Hot Thread Time Machine

[Awful_Things]

Thanks for the invite to the campfire! Hopefully, the logs you’re all sitting on can accommodate one more bottom.

Since you brought up trappings and corruptions, good sir, I’d love to hear your take on your more recent pope, Innocent IV. I hear he was a rampant nepotist, worse than any that came before him. And abused the passing around of benefices for his own gain. Would that qualify as a ‘trapping’ or ‘corruption’?

Hmm, not sure where I brought corruptions and trappings. Maybe I did, but haven’t read my own posts for a while. Can you reference a post #? I’m not sure what you mean by referring to “your recent pope”? I am a heathen, as some of have called me, and have no knowledge of what a “pope” is.

But the talk of corruptions and trappings does concern me. Is he something like the fellows I hear about who followed this Christ figure, one who apparently sold him to his death for some silver? This is troubling, and good reason not to follow the teachings of this Christ, no? Surely no leader in the true Church would in any way allow himself to be corrupted. There will, as my father used to say, be no weeds among the wheat and no wolves among the flock in a true faith.

 

[Major_Tom]

Hmm, not sure where I brought corruptions and trappings. Maybe I did, but haven’t read my own posts for a while. Can you reference a post #? I’m not sure what you mean by referring to “your recent pope”? I am a heathen, as some of have called me, and have no knowledge of what a “pope” is.

But the talk of corruptions and trappings does concern me. Is he something like the fellows I hear about who followed this Christ figure, one who apparently sold him to his death for some silver? This is troubling, and good reason not to follow the teachings of this Christ, no? Surely no leader in the true Church would in any way allow himself to be corrupted. There will, as my father used to say, be no weeds among the wheat and no wolves among the flock in a true faith.

No curveballs intended, kind host…! From your inaugural missive (post #1):

The purpose of this thread is to ask any Bible-only Christians to transport themselves back to this merry little group through the Hot Thread Time Machine and help steer us to Christ, but away from the trappings of the “corrupt Catholic Church”, with all of its traditions and man-made rules.

 

[Awful_Things]

No curveballs intended, kind host…! From your inaugural missive (post #1):

Ah, good. I was afraid you were implying I had said something about the corruptions of Protestantism, and I was sure I hadn’t. I understand now. By “corruptions”, though, I was speaking of corruptions in teachings, though I didn’t make clear. However, your question was fair enough, and I answered in my previous post. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[grannymh]

As Granna, who claims to be my mother-in-law (though I’ve never met her before she wandered up to our camp and passed something called a “cass a roll” around) once said:

Unfortunately, your granny-in-law ate some of her “cass a roll” after it had been sitting in the hot sun for a week. She up and died.

[translation. granny is in the midst of some serious research for some other threads and needs to concentrate on this century.:sad_yes:]

Blessings,
granny

The human person is worthy of profound respect from the moment of conception.

 

[Soulewolf]

blinks and looks around as the female he was chatting to suddenly keels over and disapears from existance well if thats not the most confusing thing…

he then shrugs and looks around at the other two around the camp fire and greets them so what brings you two chaps here tonight?

 

[Major_Tom]

By “corruptions”, though, I was speaking of corruptions in teachings, though I didn’t make clear. However, your question was fair enough, and I answered in my previous post. Thanks for clarifying.

Maybe the fire is getting in my eyes… I must have missed that answer!

 

[Major_Tom]

blinks and looks around as the female he was chatting to suddenly keels over and disapears from existance well if thats not the most confusing thing…

he then shrugs and looks around at the other two around the camp fire and greets them so what brings you two chaps here tonight?

Evening. This self-described pagan over here and I are just beginning a conversation. He’s never heard of the Church or the Pope, he says. Fancy yourself a pagan or a religious man, are you?

 

[Awful_Things]

Maybe the fire is getting in my eyes… I must have missed that answer!

