Housework: What's Fair?

[bumby]

My point is that you don’t seem grateful for what he does but annoyed because he’s not following your orders about what needs to be done.
If you didn’t work he would be financing the entire household, no parent gets to stay home these days without an income producing spouse, or a rich family.
That’s how it seems, and that’s just me. He may find your treatment acceptable but yours does not sound like a happy home.

How dare you comment on the happiness or lack thereof of my home! You know nothing about me! I was asking about people’s domestic set ups to fry an idea of what was reasonable or not for me to ask my husband to help out with.

I may have displayed some kind of anti male sentiment unwittingly in some posts but there are clearly some anti female comments, too.
The only reason I wouldn’t work at all is if I was looking after preschoolers, which I do. Otherwise there would be no need for me to be at home during the day. If I didn’t have a paid job and was at home with school age children I would do it all myself and would accept that was my role but clearly I need to shut up, get my pinny on and get to it.

I know he works extremely hard at work and I admire him for that, and he is an excellent father. I just do not see however, why he should burn himself out at work when I don’t have the same option. I might just see what happens if I do that.

 

[underacloud]

Not so easy. If I want any sort of productive/enjoyable career these days, I have to work. Alas employers aren’t impressed that you’ve taken five years off to rear the next generation.

Well, that’s your choice of course. Three days seems like a lot and surely you can maintain a reasonable industry involvement with a day or two. And as an employer myself I think your generalisation goes too far. But only you can say with regard to your specific industry/job. I still think you have to recognise that it’s your choice to do so and that comes with compromises in other areas. A family with two working parents will not be able to keep up with chores in the same way that a family with a stay at home parent can.

Maybe your husband should do more to help. Or maybe your expectations are too high to begin with. I suspect the truth lies somewhere in between.

 

[LilyM]

I know he works extremely hard at work and I admire him for that, and he is an excellent father. I just do not see however, why he should burn himself out at work when I don’t have the same option. I might just see what happens if I do that.

Option? You think he has a choice as to whether or not to ‘burn himself out at work’? If he is self-employed or something you may have a point and perhaps should discuss it with him. 5 days a week does not seem excessive though.

 

[28562]

I’m sorry I perhaps overstated the body being ‘wrecked’. I honestly do mourn sometimes for my figure pre-baby, but that is another story. I resent your sentiment that I am anti-man purely because I think generally women are worse off marrying. I only mean this in that they end up doing two shifts - as main caregiver and part breadwinner and housekeeper.

According to you, you are choosing to do two shifts. So if you are worse off, it’s not fair to men and every other woman out there to decry the horrors of marriage for women.I am also making a choice that involves me being awake at school or work for 20 hrs a day, 5 days a week. My wife and I have decided that is what I need to do to make sure we are as financially safe as possible in the future. I don’t complain about things that I bring upon myself. Yes, it sucks. A lot. But it is a temporary sacrifice that we are choosing to make.

 

[28562]

I’m glad you’re happy.

Do you honestly believe I want him to hang up the nappies to dry for our son to wear the next day is me worrying about me, me, me? Clearly your message is, "Don’t ask him to do things, just do it yourself.’ And if he was concerned with doing what’s best for me we wouldn’t be having this conversation!

We have not always been this happy.

All I’m trying to say is that when I stopped keeping score and just focused on doing anything I could for my wife, regardless of whether i was going to benefit or even if it was to my detriment, I found real happiness. But it did not come without a lot of communication and headaches first.

Don’t get so bent out of shape. I’m not anti woman. I’m just anti unfair bashing on anyone.

 

[CradleJourney]

The person who complains does it … or as much as they care to.

Yep! That’s pretty much us

I trust him to do what he can, when he can for the good of our family. Sometimes that’s a huge amount, sometimes it’s just not snoring too loud on the couch. (I reserve the right to bop him with a pillow when I can’t hear the tv.) As the “home manager”, I do find it helpful if I have a list of what needs done handy when that rare day comes when we are both home. Not a list to get finished but as a ‘menu’ of what he can pick do to help us without pressure or confrontation.

