How a suicide bomber thinks

[pro_universal]

First off:

Yes, there are Christian suicide bombers. It’s documented in “Dying To Win” by Robert Pape, in Lebanon.

Second:

One of the architects of the Palestinian resistence movement of the past was a Christian. Several of the participants in the Munich massacre were Christians.

Third:

These are all people who have stories like the Grandma at the heart of this thread, who became a suicide bomber after Israelis killed her grandson and destroyed her house.

The lesson you can draw from this is that doing violence to people makes them violent. But cestusdei isn’t interested in lessons…he just wants to bash Muslims.

 

[jcaz]

Maryam, I would be happy to be wrong. But I am not. The total lack of protest by Muslim of Muslim atrocities proves me right. If you doubt me then visit www.memri.org. It’s not like Islam hides its hatred for Jews.

You know cest, I see your posts, shake my head, wonder “how this guy calls himself a priest”, wonder how you became so ignorant, and am briefly motivated to try to correct your false hate-filled beliefs, and then realize, that Muslim after Muslim after Muslim have shown you how you are a hate mongerer. You can call yourself a priest all you want. But it is a lie, as you are NOT representative of the church, NOR are you representative of Jesus Christ, peace be upon him.

Your profession is a full-fledged hate mongerer. Period.

You CONSTANTLY make such asinine statements that have been refutted NUMEROUS times to you, directly in this forum. Such as you LIE about Muslims not protesting the attrocities. This is a BLATANT LIE and you as a “priest” or even as a Christian should be ASHAMED. There are probably over a hundred threads on this forum discussing that one subject, and MANY of those threads have links to large, KNOWN Muslim organizations protesting this violence. I personally have supplied you with links regarding these acts of violence, such as links from the scholars of Saudi Arabia.

But you do not care. You IGNORE the refutations and the evidence. You ignore the protests. You ignore everything good that Muslims do. Because you are a professional HATE mongerer. Period. And your only goal is to spew hate and spread your lies and false understandings of Islaam.

May Allaah guide you to the truth. And if you die upon your belief, we ask that Allaah reward you sufficiently.

Jonathan

 

[Eden]

May Allaah guide you to the truth. And if you die upon your belief, we ask that Allaah reward you sufficiently.

Jonathan

I’m just curious about your name, Jonathan. That is not a common Muslim name. Are you a convert to Islam?

 

[Maryam]

cestusdei says:

I have been there too. I was on an Israeli bus when an unattended bag was found. Want to know how people felt? In the West Bank the Christians told me that the Muslims were taking over their land, raping their women, and persecuting them. Some of them said they preferred Israeli rule over the PLO. There are no Jewish or Christian suicide bombers. Only Muslim ones.

I was in the Church of the Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem where someone left an unattended bag to which the Israeli Police were immediately called to check it. It was a false alarm and really at the time I didn’t react at all to it to be honest… It was the same year in which Yitzak Rabin had been assasinated by a fanatical Jew.

My whole time there I felt unusually at peace. Death comes to all, that is a given. No one can escape it.

And as for your statement that there have never been Christian suicide bombers I point you to the first female suicide bomber… In 1985 Loula Abboud a 19 year old Lebanese Orthodox Christian who blew herself up while Israeli solidiers surrounded her. Also several of her uncles and cousins died in Martyrdom operations.

disarmament.un.org/speech/15apr2003JDavis.htm

one of the first female suicide bombers was not even a Muslim, but a Lebanese Christian whose story is well known in the Middle East Loula Abboud, the 19-year-old leader of a resistance group in southern Lebanon, died in a shootout with Israeli soldiers in her hometown of Aoun. Described as brilliant and devout, Abboud came from a family of orthodox Christians and a long line of martyrs. Her cousin, also a woman, spent 10 years of her young live in an Israeli prison after she tried to kill general Lahd, head of the South Lebanese army, Israel’s allies in Southern Lebanon, and several of her uncles and cousins died in martyrdom operations. Abboud probably set the standard for today’s female suicide bombers. She was surrounded by Israeli soldiers and out of ammunition, but she had well prepared for the moment. She detonated an explosive and blew herself up as the Israelis moved in to capture her.

