Hours/Office questions

[FrostArcana]

1. Is there a list of all currently approved liturgical offices that may be said in English vernacular? Is it just the modern little office and LOTH?
2. On Christian prayer and shorter Christian prayer: I keep reading in reviews that they are confusing to use. I want to buy one since I’d rather wait for the new translation to get the four volumes than get it now. How confusing is it really? Could I begin using it properly after looking at the guide on the same day I get it in the mail?
3. Do people who attend the EF say the LOTH? The calendars don’t sync
4. Can I replace the Our Father translation when saying the LOTH? I really don’t like it at all and I don’t say it during any other prayers (the “art in heaven, hallowed be” version)
5. Do I have to sing any parts of the office?
6. If one were to recite the whole thing each day, how many hours does it take?
7. What is the imitation leather on Christian prayer actually made of?

Any help appreciated

 

[Fauken]

Do people who attend the EF say the LOTH? The calendars don’t sync

Yes. In fact one can pray the EF LOTH.

 

[FrostArcana]

What/where is the EF LOTH? Can it be said in English? I assume it differs from the 62 one that has to be said in latin

 

[FrostArcana]

I’m using the divineoffice site, but I do eventually want a book, so I can take it places, morning prayer in the park, less screentime, etc (divine office dot org)

 

[gotDoug]

1. Do I have to sing any parts of the office?

No. While it is encouraged and laudable to sing the psalms, I imagine very few lay people actually do.

1. If one were to recite the whole thing each day, how many hours does it take?
   Any help appreciated

That depends on you and by what you mean by whole thing. Do you mean the five required hours for clergy, or all seven hours? How fast are you reading the psalms? Are you taking a moment of silence to reflect on the psalms and readings?
For me, Morning, Evening, and the Office of Readings each usually take 14-18 minutes.
Midday Prayer takes me around 8 minutes.
Night Prayer takes me around 6 minutes.

 

[FrostArcana]

All the hours. I say things like of slow, from the time range you give, that is not very long, very doable. Thank you

 

[Fauken]

What/where is the EF LOTH? Can it be said in English? I assume it differs from the 62 one that has to be said in latin

That is the EF LOTH.

 

[Cor_ad_Cor]

Answering you below in the bold.

• Is there a list of all currently approved liturgical offices that may be said in English vernacular? Is it just the modern little office and LOTH? Theres some debate about this; if you aren’t obligated to the Office, you aren’t necessarily tied to certain versions. The disagreement is about which versions are acceptable if you are obligated. There are English versions associated with your country of residence, and there are versions sometimes associated with your religious order (if applicable).
• On Christian prayer and shorter Christian prayer: I keep reading in reviews that they are confusing to use. I want to buy one since I’d rather wait for the new translation to get the four volumes than get it now. How confusing is it really? Could I begin using it properly after looking at the guide on the same day I get it in the mail? I haven’t used or looked at Shorter Christian Prayer in ages, but I didn’t think it was complicated; Christian Prayer is what I use daily, and while I’m not sure it’s a quick figure-it-our-in-a-day, it’s not terrible. I used it in tandem with one of the apps for a while until I felt I didn’t need (and have not since used) the guide.
• Do people who attend the EF say the LOTH? The calendars don’t sync Correct, there are folks who do both, although it sounds confusing to me!
• Can I replace the Our Father translation when saying the LOTH? I really don’t like it at all and I don’t say it during any other prayers (the “art in heaven, hallowed be” version) What version do you use? It’s the same as at Mass.
• Do I have to sing any parts of the office? No, but the hymn is part of each hour. If I don’t know the tune, I often read it as a poem.
• If one were to recite the whole thing each day, how many hours does it take? Morning Prayer and Evening Prayer take me about 15 minutes each. The others - except the Office of Readings - take 10 or less. OOR takes me 20-30 depending on how much I need to re-read passages due to distractions.
• What is the imitation leather on Christian prayer actually made of? Not sure, but I’m well pleased with the quality.

 

[phil19034]

1. Is there a list of all currently approved liturgical offices that may be said in English vernacular? Is it just the modern little office and LOTH?

I don’t understand this question. The “approved liturgical offices” are:

• Office of Readings (Matins)
• Morning Prayer (Lauds)
• Daytime Prayer (which is 1, 2 or 3 of the following)
  • Midmorning Prayer (Terce)
  • Midday Prayer (Sext)
  • Midafternoon Prayer (None)
• Evening Prayer (Vespers)
• Night Prayer (Compline)

1. On Christian prayer and shorter Christian prayer: I keep reading in reviews that they are confusing to use. I want to buy one since I’d rather wait for the new translation to get the four volumes than get it now. How confusing is it really? Could I begin using it properly after looking at the guide on the same day I get it in the mail?