No problem. It was in the post you replied to:

I’m not sure what you mean by referring to “your recent pope”? I am a heathen, as some of have called me, and have no knowledge of what a “pope” is. But the talk of corruptions and trappings does concern me. Is he something like the fellows I hear about who followed this Christ figure, one who apparently sold him to his death for some silver? This is troubling, and good reason not to follow the teachings of this Christ, no? Surely no leader in the true Church would in any way allow himself to be corrupted. There will, as my father used to say, be no weeds among the wheat and no wolves among the flock in a true faith.

 

[Major_Tom]

No problem. It was in the post you replied to:

Forgive me, maybe I’ve ingested too much mead…

You claim to be a heathen, having heard of Jesus but not Peter’s successor… yet claim there are no corruptions or trappings in the church that his heirs have built. Does nepotism warrant as a corruption? Or torture?

You know, you’ve got the look of a heretic about you, friend. Friendly word of advice to you: you’d better be careful. You wouldn’t want to have to defend your faith to a couple of traveling Dominicans who are looking for pagans, would you?

 

[Awful_Things]

Forgive me, maybe I’ve ingested too much mead…

You claim to be a heathen, having heard of Jesus but not Peter’s successor… yet claim there are no corruptions or trappings in the church that his heirs have built. Does nepotism warrant as a corruption? Or torture?

Only vaguely of Jesus. I know there are groups that claim to follow him, and it is from them that have heard of them. Peter’s successors? I’m sorry, you’ve lost me brother.

Nepotism? I don’t know. Should it necessarily? Did this Jesus have any sibblings that he put in a position of authority in his Church?

Torture? I assume you are referring to the follower of Christ who sold his own leader over to torture, yes, and also death. Are you suggesting I stay away from anything that this Christ individual did?

You know, you’ve got the look of a heretic about you, friend. Friendly word of advice to you: you’d better be careful. You wouldn’t want to have to defend your faith to a couple of traveling Dominicans who are looking for pagans, would you?

Shrug. I’ve had too much ale to be concerned with that tonight.

 

[Major_Tom]

Nepotism? I don’t know. Should it necessarily? Did this Jesus have any sibblings that he put in a position of authority in his Church?

Jesus? Not that I know of… Ironically, though, the man who claims to be his successor (this Pope that you’ve never heard of) is a purveyor of it, to the worst sort.

Torture? I assume you are referring to the follower of Christ who sold his own leader over to torture, yes, and also death. Are you suggesting I stay away from anything that this Christ individual did?

Judas? No! But a darkly ironic analogy you’ve drawn! Again, the man who claims to represent your Jesus has recently advocated torture on heathens. An act a little closer to Judas, and not Jesus. Good observation, friend! Can I top off your glass…?

Shrug. I’ve had too much ale to be concerned with that tonight.

No worries. In a way, you could say that I was on the run, too…

 

[Awful_Things]

Jesus? Not that I know of… Ironically, though, the man who claims to be his successor (this Pope that you’ve never heard of) is a purveyor of it, to the worst sort.

Honestly, it makes quite a bit of sense to me. I come from a land where farms and family trades are passed through families. Is this sinful of them?

Judas? No! But a darkly ironic analogy you’ve drawn! Again, the man who claims to represent your Jesus has recently advocated torture on heathens. An act a little closer to Judas, and not Jesus. Good observation, friend! Can I top off your glass…?

Judas was a representative of Jesus, no? And handpicked by him? As you are suggesting, this is enough to reject all that Jesus has brought since a man representing him fell into such great sin. Thank you for helping me to avoid the trappings of the followers of Christ. Any group which a man like this Judas would represent must be rejected.

 

[Prophesy]

Jesus? Not that I know of… Ironically, though, the man who claims to be his successor (this Pope that you’ve never heard of) is a purveyor of it, to the worst sort.

The Pope claims lineage from a fisher handpicked by the Lord to lead the Twelve. His seat is that of Peter, but the authority is given by Christ.