He (bless the man!) trusts me as well - and I sure wish I was better at housekeeping than I am. But I’m improving! So out of love, I try to keep him in clean undies and clean dishes. But if not, he knows how to run the washer and where the dish soap is.

The work will NEVER go away - so I know that whatever we don’t get done today (and most of what we do!) will still need to be done tomorrow. So why create hard feelings over such a thing? Anything I want done badly enough gets done - Ditto for him - and we keep the rest in check - sort of

 

[Joannm]

My husband retired (young) and I work full time so he does most of the housework and cooking. He won’t clean the bathroom however so I do that and I usually do the housework on my day off. But no one in my house seems to know how to put dishes in the dishwasher so I do that every night.

 

[JRKH]

My husband retired (young) and I work full time so he does most of the housework and cooking. He won’t clean the bathroom however so I do that and I usually do the housework on my day off. But no one in my house seems to know how to put dishes in the dishwasher so I do that every night.

Just a question…
Have you ever told anyone in your house that they had loaded the dishwasher wrong?
It’s amazing how quickly one can develop an aversion to something based on a single critical comment. Often times we don’t even realize it.

I’m not saying this to be critical of you - your comment above just reminded me of how my dear wife was always so particular about how the dishwasher was loaded or how the laundry was folded. I can’t tell you the number of times that I would put things in the dishwasher and she would follow behind a few minutes later and “fix it”.

Now - in her defense - she was never harsh about it. Never nagged. I actually teased her about it, and recently I was reminded of the folding thing when I saw a “Tide” commercial with a couple folding laundry and the wife tells the husband “you suck at folding”…and they both cracked up laughing.

To tie this all back into the thread…sometimes problems develop because one person has communicated, perhaps subtly, that they wish things done a certain way and so the other person chooses not to do it lest they do it “wrong”.

Like I say - not pointing at anyone - just some food for thought.

Peace
James

 

[JRKH]

Just a question…
Have you ever told anyone in your house that they had loaded the dishwasher wrong?
It’s amazing how quickly one can develop an aversion to something based on a single critical comment. Often times we don’t even realize it.

I’m not saying this to be critical of you - your comment above just reminded me of how my dear wife was always so particular about how the dishwasher was loaded or how the laundry was folded. I can’t tell you the number of times that I would put things in the dishwasher and she would follow behind a few minutes later and “fix it”.
With folding laundry - it wasn’t until much later that I discovered part of why she was so particular. Each thing (especially things like towels) had it’s particular spot in a particular closet and she had arranged things to be the most efficient use of space and this might vary depending on which closet or drawer the item was going into.

Now - in her defense - she was never harsh about it. Never nagged. I actually teased her about it, and recently I was reminded of the folding thing when I saw a “Tide” commercial with a couple folding laundry and the wife tells the husband “you suck at folding”…and they both cracked up laughing.

To tie this all back into the thread…sometimes problems develop because one person has communicated, perhaps subtly, that they wish things done a certain way and so the other person chooses not to do it lest they do it “wrong”.

Not saying this is true in your case, or in the OP’s case…just commenting…

Peace
James

 

[JRKH]

My husband retired (young) and I work full time so he does most of the housework and cooking. He won’t clean the bathroom however so I do that and I usually do the housework on my day off. But no one in my house seems to know how to put dishes in the dishwasher so I do that every night.

Just a question…
Have you ever told anyone in your house that they had loaded the dishwasher wrong?
It’s amazing how quickly one can develop an aversion to something based on a single critical comment. Often times we don’t even realize it.

I’m not saying this to be critical of you - your comment above just reminded me of how my dear wife was always so particular about how the dishwasher was loaded or how the laundry was folded. I can’t tell you the number of times that I would put things in the dishwasher and she would follow behind a few minutes later and “fix it”.
With folding laundry - it wasn’t until much later that I discovered part of why she was so particular. Each thing (especially things like towels) had it’s particular spot in a particular closet and she had arranged things to be the most efficient use of space and this might vary depending on which closet or drawer the item was going into.