Lest the world forget we have George Habash who was a Palestinian Greek Orthodox Christian that founded the terrorist organization called “Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP)”

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Habash

a leading militant and Palestinian politician, as founder and Secretary-General of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) in 1967-2000.

He was born in Lydda to Greek Orthodox parents.

And another Palestinian Christian Terrorist who also was in PFLP called Wadie Haddad:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wadie_Haddad

Wadie Haddad (1927–1978), a.k.a. Abu Hani, was a Palestinian militant active in the 1960s and 1970s, involved in several terrorist attacks.

Haddad was born to Greek Orthodox parents in Safad, in what is today northern Israel, in 1927.

He studied medicine at The American University of Beirut, where he met fellow Palestinian refugee George Habash.

**(PFLP), **under the leadership of Habash. Haddad became a leader of the group, involved in organizing attacks on Israeli targets. He helped plan the first PFLP airplane hijacking in 1968, when an Israeli El Al plane was captured.

I find that if one truly has FAITH in Christ then we will see the face of Christ in every single person. I think some people need to meditate greatly on the book of JAMES 3:8-9

"8but no human being can tame the tongue. It is a restless evil, full of deadly poison. 9 With it we bless the Lord and Father, and with it we curse human beings who are made in the likeness of God."

All of humanity is prone to evil…no matter what religion they are…

God bless

 

[Maryam]

cestusdei:

I have been there too. I was on an Israeli bus when an unattended bag was found. Want to know how people felt? In the West Bank the Christians told me that the Muslims were taking over their land, raping their women, and persecuting them. Some of them said they preferred Israeli rule over the PLO. There are no Jewish or Christian suicide bombers. Only Muslim ones.

I was in the Church of the Holy Sepulchre where a bag was left unattended, but when Israeli Police were called it turned out to be a false alarm. I really didn’t react to it at the time to be honest. Throughout my whole time over there I felt unusually at peace.

As for your statement of there being no Christian suicide bombers I point you to the first FEMALE suicide bomber, Loula Abboud, a Lebanese Orthodox Christian. In 1985 she blew herself up when surrounded by Israeli solidiers. Also some of her uncles and cousins died in martyrdom operations.

disarmament.un.org/speech/15apr2003JDavis.htm

In fact, as I document in my book, **one of the first female suicide bombers was not even a Muslim, but a Lebanese Christian **whose story is well known in the Middle East Loula Abboud, the 19-year-old leader of a resistance group in southern Lebanon, died in a shootout with Israeli soldiers in her hometown of Aoun. Described as brilliant and devout, Abboud came from a family of orthodox Christians and a long line of martyrs. Her cousin, also a woman, spent 10 years of her young live in an Israeli prison after she tried to kill general Lahd, head of the South Lebanese army, Israel’s allies in Southern Lebanon, and several of her uncles and cousins died in martyrdom operations. Abboud probably set the standard for today’s female suicide bombers. She was surrounded by Israeli soldiers and out of ammunition, but she had well prepared for the moment. She detonated an explosive and blew herself up as the Israelis moved in to capture her. Her mother still lives in Aoun, in a little house at the top of steep hill.

Lest the world forget we have George Habash, an Orthodox Christian who founded the terrorist organization Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP).

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Habash

a leading militant and Palestinian politician, as founder and Secretary-General of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) in 1967-2000.

He was born in Lydda to Greek Orthodox parents.

And Wadie Haddad, also Christian who worked alongside Habash in the PFLP.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wadie_Haddad
Wadie Haddad (1927–1978), a.k.a. Abu Hani, was a Palestinian militant active in the 1960s and 1970s, involved in several terrorist attacks.

Haddad was born to Greek Orthodox parents in Safad, in what is today northern Israel, in 1927.

He studied medicine at The American University of Beirut, where he met fellow Palestinian refugee George Habash.

