbit to the roadmenders, assuming that these individuals have more need of the rabbit than the ones who hunted them for an evening meal for their families.

Judgemental and presumptious - yes, you certainly won us over!

 

[inocente]

It seems the poster also missed the point of this experiment, as it would be impossible, after “winning the pagan over”, to subscribe to a Bible only Christianity in this scenario, and that this fact contradicts much of what modern Baptists claim is the source of finding true and pure Christianity.

I didn’t mention the Bible in how I came to faith, and the idea that faith once gained depends on anything more than the Spirit is a little puzzling. There are illiterate people in the world today that come to be and remain Protestants.

(Maybe I should point out that “judgement” refers, according to the previous verses, to declaring another’s eternal destiny, which this thread does not address.)

Pre-supposing the parasitic nature of my church and hence my faith may be fun for some, but picking apart another’s faith as an intellectual exercise is definitively not fun for me. In what way do you not understand “make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in your brother’s way.”?

Judgemental and presumptious - yes, you certainly won us over!

Since the OP specifically asked for views from Bible-only Christians, I can only say thanks, don’t mention it.

As for the rest of your post, I’m still not offended, you will need to try much harder. By the way, the bit at the end (your “holier-than-thou”) was an allusion back to the meat of Rom 14, but like the rest of my post and the rabbit I just threw, sailed right over my brother’s head. That was me being holier-than-thou again in case you missed it.

 

[Awful_Things]

I didn’t mention the Bible in how I came to faith, and the idea that faith once gained depends on anything more than the Spirit is a little puzzling. There are illiterate people in the world today that come to be and remain Protestants.

Not in the thirteenth century they didn’t. Protestantism is a product of personal interpretation. Plenty came to “faith” through the Spirit, but not misunderstanding of doctrine.

Pre-supposing the parasitic nature of my church and hence my faith may be fun for some, but picking apart another’s faith as an intellectual exercise is definitively not fun for me. In what way do you not understand “make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in your brother’s way.”?

Please qote where I pre-supposed the parasitic nature of your church. Not only were you the first to mention the Baptists, you were the first to hurl an insult at another faith. I simply proposed an intellectual excercise.

As for the rest of your post, I’m still not offended, you will need to try much harder. By the way, the bit at the end (your “holier-than-thou”) was an allusion back to the meat of Rom 14, but like the rest of my post and the rabbit I just threw, sailed right over my brother’s head. That was me being holier-than-thou again in case you missed it.

And being judgemental. Please quit putting stumbling blocks in your brother’s way as we try to get to the root of sola-Scriptura. That’s an approach contrary to Scripture.

 

[grannymh]

The purpose of this thread is to ask any Bible-only Christians to transport themselves back to this merry little group through the Hot Thread Time Machine and help steer us to Christ, but away from the trappings of the “corrupt Catholic Church”, with all of its traditions and man-made rules.

For the sake of atmosphere, we are roasting some rabbit and there is a cool evening breeze.

As I was saying in my earlier post 17, if only my late husband Fred were here. He certainly would set such a young whippersnapper as yourself on the road to righteousness. Why my granddaughter married a heathen without consulting me is…by the way, what is your name so I can address you properly?

As your new granny-in-law, it is my duty to know your personal story, including your background. As the saying goes, there are heathens and there are heathens; so tell me about yourself.

 

[Awful_Things]

As I was saying in my earlier post 17, if only my late husband Fred were here. He certainly would set such a young whippersnapper as yourself on the road to righteousness. Why my granddaughter married a heathen without consulting me is…by the way, what is your name so I can address you properly?

As your new granny-in-law, it is my duty to know your personal story, including your background. As the saying goes, there are heathens and there are heathens; so tell me about yourself.

Role-playing - excellent. I told my kids we’d go and try to catch some fish this morning, so I’ll slip back in time and answer later. I the meantime, any of my fellow heaathens are welcome to chime in with personal stories and all that.

 

[inocente]

Maybe so. I’ll let you get back to your time-warp. Maybe someone with better manners will have more luck.

Wise words.



(goes off to walk the dogs)

 

[FathersKnowBest]

Well, I tried my best. A side note:

As one who left the Catholic Church relatively recently for a Disciples of Christ denomination (“no Creed but Christ”), and as one with maybe a more unusual slant, I agree with the first part of the Catholic argument: there were no protestants until the 1500’s, not really. Before that it was pretty-much Catholic and Orthodox (in the West, the Catholic Church was the only game in town). I don’t think people from the 1200’s would be open to the Protestant movement, or that that sort of reformation would be appropriate for them. Protestantism, and the more open Christianity that followed, required many things unavailable: literacy and the publication of western literature by press being two of them.