Now - in her defense - she was never harsh about it. Never nagged. I actually teased her about it, and recently I was reminded of the folding thing when I saw a “Tide” commercial with a couple folding laundry and the wife tells the husband “you suck at folding”…and they both cracked up laughing.

To tie this all back into the thread…sometimes problems develop because one person has communicated, perhaps subtly, that they wish things done a certain way and so the other person chooses not to do it lest they do it “wrong”.

Not saying this is true in your case, or in the OP’s case…just commenting…

Peace
James

 

[Chantal25]

For those who are married, or were, I am interested to know how you and your other halves share the housework. Could you also give details about other work you do/responsibilities?

My husband is doing less and less around the house and it is getting me very wound up.

Thanks

I think this is between couple and whatever work for them. Some women are content to do everything in the house if they are the stay home, but others are not and it is fine.

I find that if both work, they need to have a plan for the house and to do their best to support each other.

My husband is the stay home dad. He doesn’t have skill with food preparation, laundry and major clean up of the house. So i do this even thought i work full time. What matter to me is that my child is well care for and safe. He helps with light cleaning and dishes but he takes care of recycling/garbage and lawn/driveway.

If your husband spend time with the children when he gets home, this is huge and very important. I wish, i would be able to do this and not having to do the house work but it would be far worst if i wouldn’t have my husband around

It is lent now, it is a great time to offer as sacrifice all of our duties and house work obligation.

Focus on all what your husband do. If he works full time to provide, this is huge and amazing, i only wish i could be the stay home. I would only insist for him to spend time with the children. If he is up to help out, then great, perhaps, you could ask him to clean his clutter if he makes any and to help a little bit with the toy of the children.

All the best!

 

[Chantal25]

I don’t even mind doing more than him because I’m at home more these days but I feel upset at how he doesn’t seem to care that chores need doing and I do my share and more already.

I went through this phase also. Nothing would be done, and unless i would be specific and details, nothing would get done. Then i came to realize that what matter is that he is good with our child and keep her safe. So, i simply decreased my expectation and standard. It was more draining for me to resist then to just accept. Now, he is far more cooperative and he does what he cans. Truly focus on the good thing that you appreciate from him. Keep talking and don’t give up.

We cannot think about what is fair and not fair, we have to do the best with what we got. I bet your husband take a good care of the outside of the house, if so, this is heavy work to do. I know, i used to take care of this myself but it is great that i don’t have to do this and i have my husband to help.

I would be wonderful if my husband would do more and truly put more effort, but he is what he is and i had to make the choice to accept and take what i can get. My health was taking a toll and now, i feel much better. Thing would be far worst if i would be a single mom, so i am grateful for my husband.

All the best!

 

[DiZent]

For those who are married, or were, I am interested to know how you and your other halves share the housework. Could you also give details about other work you do/responsibilities?

My husband is doing less and less around the house and it is getting me very wound up.

Thanks

I can share my experience with this after many years of marriage. It changes. I have worked outside the home all of my adult life. Housework was always secondary to employment, yet there were always things that had to be done - dishes, laundry, cooking, vacuuming, grocery shopping, etc. I never appreciated anyone trying to make me do these things on their schedule, yet left to my own tendencies, I would procrastinate until I had to do it, then the chore became overwhelming. Hubby always did the outside work - lawn, trash, gardening, etc. He was always better at seeing what needed to be done, but his approach to getting me on board often left a lot to be desired.

Hubby worked a physical outdoor job when we met & I worked a desk job. My desk job could be mentally exhausting. He suffered injuries and there were times when my income was primary. There were also times when I worked 2 jobs. I did activities with the kids and he was rarely available to even attend events. Now, my mom lived with us after my step-dad passed & she did a lot of the “piddly work” as she called it, while hubby & I were both working. As she got older & had more health problems, we had to pitch in. At one point, we had 6 adults & a baby living in our house & nobody was doing anything except mom & hubby. Hubby got very frustrated & resentful.