(PFLP), under the leadership of Habash. Haddad became a leader of the group, involved in organizing attacks on Israeli targets. He helped plan the first PFLP airplane hijacking in 1968, when an Israeli El Al plane was captured.

From where do you think todays terrorist groups in that region got their start and learned their stuff? Hmmm… I wonder where…

All of humanity is prone to evil acts regardless of religion. I think some people need to really meditate on the book of JAMES 3:8-9

**“8but no human being can tame the tongue. It is a restless evil, full of deadly poison. 9 With it we bless the Lord and Father, and with it we curse human beings who are made in the likeness of God.” **

If one truly has FAITH in Christ… We will see the face of Christ in every single human being and what a terror it would be to think that we could hurt Our Lord through speaking ill of our brothers and sisters no matter what religion they are.

God bless

 

[jcaz]

I’m just curious about your name, Jonathan. That is not a common Muslim name. Are you a convert to Islam?

Indeed I am.

 

[cestusdei]

You know cest, I see your posts, shake my head, wonder “how this guy calls himself a priest”, wonder how you became so ignorant, and am briefly motivated to try to correct your false hate-filled beliefs, and then realize, that Muslim after Muslim after Muslim have shown you how you are a hate mongerer. You can call yourself a priest all you want. But it is a lie, as you are NOT representative of the church, NOR are you representative of Jesus Christ, peace be upon him.

Your profession is a full-fledged hate mongerer. Period.

You CONSTANTLY make such asinine statements that have been refutted NUMEROUS times to you, directly in this forum. Such as you LIE about Muslims not protesting the attrocities. This is a BLATANT LIE and you as a “priest” or even as a Christian should be ASHAMED. There are probably over a hundred threads on this forum discussing that one subject, and MANY of those threads have links to large, KNOWN Muslim organizations protesting this violence. I personally have supplied you with links regarding these acts of violence, such as links from the scholars of Saudi Arabia.

But you do not care. You IGNORE the refutations and the evidence. You ignore the protests. You ignore everything good that Muslims do. Because you are a professional HATE mongerer. Period. And your only goal is to spew hate and spread your lies and false understandings of Islaam.

May Allaah guide you to the truth. And if you die upon your belief, we ask that Allaah reward you sufficiently.

Jonathan

I have no need to lie. All I have to do is quote what you Muslims say and show what you do. I am not the one leading riots everytime Muslims say something I don’t like. Christians are not the suicide bombers or terrorists. If all of these things are false then Muslims are doing a very good job of ignoring the problem

Jesus has already led me to the truth which is himself. And I will bet my soul that Jesus is true and Muhammed is not.

 

[cestusdei]

You know cest, I see your posts, shake my head, wonder “how this guy calls himself a priest”, wonder how you became so ignorant, and am briefly motivated to try to correct your false hate-filled beliefs, and then realize, that Muslim after Muslim after Muslim have shown you how you are a hate mongerer. You can call yourself a priest all you want. But it is a lie, as you are NOT representative of the church, NOR are you representative of Jesus Christ, peace be upon him.

Your profession is a full-fledged hate mongerer. Period.

You CONSTANTLY make such asinine statements that have been refutted NUMEROUS times to you, directly in this forum. Such as you LIE about Muslims not protesting the attrocities. This is a BLATANT LIE and you as a “priest” or even as a Christian should be ASHAMED. There are probably over a hundred threads on this forum discussing that one subject, and MANY of those threads have links to large, KNOWN Muslim organizations protesting this violence. I personally have supplied you with links regarding these acts of violence, such as links from the scholars of Saudi Arabia.

But you do not care. You IGNORE the refutations and the evidence. You ignore the protests. You ignore everything good that Muslims do. Because you are a professional HATE mongerer. Period. And your only goal is to spew hate and spread your lies and false understandings of Islaam.

May Allaah guide you to the truth. And if you die upon your belief, we ask that Allaah reward you sufficiently.