They are easy to use. But I would suggest that you buy Christian Prayer, and not the shorter one. Also, I would suggest you try to buy a copy of Christian Prayer published by the Daughters of St. Paul (Pauline Books and Media) instead of the version from Catholic Book Publishing. This version includes the 3 Daytime Prayers.

1. Do people who attend the EF say the LOTH? The calendars don’t sync

Some do, like me. There are many people who attend the EF who are also Lay Dominicans, Lay Carmelites, Lay Franciscans, etc. All of these people who attend the EF & are also part of a Third Order will pray the OF LOTH often (or at least when in community).

1. Can I replace the Our Father translation when saying the LOTH? I really don’t like it at all and I don’t say it during any other prayers (the “art in heaven, hallowed be” version)

What???

1. Do I have to sing any parts of the office?

No, you can speak all of it, even the hymn. Or you can chant/sing the whole thing. Totally up to you.

1. If one were to recite the whole thing each day, how many hours does it take?

Office of Readings is the longest one. That can easily take 20+ minutes by itself. Lauds & Vespers are easily 10+ minutes. Compline & the three Daytime Prayers can easily be 5-10 minutes each.

1. What is the imitation leather on Christian prayer actually made of?

No idea. But as I said above, I would buy the version from the Daughters of St. Paul (Pauline Books and Media)

 

[FrostArcana]

Thank you @phil19034 and @Cor_ad_Cor . What I mean about the Our Father, is instead of reciting the translation that is in the book, replacing it with one like this:

Our Father who is in heaven, may your name be treated as holy.

10 May your kingdom come, may your will be done on earth as it is in heaven.

11 Give us today our daily bread,

12 and forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors.

13 And do not bring us into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one.

For yours is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, forever and ever, amen.

---

I use this version everywhere else (rosary, private devotions, etc) since I prefer its translation over other ones.

Daughters of St. Paul seems like they stopped publishing the Christian Prayer, I’ll see if I can get a used one though phil. Thank you

 

[Cor_ad_Cor]

While some people won’t like it and there’s the question of crossing the line of liturgy/private devotion, there are also many people who prefer alternative and unofficial translations, so on the Our Father, I say “you do you” unless you’re planning to pray in a group with others. I have a few variations on the entire office - and not all are liturgically approved or acceptable, but they each lend themselves to prayer.

My copy of Christian Prayer is from CBP — no complaints! It has all that I need.

 

[otjm]

I am of a contrary opinion for a couple of reasons, as to which one to purchase.

I always suggest Shorter Christian Prayer. It was what I started with when I was in college seminary; we said Lauds and Vespers in community, and Compline on our own. Although it leaves out a good bit (the other hours, and etc.) it is a great place to start without making a larger investment.

Some people are very involved with the LOTH, even though they may not say all the hours. Others say it on a less regular basis; and IMHO until one has done the LOTH consistently for 6 months to a year, it may fit well into your prayer life, or you may find that you, for whatever reason, are not consistent. So a less expensive and less extensive way of entering into the LOTH is to start there.

Looking on Amazon, Shorter Christian Prayer is listed at about $22.50 new, and about $15 used. And it works - I used it for two years in the seminary, and when I left, I continued with it for a number of years.

Christian Prayer, the large one volume is more extensive; and more expensive. In imitation leather, it is about $44 to $49 new; I did not see a “used” price.

The 4 volume LOTH is at about $149.

Each set has a guidebook, a small paper guide put out under the name of St. Joseph Guide to (fill in the name) that costs about $1.50 to maybe $2.50. Yes, there are apps, but I can carry the guidebook in the back of the volume I am using.

If you have a good Catholic bookstore anywhere near you, I would suggest stopping by as they are likely to all three of the versions above and the proper guidebook; and while I use Amazon, I try to support my local store. It helps the store owner, and you can look and see.

I was going to say the covers came from imitation cows (groan); they generally are made of cloth with a PVC coating.

 

[phil19034]

Daughters of St. Paul seems like they stopped publishing the Christian Prayer, I’ll see if I can get a used one though

They stopped publishing it in America, but they still publish it in the Philippines.

You can either buy it (used or new) on Amazon or by it online from Pauline Books & Media in the Philippines

https://www.amazon.com/Christian-Pr...41C4QTQ0ERE&psc=1&refRID=RHPABW5TK41C4QTQ0ERE

 

[Windmill]

Blockquote Is there a list of all currently approved liturgical offices that may be said in English vernacular? Is it just the modern little office and LOTH?