-Prophecy

 

[Major_Tom]

Honestly, it makes quite a bit of sense to me. I come from a land where farms and family trades are passed through families. Is this sinful of them?

Are you defending the concept of nepotism, or merely this particular instance? I’d be surprised if you were only defending this instance, as you claim that you don’t know of this Pope.

Judas was a representative of Jesus, no? And handpicked by him? As you are suggesting, this is enough to reject all that Jesus has brought since a man representing him fell into such great sin. Thank you for helping me to avoid the trappings of the followers of Christ. Any group which a man like this Judas would represent must be rejected.

I am suggesting no such thing. You’re the one who keeps inserting this Judas chap into the mix!

 

[Major_Tom]

The Pope claims lineage from a fisher handpicked by the Lord to lead the Twelve. His seat is that of Peter, but the authority is given by Christ.

-Prophecy

I just finished reading a survey of the Popes, mostly from the Great Schism to modern times. It reminded me very much of the weaknesses of the monarchy. One good King… one ****** King… one good Pope… one nepotist who bribed cardinals to vote him into office… and these bribed cardinals are the ones who elect the next Pope! No wonder every other Pope seems to have reform on his mind.

For me, the link that connects the current Pope to Peter was broken along time ago.

 

[Soulewolf]

Evening. This self-described pagan over here and I are just beginning a conversation. He’s never heard of the Church or the Pope, he says. Fancy yourself a pagan or a religious man, are you?

Me? Oh i’m just a learner. Dont really subscribe to any of those groups. I prefer to look at the world through many different viewpoints with the hopes that one day I will be able to look at it through a more objective paradigm.

 

[Awful_Things]

Are you defending the concept of nepotism, or merely this particular instance? I’d be surprised if you were only defending this instance, as you claim that you don’t know of this Pope.

I am suggesting no such thing. You’re the one who keeps inserting this Judas chap into the mix!

I’m defending nothing. I subscribe to no belief system. I’m just saying your wonderful argument about corruption, with this Judas being the prime example, has persuaded me to stay far away from Christiniaty. Thank you, friend, for opening my eyes. Have some rabbit.

 

[Major_Tom]

Me? Oh i’m just a learner. Dont really subscribe to any of those groups. I prefer to look at the world through many different viewpoints with the hopes that one day I will be able to look at it through a more objective paradigm.

Fair enough! Have a s’more. (Did they have s’mores in the 1200’s?)

 

[Major_Tom]

I’m defending nothing. I subscribe to no belief system. I’m just saying your wonderful argument about corruption, with this Judas being the prime example, has persuaded me to stay far away from Christiniaty. Thank you, friend, for opening my eyes. Have some rabbit.

Draw your own conclusions, I’m just looking for thoughtful discussion.

Have a s’more. I made two.

 

[adecelles]

I just finished reading a survey of the Popes, mostly from the Great Schism to modern times. It reminded me very much of the weaknesses of the monarchy. One good King… one ****** King… one good Pope… one nepotist who bribed cardinals to vote him into office… and these bribed cardinals are the ones who elect the next Pope! No wonder every other Pope seems to have reform on his mind.

For me, the link that connects the current Pope to Peter was broken along time ago.

The fact that “some” of the Popes did not live up to the expectations of the office ( the Peter Principle - in a hierarchy every employee tends to rise to his level of incompetence, coincidentally not named so, for Peter the Apostle) in no way breaks the line of succession, no human man could be expected to live up to the office that Christ gave to Peter and his successors, it is only by the grace of God and the intervention of the Holy Spirit that the one true church continues, “the gate of the netherworld shall not prevail against it” given the nature of most human organizations the Catholic Church has continued to stand despite who the leader is good or bad. (Good Popes become Saints, Bad Popes become ammunitoin for arguments against the validity of the office) You are entitled to an opinion, how many are in your camp?