Jonathan

I have no need to lie. All I have to do is quote what you Muslims say and show what you do. I am not the one leading riots everytime Muslims say something I don’t like. Christians are not the suicide bombers or terrorists. If all of these things are false then Muslims are doing a very good job of ignoring the problem. The real hate I see comes from Islam and Muslims.

Jesus has already led me to the truth which is himself. And I will bet my soul that Jesus is true and Muhammed is not.

 

[cestusdei]

First off:

Yes, there are Christian suicide bombers. It’s documented in “Dying To Win” by Robert Pape, in Lebanon.

Second:

One of the architects of the Palestinian resistence movement of the past was a Christian. Several of the participants in the Munich massacre were Christians.

Third:

These are all people who have stories like the Grandma at the heart of this thread, who became a suicide bomber after Israelis killed her grandson and destroyed her house.

The lesson you can draw from this is that doing violence to people makes them violent. But cestusdei isn’t interested in lessons…he just wants to bash Muslims.

When I mentioned the idea of Christian suicide bombers both Jews and Muslims scoffed at the idea. We teach that suicide is a mortal sin. Muslims virtually worship suicide bombers as gods. We don’t offer 72 virgins to them.

I just looked up the names of the Munich killers. The names are all Muslim. Not many Christians named Muhammed out there.

Violence makes violence? So you don’t mind then that we retaliate for 911? How about for all the other stuff that Muslims do to Christians? How is it that Christians in Saudi Arabia or Egypt are persecuted when they are a minority and commit no violence? If Hamas launches a violent attack then you don’t mind the IDF returning fire? Islam was violent from the beginning and still is.

 

[Booklover]

A Presbyterian elder was kidnapped in Mosul and shot. a Chaldean Catholic priest was abducted in Baghdad.

The captors contacted Elder Munthir’s family later that day, using his mobile telephone to confirm that they had kidnapped him. Initially demanding US$1 million in ransom, the kidnappers negotiated over the next three days with their captive’s relatives and friends.According to one Mosul source who described the kidnappers’ conversations, “They said, ‘We have him, and we will kill him. We will cut his throat. We will take revenge for the Pope’s words. We will take revenge on all of you. We will kill all the Christians, and we will start with him.’”

jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/014303.php"Religion of “peace” my foot! Muslims are the last ones who should accuse anyone else of being “hatemongers”!

Vickie

 

[chosen_people]

I’m equally sure that if Israel would stop building settlements on land privately owned by Arabs and would pay compensation for property seized in 1948, then the Palestinians would stop fighting Israel.

But that’s not the point-the point is what drives suicide bombing. This thread is an attempt to blame a religion for it, but the fact of the matter is, reading theology books will not explain the phenomenon. If you want to understand terrorism, you have to look at political conditions, and the consistent refusal to do that in cases involving Muslim populations is just plain baffling.

I’m aware of no protestant author, for example, who did a detailed review of Catholic theology in an attempt to understand the IRA’s broad-based popular support in the Catholic community. Neither am I aware of anyone who read the Bible to try and figure out what the various Cristeros groups were doing in South America. But when it comes to Muslims…all attempts possible are made to write off serious political problems as a mere sideshow.

This doesn’t carry the hallmarks of truth seeking behavior.

reply

In 1929 the Arabs of Hebron went on a pogrom against the Jews of the town who had lived there from time immemorial. They killed scores of unarmed innocent men women and children and destroyed the Jewish community there, the survivors being forced to flee for their lives. There was no state of Israel, no 1948 war, no Arab refugees.

During the prestate years the Jews did not have tanks or airplanes, their position was precarious, but they did not see that as an excuse to carry out indiscriminate terrorist acts against civillians.

In April 1948, a month before the declaration of the State of Israel, a month before the invasion of Israel by the Arab armies of six different countries, Arab terrorists detonated a massive bomb on Ben Yehuda st. in Jerusalem, a strictly civillian target. As many as 100 people were killed.

Between 1949 - 1956 some 9000 Fedayeen Arab terrorist raids kill 400 Israeli civillians and wounds some 900. No six day war yet, no Israeli settlements across the green line.

