How Absolute is Pope's Power?

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No one can contradict the seer of Fatima herself, Sr Lucia: To John Paul’s Consecration on March 25, 1984, "I said ‘YES’. Now it is made."

Fr Fox explains that Fr Messias Coelho, theologian and editor of the Portuguese journal Mesagem de Fatima answered objections: “Sister Lucia, out of respect for the Pope, spoke of it the way our Holy Father did, using the word ‘world’, which included Russia. ** In the letter the Pope sent to the world’s bishops, the Holy Father clarified that it was to renew both the consecration of the world (1942) and Russia (1952). This time he did so in union with the bishops.**”

Certainly, John Vennari cannot be relied upon for Catholic truth.

Refer to:
Vennari then makes a completely false statement against Pope Francis:
“There is no mention of any need for conversion to Christ and His Church.”
This is absolutely and unequivocally a lie.
catholicinbrooklyn.blogspot.com.au/2013/11/john-vennari-lies-to-discredit-pope.html
 
Abu said:
No one can contradict the seer of Fatima herself, Sr Lucia: To John Paul’s Consecration on March 25, 1984, "I said ‘YES’. Now it is made."

Fr Fox explains that Fr Messias Coelho, theologian and editor of the Portuguese journal Mesagem de Fatima answered objections: “Sister Lucia, out of respect for the Pope, spoke of it the way our Holy Father did, using the word ‘world’, which included Russia. ** In the letter the Pope sent to the world’s bishops, the Holy Father clarified that it was to renew both the consecration of the world (1942) and Russia (1952). This time he did so in union with the bishops.**”

Certainly, John Vennari cannot be relied upon for Catholic truth.

Refer to:
Vennari then makes a completely false statement against Pope Francis:
“There is no mention of any need for conversion to Christ and His Church.”
This is absolutely and unequivocally a lie.
catholicinbrooklyn.blogspot.com.au/2013/11/john-vennari-lies-to-discredit-pope.html
Click to expand...
Of course we cannot rely on individuals to be honest. Either way someone is lying and I think those are lying who say Sr Lucia said to them that the consecration has already been done, some say she said it hasn’t been done. Pope John Paul II made no mention of Russia so Sr Lucia would not teach such nonsense.

To consecrate anything it must be set aside, a Bishop cannot say “I consecrate all cathedrals” to consecrate his own its invalid, a priest cannot say “I consecrate all chalices” to validly consecrate his own its invalid.

No-one denies these facts. A Bishops must set aside the Cathedral to Consecrate it the same with a chalice.

In a similar way, the Holy Father cannot say “I consecrate the world” in an attempt to consecrate Russia, it would be invalid. However the Holy Father Pope John Paul II has never claimed he consecrated Russia
 
Paul_Edwards said:
Of course we cannot rely on individuals to be honest. Either way someone is lying and I think those are lying who say Sr Lucia said to them that the consecration has already been done, some say she said it hasn’t been done. Pope John Paul II made no mention of Russia so Sr Lucia would not teach such nonsense.

To consecrate anything it must be set aside, a Bishop cannot say “I consecrate all cathedrals” to consecrate his own its invalid, a priest cannot say “I consecrate all chalices” to validly consecrate his own its invalid.

No-one denies these facts. A Bishops must set aside the Cathedral to Consecrate it the same with a chalice.

In a similar way, the Holy Father cannot say “I consecrate the world” in an attempt to consecrate Russia, it would be invalid. However the Holy Father Pope John Paul II has never claimed he consecrated Russia
Click to expand...
Consider the following

catholic.com/quickquestions/why-hasnt-the-pope-consecrated-russia-to-the-immaculate-heart did you note Sr Lucia said the consecration was fulfilled

note the timeline and date [March 25, 1984](http://www.ewtn.com/library/papaldoc/consecra.htm#John Paul II, 1984)
 
‘Pope John Paul II and the
Collegial Consecration of 1984
Fr Fox further argues that the Pope was very careful to ensure that the wording of the act of consecration guaranteed collegiality. He points out that John Paul II explicitly recalled the two consecrations of Pope Pius XII, in 1942 when he consecrated the world to Mary’s Immaculate Heart, and in 1952 when he consecrated Russia to her, offering these previous consecrations with his own act of consecration.

‘As Fr Fox states: “To say that the Pope was not consecrating Russia in union with the bishops of the world does violence to logic. It makes a taskmaster of God who nit-picks for fine details or wording rather than the intention of hearts.” [12]
On balance then the most important authorities, including the Pope, the local bishop, prominent theologians, and finally Sr. Lucia herself, hold the view that the 1984 act of consecration of Russia was properly carried out.
Note:
[12] Fox, The Collegial Consecration of Russia is Accomplished, pp. 13-15.’
theotokos.org.uk/pages/fatima/consecra.html
 
Pope John Paul did not mention Russia and some people say Sr Lucia said his consecration was not valid. I cannot stop you believing those who said the opposite.
 