Actually, you’re incorrect. What was required was a relatively uneducated clergy owing to the recent spate of outbreaks of the plague.

I see the reformation as an improvement on Christianity, from the way that it was, which itself was an improvement from the way the Apostles had it.

Wait. Did I understand you to say that you want to improve on Christ’s teachings?
Hmmm …
No, thanks.

Christ’s vision can be interpreted only speculatively, and likely was more far-reaching and more decentralized than people would have it. It must have gotten “messed up” very early on;

Yes, for your interpretation to be correct, it must have gotten “messed up” almost immediately. In fact, while St. John was still alive!

We are more sophisticated now. I’d expect Christianity to follow the trend.

Ahhh. A “new and improved” version of God?
Again, no, thanks. I’ll take the immutable God.

 

[tiffinwood]

I walk up to this bunch of heathens:

“Mark 6:57 says you should never say a creed, that faith alone in Christ alone is sufficient for salvation, and that you should never base any moral or theological truth on anything outside the Bible. It’s right there!”

I’d wait a moment…

“What? You mean you don’t have access to a Bible, and even if you did you couldn’t read it? Well, trust your literate better, it’s there, and you better believe it. It’s the Bible, after all, and you don’t want to burn in hell for denying God’s Truth, do you?”

I’ve checked the Ignatius RSV, the New American Bible, both Catholic and the Hendrickson NRSV which is Protestant and there is no Mark 6:57. All end with 6:56.

I time travel both ways.

 

[Awful_Things]

I’ve checked the Ignatius RSV, the New American Bible, both Catholic and the Hendrickson NRSV which is Protestant and there is no Mark 6:57. All end with 6:56.

I time travel both ways.

I believe he was being facetious.

 

[Awful_Things]

As I was saying in my earlier post 17, if only my late husband Fred were here. He certainly would set such a young whippersnapper as yourself on the road to righteousness. Why my granddaughter married a heathen without consulting me is…by the way, what is your name so I can address you properly?

As your new granny-in-law, it is my duty to know your personal story, including your background. As the saying goes, there are heathens and there are heathens; so tell me about yourself.

I’m a 28-year-old widow - four kids. My wife died while milking our only cow. My name is Orich. I’m blind in my left eye (my brother poked it when I was a kid). I’ve never been exposed to much religion of any sort, but am open to what I feel in my heart is a call from God. I’m a farmer by trade.

 

[tobbias88]

Quote from earlier post:

I see the reformation as an improvement on Christianity, from the way that it was, which itself was an improvement from the way the Apostles had it.]

I can’t believe someone (Christian??) could actually say that - presumably tongue-in-cheek.
The nearer to the Source, surely the more perfect? The Apostles - in fact no one for about 400yrs needed a Bible - since they had direct experience of the Risen Lord himself.

As we become more distant, things start to go fuzzy so an official order of events & precepts has to be written down. Hence we have the collation of the most important, necessary books - oodles of other scrolls were discarded. The ironic part is that most Protestants don’t know that all their ‘knowledge’ of God and Jesus is based on this Catholic selection. They tend to treat THE BIBLE (as Muslims treat THE KORAN ) - as if God himself had written it.

Unity and Uniformity persisted for many centuries but after the Reformation, dissent arose as to what was really true & necessary for Salvation so that today we have a zillion sects all claiming to be the ‘true Church’. According to World Christian Encyclopedia, there are “over 33,000 protestant denominations in 238 countries,” having increased in number from 8,196 in 1970. Every year there is a net increase of around 270 to 300 denominations.

I doubt if any early missionaries had ‘bibles’ with them as such - they would have needed several oxen carts to transport them. They told the story of the birth, death & resurrection of Jesus Christ and the purpose of his earthly existence. If the listeners accept that this man was indeed the Son of God then that sufficed for their conversion. Very few pagans/heathens had a clear cosmoslogy & so accepted the preacher’s explanation of things. Those who had, like Hindus & Buddhists (& later Muslims) did not. Very little success was achieved in these countries and that is still the case today. This is very understandable - if someone told you that the carpenter nextdoor claimed to be the Son of God, you would probably phone the nearest psychiatric unit.