If you are in the USA, the only English language Office approved for liturgical use in these territories is the modern LOTH. IOW, if you were to use this in a diocesan parish for official liturgical services and have the priest or deacon present satisfying his required promise of praying the Hour, then that’s basically your only choice. I use these delineations very specifically because this changes if you are, say, in a religious-run parish (ex. Benedictine, Dominican, etc…) where their Office is different and in English. Also, if you are just getting together with friends to pray and none are bound to pray the Office, then you can pray whatever you want…it just isn’t liturgical. You could pray the Office approved for use in Britain, you could pray the English translation of the 1962 Breviary, you could pray the Little Office of the BVM. It doesn’t matter because it’s private prayer at that point. God is pleased.

The Little Office putout by Catholic Book Publishing (compiled by Fr. John Rotelle, OSA) is only approved for private use. It conforms to the LOTH, but the Little Office was never officially reformed after Vatican II, so there is no editio typica (typical edition, or rather, official Latin text from which all vernacular translations must be based on). Paul VI encouraged people to pray the LOBVM, but clearly emphasized his preference that Catholics focus more on the LOTH since the whole point was to draw people more into liturgical worship of the Church and de-emphasize private devotions.

 

[Windmill]

Blockquote On Christian prayer and shorter Christian prayer: I keep reading in reviews that they are confusing to use. I want to buy one since I’d rather wait for the new translation to get the four volumes than get it now. How confusing is it really? Could I begin using it properly after looking at the guide on the same day I get it in the mail?

The Christian Prayer/Shorter Christian Prayer books are not really that much more confusing to use than the full LOTH. They are an abridgment of the full Office containing Lauds, Vespers, Compline, and selected readings for Office of Readings and the daytime hours. Because it has to condense so much of the liturgical year and weekly cycles, there’s a lot of times when you are given a list of antiphons for one psalm and you must be aware of what liturgical season you are in so you can use the correct antiphon. Also, when repeating an antiphon after a psalm, you may have to flip back a page to read it. In short, Christian Prayer is not as much a linear read as the LOTH.

If you are waiting for the newer translation, it would make sense to get Christian Prayer, the guide that comes with it, and just start praying. If you really want to add Office of Readings and Daytime prayer go to iBreviary for those prayer times.

Blockquote Do people who attend the EF say the LOTH? The calendars don’t sync

Sure, some do. No, the calendars don’t sync. God is not upset at this. Why should Catholics be upset? There are many versions of the Office across religious orders. There are traditional Offices and contemporary Offices. We forget that there isn’t just one or two Offices in the Western Church.

Blockquote Can I replace the Our Father translation when saying the LOTH? I really don’t like it at all and I don’t say it during any other prayers (the “art in heaven, hallowed be” version)

If praying liturgically, you should use the approved translation. If praying privately, do whatever you want.

Blockquote Do I have to sing any parts of the office?

No. Not even the hymn need be sung.

Blockquote If one were to recite the whole thing each day, how many hours does it take?

Maybe an hour to and hour and a half. This is without chanting and if you are familiar with the structure of the Office (ie, you’re not still getting your feet wet).

Blockquote What is the imitation leather on Christian prayer actually made of?

Imitation cows.

 

[porthos11]

1. Only the modern Liturgy of the Hours is approved to be said in the vernacular.
2. No, they are not confusing. You do need to study the structure and familiarize yourself with the parts though, just as you would the Mass. The Divine Office is Liturgy, so as liturgy, there are ordinary parts and proper parts. It takes some initial study, but then you’ll get right to it once you understand the principles. It’s “confusing” only for people who leap right in without bothering to read the General Instruction, the Ordinary, understand the ranking of liturgical says (Sundays, Solemnities, Feasts, Memorials, Optional Memorials, and Ferials) and the principles that govern each day.
3. Yes. And yes, the calendars don’t sync. And no, that is not a problem. You celebrate the day as specified in the modern calendar for the Liturgy of the Hours, and you hear the Mass according to the 1962 calendar. No problem.
4. No. Whether you like it at all is not relevant. You use the texts approved for liturgical use by your conference of bishops. The thing about liturgical prayer is that it’s not about me. We pray in the words the Church gave us. Otherwise, we’ve always been free to pray devotionally. I’m not too fond of some of the hymns, or some of the collects. That does not change anything: I say them exactly as printed because my intention is to pray liturgically, not merely privately. The Liturgy of the Hours is not about me.
5. No, but some parts are more appropriately sung, notably the hymn.
6. If recited, with the hymn sung, Morning Prayer and Evening Prayer is about 20 minutes each, give or take. Each Daytime Hour is about 10 to 15 minutes. Night Prayer is done in about 5 minutes and the Office of Readings takes about half an hour.
7. “Imitation Leather” is a leather-like vinyl cover.