I had to make a change in me. If I was organized in other areas of my life, I could learn to be more organized at home, even if housework did not come natural. Some folks are born organized. I found a group of ladies online and I am not alone in this. There is a great website at flylady.net that gives help & encouragement for “Sidetracked Home Executives”. The basic premise is tackle the household chores 15 minutes at a time. One of the best quotes from FlyLady is: “Housework, done imperfectly, still blesses your family/”. And another: “You are not behind. Just jump in wherever you are.” I was able to change a few of my bad habits & form a few good ones. For a time, it was pretty equal.

When hubby retired, the balance of housework shifted again. He also took care of mom during her last year. I had quit my 2nd job, but started going to school. Hubby does most of cooking & cleaning, & I do more helping. I handle the finances, pay the bills & keep the mail area under control. One of the ongoing issues is that hubby is always home. I work better if he is not underfoot or giving me directions. I am working 2 jobs again

 

[Em_in_FL]

Sounds to me like you guys are pulling pretty equal weight, but there is bad communication and attitudes to go along with it.

I agree… I think this sounds more like the root issue.

I’m sorry I perhaps overstated the body being ‘wrecked’. I honestly do mourn sometimes for my figure pre-baby, but that is another story. I resent your sentiment that I am anti-man purely because I think generally women are worse off marrying. I only mean this in that they end up doing two shifts - as main caregiver and part breadwinner and housekeeper.

I think you’re generalizing a lot.

It’s time for you and your husband to learn how to communicate better. Figure out what works for YOU and YOUR family.

What works for me may not work for you. I work full time (always have throughout our marriage… well, minus 4 maternity leaves). I have always cooked every meal and shopped for all the food. I have always been the one in charge of managing our children’s school work, backpacks, uniforms, lunches, etc. I do most of the household scrubbing (bathrooms, laundry, etc).
My husband more than pulls his own weight in other ways. Neither of us stop during the day. We “work” and “rest” together… at least what we consider to be “work” and “rest”.

You and your husband need to hash out what is “work” and what is “rest”… without generalizing about what women should or should not be doing, as an overall population.

 

[bumby]

We have not always been this happy.

All I’m trying to say is that when I stopped keeping score and just focused on doing anything I could for my wife, regardless of whether i was going to benefit or even if it was to my detriment, I found real happiness. But it did not come without a lot of communication and headaches first.

Don’t get so bent out of shape. I’m not anti woman. I’m just anti unfair bashing on anyone.

I get your point. I do let it go most of the time but I think yesterday I saw my elbow with him.

 

[RedSparklyShoes]

I do the majority of the cooking. He does the majority of the dishes. Other things are different. For example, he’s better if I ask him to do big things like vaccuming or the bathroom rather than organizing papers. Clutter pick up is something I’m better at than him. We probably share the laundry, not sure. I hate how he folds, but I appreciate his efforts.

Right now? I’ve been sick and am still on mandated rest, so while I am feeling a fair bit better, he is doing a ton around the house and taking care of some of my needs as well.

We’ve been married 16 months now and we’re both still learning. He’s learning that I’m not his neat freak mother who tidies up behind him and only his bedroom is a mess. I’m learning that I need to ask differently rather than just assume he’ll realize something needs doing. He’s realizing how happy it makes me to find the kitchen all cleaned up (even if he doesn’t know where to put some stuff and leave a pile for me to put away). He had no idea just how much I did around the house (and grocery shopping) until I took sick and was in bed for nearly 2 weeks and now 6 weeks of reduced workload.

 

[shainski]

Just a question…
Have you ever told anyone in your house that they had loaded the dishwasher wrong?
It’s amazing how quickly one can develop an aversion to something based on a single critical comment. Often times we don’t even realize it.

your observation reminded me of a conversation i had a long time ago. I used to go jogging with a neighbor. She was married and had a lot of children. So her going jogging gave her a little time away from all the chaos of home.