 

[grannymh]

I’m a 28-year-old widow - four kids. My wife died while milking our only cow. My name is Orich. I’m blind in my left eye (my brother poked it when I was a kid). I’ve never been exposed to much religion of any sort, but am open to what I feel in my heart is a call from God. I’m a farmer by trade.

You must have some good in you since my granddaughter married you.

Maybe it is because both of you have some feelings for God. She knows there is a God because there has to be good in the universe. There is so much beauty everywhere. But you, you have had a lot of mud thrown at you. And your heart says God is calling you. Amazing!

And you haven’t been exposed to much religion. There are lots of people nearby who have lots of ideas about religion this and religion that. But no real experts. So we all do our best to figure out both the verbal and written information handed down by our ancestors. You think about that while your granny-in-law takes a nap.:yawn:

 

[grannymh]

I’m a 28-year-old widow - four kids. My wife died while milking our only cow. My name is Orich. I’m blind in my left eye (my brother poked it when I was a kid). I’ve never been exposed to much religion of any sort, but am open to what I feel in my heart is a call from God. I’m a farmer by trade.

Orich, there must be some good in you since my granddaughter married you.

Maybe it is because both of you have some feelings for God. She knows there is a God because there has to be good in the universe. There is so much beauty everywhere. But you, you have had a lot of mud thrown at you. And your heart says God is calling you. Amazing!

And you haven’t been exposed to much religion. There are lots of people nearby who have lots of ideas about religion this and religion that. But no real experts. So we all do our best to figure out both the verbal and written information handed down by our ancestors. You think about that while your granny-in-law takes a nap.

 

[Awful_Things]

Orich, there must be some good in you since my granddaughter married you.

Maybe it is because both of you have some feelings for God. She knows there is a God because there has to be good in the universe. There is so much beauty everywhere. But you, you have had a lot of mud thrown at you. And your heart says God is calling you. Amazing!

And you haven’t been exposed to much religion. There are lots of people nearby who have lots of ideas about religion this and religion that. But no real experts. So we all do our best to figure out both the verbal and written information handed down by our ancestors. You think about that while your granny-in-law takes a nap.

Oops, sorry. I forgot I was saving rabbit for my wife (your daughter), yet somehow she is also dead. Perhaps I remarried.

 

[Soulewolf]

(i greatly approve of this thread)

i walk in and look around Greetings friends. I’m Justin, a traveling scholar who is always looking for new and interesting perspectives. Perhaps you have some worth sharing?

 

[Bob4BVM]

This is great guys ! Until I can find myself a good persona for this discussion, may i at least suggest that one of you here (who can write) should jot this down and save it for a thousand years so someone can use it as the basis for a screenplay !

 

[Awful_Things]

(i greatly approve of this thread)

i walk in and look around Greetings friends. I’m Justin, a traveling scholar who is always looking for new and interesting perspectives. Perhaps you have some worth sharing?

Hello friend. I don’t know if my perspective is new or interesting, but it is certainly more two-dimensional than most since (post 30) I’ve lost sight in my left eye.

Have some rabbit.

No, not that one, I’m saving it for my dear wife.

 

[adecelles]

I could be wrong, but didn’t Dysonsphere miss the point altogether buy quoting from scripture? In my understanding of the time frame in question, ( an iliterate population, the only bibles were those chained to the lectionary, not to prevent people from reading them but to protect them from being stolen because the Church wanted everyone to have access)
The faithful would go to confession, attend Mass, receive the Most Holy Eucharist and be living witnesses to the shared faith in Christ, having been spiritually feed they would be living examples to this group of heathens, they (the Christians) would possess a sublime inward peace that any heathen would question at least, and desire for themselves at best, this would open the dialogue of faith and the sacramental lifestyle that created and continues to support the faithful to this very day.

 

[Soulewolf]

Hello friend. I don’t know if my perspective is new or interesting, but it is certainly more two-dimensional than most since (post 30) I’ve lost sight in my left eye.

Have some rabbit.

No, not that one, I’m saving it for my dear wife.

Thank ye kindly! Noms a bit and takes a swig from a hip flask So what brings all of you guys here tonight?

 

[grannymh]

Oops, sorry. I forgot I was saving rabbit for my wife (your daughter), yet somehow she is also dead. Perhaps I remarried.

It was your trip to Las Vegas where you met my granddaughter. You definitely had too much ale and not enough rabbit. Never mind, when you get your head set straight on your shoulders, I will tell you about your Savior, Jesus. He’s your personal Savior.
It is a good thing I am only your old and tired granny-in-law or I would have you hung by your toenails.