1964- founding of the PLO- its charter calls for the destruction of Israel by violent methods and the killing and banishment of all Jews. No 1967 war yet, no settlements.

So please forgive me “if I’m NOTequally sure that if Israel would stop building settlements on land privately owned by Arabs and would pay compensation for property seized in 1948, then the Palestinians would stop fighting Israel.”

I don’t want to “understand” terrorism and I don’t want to condone it. Let’s not make excuses for it. Its simply morally wrong to target innocent people on the basis of their religion (and your absolutely right with your other examples). It is the act of cowards.

My cousin, a medstudent was killed by an Arab Palestinian suicide bomber in Israel. His family donated his organs. They were implanted on the basis of strict medical need. Ironically all his organs were donated to Arab Palestinians. This week on the same day that a Palestinian Arab suicide bomber killed three people working in their bakery in Eilat (their crime being that they were Jewish and therefore legitimate targets) an Arab Palestinian was sworn in as Minister in the Israeli government (my point being that if my Country’s racist we’re not very good at it).

 

[pro_universal]

In 1929 the Arabs of Hebron went on a pogrom against the Jews of the town who had lived there from time immemorial. They killed scores of unarmed innocent men women and children and destroyed the Jewish community there, the survivors being forced to flee for their lives

And this was certainly a crime, the result of at that time longstanding racial tensions of illegal Jewish immigration into the territory. The Arabs were angry and worried that the thousands of Europeans streaming into their country without permission and without regard for local sovereignty.

The race riots of the late 20’s and 30’s were not out of the blue, and Jewish terrorists groups were already operating at that time as well. There is simply no intellectually honest way to cite these race riots as an example of “unprovoked arab hatred for Jews”, and that implication is especially strange when you note that the community was ancient. Why wasn’t it destroyed “from time immemorial” if the Arabs always hated Jews?

During the prestate years the Jews did not have tanks or airplanes, their position was precarious, but they did not see that as an excuse to carry out indiscriminate terrorist acts against civillians.

There were pre-state Jewish terrorists who used indiscriminate bombings and shootings to agitate racial tensions. There is no serious historical dispute about this. Britain was a target, as well as local Arabs. And compared to the Palestinian Arabs, the Jewish militias and terrorist groups both were far better armed.

In April 1948, a month before the declaration of the State of Israel, a month before the invasion of Israel by the Arab armies of six different countries, Arab terrorists detonated a massive bomb on Ben Yehuda st. in Jerusalem, a strictly civillian target. As many as 100 people were killed.

Yes, and this was part of a pattern of terrorist attacks in which Jewish terrorists were more than willing participants. The bombing of the British Embassy in Rome and the attack on the King David Hotel made Jewish groups the first international terrorists in the region, and there were numerous documented massacres of Arab towns by these same Jewish terrorist groups.

Between 1949 - 1956 some 9000 Fedayeen Arab terrorist raids kill 400 Israeli civillians and wounds some 900. No six day war yet, no Israeli settlements across the green line.

No settlements, but the brutal expulsion of 90 percent of the Arabs inside Israel proper probably had something to do with their being angry. Your pre-state militias used force to expel all but 10 percent of the Arabs who used to live in what became Israel; thousand were killed in the process. I think that might have had something to do with the Fedayeen raids, mostly carried out by people who had been living in Israel just ten years before that.

1964- founding of the PLO- its charter calls for the destruction of Israel by violent methods and the killing and banishment of all Jews. No 1967 war yet, no settlements.

See above. Expulsion of 90 percent of the Arab population from the land between the 1967 line and the Mediterranean would be the source of that.

So please forgive me “if I’m NOTequally sure that if Israel would stop building settlements on land privately owned by Arabs and would pay compensation for property seized in 1948, then the Palestinians would stop fighting Israel.”

Well, considering that every single major Palestinian organization, and every single country in the world (except for the United States and Israel) has endorsed this plan, I think it’s more than fair to say that things have changed.