One time she was telling me how she told her husband to put the kids to bed while she was jogging, but that he would do it wrong. She would have to instruct him on how to brush their teeth and wash and getting their pajamas on. Now he was rejecting doing the bedtime thing at all.

She was shocked when i told her. “I wouldn’t do it either”. (Now keep in mind, i was a single guy, so i didn’t have any experience with this). She thought i would be supportive of her.

I told her that she was obviously telling him that he was incapable of doing it correctly (her way). After a while, i would decide that if not matter what i do, i am going to get criticized, i might as well get criticized for not doing it at all.

She was a bit mad at me - but she did take it to heart. after that, she did allow her husband to have his own way to do some of these tasks.

Now back to the OP. It is really hard to compare one household to another on what is fair. Part of the reason for this is comes out of expectations. When my wife and i are doing a deep cleaning (getting ready for party or something, we have to take over separate rooms to clean). We drive each other crazy by our techniques.

If something is really important to be done a certain way, the one who likes it done that way should probably do it. Some of us can live like slobs and not even notice a pile of dirty laundry sitting on the chair next to us. Others of us are sweeping and scrubbing the floor while people are still at the table eating.

If i take the kids to some adventure, my wife is more than happy to do a lot of the cleaning and organizing around the house. Sure, she sometimes thinks she might be missing out on some of the fun, but she also loves having a little time alone.

We also tackle our work differently. I like getting up early in the morning well before anyone else is up and doing dishes or cleaning. My wife would rather stay up after everyone is asleep and doing those things. She would probably be mad at me if she expected i did things on her schedule - or vis-versa.

I don’t know if your household is equitable or not. I don’t think in a marriage, things are always even. Through outside work pressures, kid pressures, health, we go through times when the work load may not be at all equitable. I suppose if it were extremely lopsided and went on for a long time, I would have to figure a way to balance our expectations and duties.

So good luck to you. I don’t know the answer - other than to talk to each other in a charitable way.

 

[28562]

I get your point. I do let it go most of the time but I think yesterday I saw my elbow with him.

We all get to a point where we get frustrated. I have gotten much better at taking a deep breath and using my brain-mouth filter. Really, the key is patience, communication, understanding, and LOVE. It’s not always easy to master it, but it gets much easier after it all becomes habit.

 

[Margy1948]

Well, I did half the housework plus the yard-work. My wife left myself and the kids.

Guess it was one less thing for her to worry about leaving the kids, knowing I could handle keeping up with the household chores- cleaning, cooking, laundry etc.

I’m pretty sure you’re the father of the family and not a same sex spouse, right?

If so, I want to share that I too grew up in what has to be a very unique family, A father bringing up a daughter. My mother died when I was very young.

This is why I was glad when the courts started awarding children to the father on an equal basis, men are fine at the job when they have to do it.

I hope you’re getting child support.

 

[Margy1948]

How dare you comment on the happiness or lack thereof of my home! You know nothing about me! I was asking about people’s domestic set ups to fry an idea of what was reasonable or not for me to ask my husband to help out with.

I may have displayed some kind of anti male sentiment unwittingly in some posts but there are clearly some anti female comments, too.
The only reason I wouldn’t work at all is if I was looking after preschoolers, which I do. Otherwise there would be no need for me to be at home during the day. If I didn’t have a paid job and was at home with school age children I would do it all myself and would accept that was my role but clearly I need to shut up, get my pinny on and get to it.

I know he works extremely hard at work and I admire him for that, and he is an excellent father. I just do not see however, why he should burn himself out at work when I don’t have the same option. I might just see what happens if I do that.

Take it easy, your home doesn’t sound like a happy place, but it’s in your power to fix it because the wife and mother really is the person who sets the tone.
You don’t seem to be aware that there are women ‘out there’ who have agendas, and one of them is to engage with men, they do this for company, for dinner, for intimacy and sometimes for a child.
When a guy is happy at home I would guess that he can blow the temptation off.
Martha Stewart keeps a perfect home, always looks perfect, made lots of money, but she couldn’t keep her man.
It’s not about how clean the house is, apparently.