Abu said:
‘As Fr Fox states: “To say that the Pope was not consecrating Russia in union with the bishops of the world does violence to logic.”
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I disagree with Fr Fox and think to say that consecrating things plurally validly consecrates something singularly does violence to logic, when all Catholic know it is logic that regardless of intentions if a Bishop said “I consecrate all Cathedrals” he would not validly consecrate his own and if a priest bought a chalice and said “I consecrate all chalices” he would not validly consecrate his own chalice.
 
More verification from none other than EWTN:
History of the Consecration and Related Events
July 13, 1917 Our Lady promises to "come and ask the consecration of Russia to Her Immaculate Heart"1

‘March 25, 1984 Pope John Paul II, “united with all the pastors of the Church in a particular bond whereby we constitute a body and a college,” consecrates “the whole world, especially the peoples for which by reason of their situation you have particular love and solicitude.” Both the Pope and Sr. Lucia initially seemed uncertain that the consecration has been fulfilled, but shortly thereafter** Sr. Lucia tells the papal nuncio to Portugal that the Consecration is fulfilled.**’
ewtn.com/expert/answers/FatimaConsecration.htm
 
Abu said:
More verification from none other than EWTN:
History of the Consecration and Related Events
July 13, 1917 Our Lady promises to "come and ask the consecration of Russia to Her Immaculate Heart"1

‘March 25, 1984 Pope John Paul II, “united with all the pastors of the Church in a particular bond whereby we constitute a body and a college,” consecrates “the whole world, especially the peoples for which by reason of their situation you have particular love and solicitude.” Both the Pope and Sr. Lucia initially seemed uncertain that the consecration has been fulfilled, but shortly thereafter** Sr. Lucia tells the papal nuncio to Portugal that the Consecration is fulfilled.**’
ewtn.com/expert/answers/FatimaConsecration.htm
Click to expand...
I disagree with EWTN and which ever first party claimed St Lucia said it was fulfilled, but obviously you agree with them.

I find it strange EWTN would interview John Salza and smile at him like they had no problem with him while he is teaching the consecration has not been done
 
Btw I like ETWN generally I just don’t agree 100% with them.
 
The facts are clear.
This article appeared in the December 2002 issue of the Homiletic and Pastoral Review
Fatima and the First Saturdays Devotion
By Donal Anthony Foley
Extract:
“So we have two very important further apparitions here, which greatly enhance our understanding of the message of Fatima and it’s critical importance for the Church. But while there has been much discussion of the collegial consecration of Russia, which was finally accomplished by Pope John Paul II, in union with a “moral totality” of the world’s bishops in 1984, we have heard much less about the Five First Saturdays devotion.”
theotokos.org.uk/pages/articles/fatifive.html

Published on June 18, 2005 by John Haffert in February 2005, Marian Private Revelation
The following article by the late John Haffert, co-founder of the World Apostolate of Fatima, the “Blue Army,” refers to two important interviews with Sr. Lucia of Fatima (in 1993 to Cardinal Ricardo Vidal of the Philippines and with Haffert himself on May 31, 1999)
Indeed, when the collegial Consecration was finally made on March 25, 1984, the change in Russia followed within months (as we have documented elsewhere) and became fully apparent with the dissolution of the Soviet Union six years later.
motherofallpeoples.com/2005/06/sister-lucia-and-the-third-day-of-the-week-of-fatima/

Thursday, May 23, 2013
Was Russia ever consecrated to Mary’s Immaculate Heart?
‘The only time the Magisterium of the Catholic Church has addressed this issue of the consecration was an instruction from the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, in 2000. In a quotation written by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger (later Pope Benedict) he says, “Sister Lucia personally confirmed that this solemn and universal act of consecration corresponded to what Our Lady wished (“Sim, està feita, tal como Nossa Senhora a pediu, desde o dia 25 de Março de 1984”: “Yes it has been done just as Our Lady asked, on 25 March 1984”: Letter of 8 November 1989).** Hence any further discussion or request is without basis.” **’

“Doubts that this was done impeach the characters of Sr. Lucia, Bl. John Paul, and Pope Emeritus Benedict, as well as the power of the Pope to bind and unbind.”
vivificat1.blogspot.com.au/2013/05/was-russia-ever-consecrated-to-marys.html

[My emphasis]
 
Abu said:
“Doubts that this was done impeach the characters of Sr. Lucia, Bl. John Paul, and Pope Emeritus Benedict, as well as the power of the Pope to bind and unbind.”

[My emphasis]
Click to expand...
I disagree because I do not believe Sr Lucia said it was done, also because Pope John Paul never even claimed he did it and because Pope Benedict wasn’t Pope when he was in the Holy Office.
 
I am unsubscribing myself from this particular thread now because this is not getting anywhere.

I will not see your replies and please pray for me if you think I’m in error.

May God Bless You and God Bless the Holy Father whom I shall be a faithful servant of until my dying breath.

Happy Easter.

:highprayer:
 
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