 

[pro_universal]

** Its simply morally wrong to target innocent people on the basis of their religion (and your absolutely right with your other examples). It is the act of cowards.**

True, but let’s not only tell one side of the story. You did not include Jewish terrorism against the Arabs, Israeli state ethnic cleansing in the independence war, and you did not include Israeli state sanctioned terror tactics against Palestinians after the war.

My cousin, a medstudent was killed by an Arab Palestinian suicide bomber in Israel. His family donated his organs. They were implanted on the basis of strict medical need. Ironically all his organs were donated to Arab Palestinians.

I am truly sorry to hear of this tragedy, and your family are saints for giving even in spite of this terrible crime. I hope that you will reflect on what has happened to your family so that you can see how the Palestinian people feel when an Israeli shell kills an entire family (as in Beit Hanun) or when an Israeli border guard shoots a 13 year old girl (I am referring to Iman Hams).

This week on the same day that a Palestinian Arab suicide bomber killed three people working in their bakery in Eilat (their crime being that they were Jewish and therefore legitimate targets) an Arab Palestinian was sworn in as Minister in the Israeli government

And last week, Israeli soldiers killed nearly a dozen civilians in airstrikes. Why didn’t that prompt you to post a call for civility?

As far as racism, there can be no dispute that the Israeli government has some policies that are racist. Arabs in Israel don’t have an absolute right to have their relatives immigrate; Jews in Israel do. There are no settlements in the West Bank built for Arabs; they are for Jews only. Your intermarriage laws governing Jewish-Arab marriages are blatantly racist.

I hope you do not feel that I am blaming you personally for this, because I am not. I believe in these criticisms though and I would be more than happy to discuss them with you in a respectful and serious manner.

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

… The Arabs were angry and worried that the thousands of Europeans streaming into their country without permission and without regard for local sovereignty.

My understanding is that Palestine was largely uninhabited/desolate, and that the Jews were attracted there for it’s biblical history (and they were trying to escape European persecution).

In 1835, Alphonse de Lamartine visited Palestine, and his book, “Recollections of the East”, he writes, “Outside the gates of Jerusalem we saw no living object, heard no living sound.” In 1867, Mark Twain, who visited Palestine, writes, “A desolation is here… We never saw a human being on the whole journey.” Even the British Consul in Palestine reported, in 1857, “The country is in a considerable degree empty of inhabitants and therefore its greatest need is that of a body of population.”

Ironically, when the Jews started to populate, industry and agriculture flourished. This attracted arabs from neigbouring countries who were looking for prosperity and opportunities.

But it all turned sour; the Arabs just didn’t want to live with the Jews anymore. It reminds one of the situation when the Israelites were accepted into Egypt, but were then later oppressed by an Egyptian Pharoah, as documented in the books of Genesis and Exodus.

 

[Sixtus]

I’m aware of no protestant author, for example, who did a detailed review of Catholic theology in an attempt to understand the IRA’s broad-based popular support in the Catholic community.

With all due respects, I can see where you are coming from. But it does rather suggest that the Catholic community were responsible for the Republican Cause in Northern Ireland.

While it is true that Republicans probably mainly comprised Catholics, it was not only the Nationalists who did the fighting.

You are right in saying that Nationalist organisation’s such as the IRA were seen as ‘terrorists’ but the mainly Protestant 'Loyalist Paramilitaries actually killed more people and carried out far more sectarian executions than the IRA. Yet Loyalists were never seen as ‘terrorists’.

If you asked the average Englishman who did most of the killing in Northern Ireland, he would not hesitate in saying ‘the IRA of course’. He is actually quite unaware they did the least!!!

So, how come the IRA were terrorists, while the Loyalists who did proportionately more sectarian killings and violence were not terrorists, they were merely ‘Paramilitaries’?

I suggest that the definition of a terrorist is ‘one who opposes the dominant groups ideology’. An armed group who terrorise but also support the dominant ideology are not terrorists.

So, the definition of terrorism then has nothing to do with bombing, shooting, terrorising, it is wholly conditional upon ‘which ideology’ they follow

 

[Sixtus]

Another factor: How come Republican Paramilitaries got far more press coverage than Loyalist Paramilitiaries?

It seemed that the IRA ALWAYS made front page news. The Loyalsts by contrast rarely ever did. Why is that do you think?

I leave you to answer the question.

 

[pro_universal]

My understanding is that Palestine was largely uninhabited/desolate, and that the Jews were attracted there for it’s biblical history (and they were trying to escape European persecution).

This is simply not true. There was one book written that claimed this, by Joan Peters, but it has been thoroughly debunked. The land was certainly inhabited…it’s just that most of its inhabitants were expelled in the war that created Israel.

In 1835, Alphonse de Lamartine visited Palestine, and his book, “Recollections of the East”, he writes, “Outside the gates of Jerusalem we saw no living object, heard no living sound.” In 1867, Mark Twain, who visited Palestine, writes, “A desolation is here… We never saw a human being on the whole journey.” Even the British Consul in Palestine reported, in 1857, “The country is in a considerable degree empty of inhabitants and therefore its greatest need is that of a body of population.”

I recognize this as a crib of Joan Peters, and then Alan Dershowitz’s crib of Joan Peters. Both the case for Israel and “From Time Immemorial” have been thoroughly debunked. Dershowitz didn’t fabricate, he just copied Joan Peters…Joan Peters’ book was exposed as nearly a complete fabrication. A hoax, literally, and that’s where your quotes are coming from (or, a website that unbeknownst to you has copied from either book.)

Ironically, when the Jews started to populate, industry and agriculture flourished. This attracted arabs from neigbouring countries who were looking for prosperity and opportunities.

See above. This is based on Joan Peters’ fabrication and Dershowitz’s reliance on her fabrication.

But it all turned sour; the Arabs just didn’t want to live with the Jews anymore. It reminds one of the situation when the Israelites were accepted into Egypt, but were then later oppressed by an Egyptian Pharoah, as documented in the books of Genesis and Exodus.

Again, this is based on a fabricated work…but you can also use common sense to analyze the proposition:

For 1400 years, the Arabs had no problem with Jews, yet all of a sudden they hate Jews in the 20th century? Why the sea change in opinion? It just doesn’t stand up to analysis, and for the record, I recognize the claims and scholarship that you’re quoting as cribbed directly from Joan Peters’ “From Time Immemorial.” It was a hoax, has been exposed by serious scholarship as a hoax, and should not be taken as fact.

 

[pro_universal]

Another factor: How come Republican Paramilitaries got far more press coverage than Loyalist Paramilitiaries?

It seemed that the IRA ALWAYS made front page news. The Loyalsts by contrast rarely ever did. Why is that do you think?

I leave you to answer the question.

Sixtus: Because Britain had a good PR campaign, and was able to cover up the egregious human rights abuses commited by British agents and British loyalists. I don’t dispute your account of the facts one bit, and I sympathize with the crimes committed against Catholics that inspired Republican resistance in Northern Ireland.

My point was a more limited one: Only to show that, when the IRA was active, no commentators in the United States seriously tried to claim that Catholicism was the root cause of the violence. Similarly, no commentators claimed that protestant Christianity was the root cause of the loyalists’ terrorist crimes. And I think that’s because they were both racially closer to the average American…but whenever Arabs or Muslims are involved, people are quick to ignore legitimate political and social crimes as a cause of the conflict, and instead to focus on religion.

I agree completely with your critique of how terrorism is defined, and I’m sorry if I gave the impression that I was blaming the IRA for the conflict.

 

[Montalban]

For some disempowered people who have no weapons with which to fight, their OWN bodies is all they have.

Fight not to kill but to kill injustice

Then why weren’t there South African suicide bombers against Apartheid? Or Argentinean ones against dictators in the 1980s. It is an over-simplification to pin this on ‘oppressed peoples’. One (also) needs a belief system that encourages such actions.

 

[Montalban]

IRA

Always raised by some who fail to recognise that they were not a Catholic para-military group, but had a vaguely marxist agenda.