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TantumDicVerbo
Guest
I heard once that Padre Pio declared that if his confessor told him to jump out a window, he would do it without question. Should one unreservedly follow the advice of one’s confessor?
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T
thistle
Guest
Obviously not if it is something immoral or dangerous to you or others or against Church doctrine.
S
Shin
Guest
I believe this is what is known as hyperbole, though Padre’s confessor was probably so good he would’ve done it, and trusted that perhaps the house below was on fire or some such thing.
I think this reflects on his great trust in that particular confessor as well as the office. Some confessors are better than others.
L
Leopard
Guest
This is hyperbole, but still I expect that St. Pio chose his confessor carefully and had good reason to trust that the man who had care of his soul would never tell him to do anything wrong.
D
daughteroftruth
Guest
We obey in everything except sin. St. Teresa of Avila said that we must choose our confessors carefully, that people in the world (the laity) are blessed in that they’re not assigned a confessor and a free to choose. Another reason why we should pray hard before confession. If he proves to be inept (in whatever fashion, assuming it’s not because he’s holy and tells you what you don’t want to hear), it’s time to find a new confessor.
H
Hesychios
Guest
Ideally, one’s confessor is one’s Spiritual Director.
That is why one will read advice from these saints one sees on this thread. For Padre Pio and St Teresa there is no question that their own confessors knew their lives intimately.
But the reality is, most Roman Catholics do not have a Spiritual Director, the confession is anonymous and the priest cannot help you in the same way. So don’t try to apply this advice in your lives unless you can duplicate the arrangements.
Find a good priest who can give you time and know you when he hears your confession, ask him to be your Spiritual Director. Then go back to this priest on a regular basis, not anonymously. Discuss your thoughts and the trends in your behavior with him. Since each session can take some time, it might be better to do this by appointment on a mutually agreeable schedule. If you use the screen tell him your name when you show up unexpectedly on Saturday with everyone else.
Be generous to the priest, the parish or the religious order beyond the weekly collection plate because you are making demands on the priests time which normally another cleric might require but is not normal for a layperson these days.
Michael
That is why one will read advice from these saints one sees on this thread. For Padre Pio and St Teresa there is no question that their own confessors knew their lives intimately.
But the reality is, most Roman Catholics do not have a Spiritual Director, the confession is anonymous and the priest cannot help you in the same way. So don’t try to apply this advice in your lives unless you can duplicate the arrangements.
Find a good priest who can give you time and know you when he hears your confession, ask him to be your Spiritual Director. Then go back to this priest on a regular basis, not anonymously. Discuss your thoughts and the trends in your behavior with him. Since each session can take some time, it might be better to do this by appointment on a mutually agreeable schedule. If you use the screen tell him your name when you show up unexpectedly on Saturday with everyone else.
Be generous to the priest, the parish or the religious order beyond the weekly collection plate because you are making demands on the priests time which normally another cleric might require but is not normal for a layperson these days.
Michael
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TantumDicVerbo
Guest
Well, the reason I ask is this:
I struggle a lot with scrupulosity, and I finally decided to ask my priest about it in confession (just as a background, he knows me fairly well as priest/parishioner relationships go- knows my name, a bit about me, etc.). I told him I often struggle with going up to receive communion, in fear I am in mortal sin. He said that I should ALWAYS go up for communion (me personally, that is, not as a general rule). There was more said before and after this, but it would be too wordy and long-winded to post here.
Is his advice sound?
I struggle a lot with scrupulosity, and I finally decided to ask my priest about it in confession (just as a background, he knows me fairly well as priest/parishioner relationships go- knows my name, a bit about me, etc.). I told him I often struggle with going up to receive communion, in fear I am in mortal sin. He said that I should ALWAYS go up for communion (me personally, that is, not as a general rule). There was more said before and after this, but it would be too wordy and long-winded to post here.
Is his advice sound?
J
Joannm
Guest
If you sufffer from scrupulosity then I would say “YES” obey your confessor.
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Spirithound
Guest
Yes, it is sound.
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itsjustdave1988
Guest
No. St. Thomas Aquinas affirms that we are bound to obey our superiors excepting on two conditions: 1) the superior commands something contrary to higher authority, 2) the superior commands something beyond the scope of his authority. For condition 1 it is obligatory to disobey your superior. For condition 2 it is morally permitted to disobey, but it is not obligatory to do so.
“Test everything; hold fast what is good” (1 Thess 5:21)
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Shin
Guest
Who can say when we do not know the state of your spiritual life?
In grave sin one must refrain but scrupulous people usually make mistakes about this, and need to get over that and receive Communion for the sake of their spiritual strength!
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itsjustdave1988
Guest
I tend to be overly scrupulous as well. Pious fear of the Lord is commendable. Nonetheless, virtues can be distorted by their extremes, their exaggerations. Remember our Lord himself said to those afraid to approach him, “Be not afraid.”
I recommend that you commit this teaching, from St. Athanasius, to memory and repeat it to yourself often…
St. Athanasius: "***when someone falls from the Spirit through any wickedness—that grace indeed remains irrevocably with those *who are willing to repent after such a fall." (Discourses Against the Arians, 3, 24-25, ca. AD 358 )
I recommend that you commit this teaching, from St. Athanasius, to memory and repeat it to yourself often…
St. Athanasius: "***when someone falls from the Spirit through any wickedness—that grace indeed remains irrevocably with those *who are willing to repent after such a fall." (Discourses Against the Arians, 3, 24-25, ca. AD 358 )
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Yours_Truly
Guest
Interesting quote, but I wonder what grace he is speaking of? I’ll think this through out loud and you can tell me if I am in agreement with his context.
If we fall from the spirit (by which I assume he means into mortal sin), we completely lose all sanctifying grace. It is completely gone and we are now dead member of the body of Christ destined for hell.
Now, this sanctifying grace can be restored either by a mere act of attrition combined with sacramental confession, or an act of perfect contrition along with the accompanying the intent of confessing the sin as soon as we are able.
What through mortal sin is not lost is supernatural faith, or hope (unless the mortal sin was contrary to one of these). So I wonder, is the grace he is refering to the grace of supernatural faith or supernatural hope? Or is he refering to some kind of actual grace? Neither of which save per se.
B
brigid12
Guest
:yup:Who can say when we do not know the state of your spiritual life?
In grave sin one must refrain but scrupulous people usually make mistakes about this, and need to get over that and receive Communion for the sake of their spiritual strength!
C
Cruikshank_s
Guest
Here’s a great resource for the scrupulous person: Ten Commandments
for the Scrupulous
Pay close attention to this one:
for the Scrupulous
Pay close attention to this one:
M
Monica4316
Guest
I think your confessor gave you good advice. Only mortal sin prevents us from receiving Communion. Remember, God really wants us to receive the Eucharist and the devil would obviously try to prevent that from happening. If he can use your scrupulous thoughts and worries, he will. Here’s what St Therese said:
"Do you realize that Jesus is there in the tabernacle expressly for you - for you alone? He burns with the desire to come into your heart…don’t listen to the demon, laugh at him, and go without fear to receive the Jesus of peace and love… "
God bless you
"Do you realize that Jesus is there in the tabernacle expressly for you - for you alone? He burns with the desire to come into your heart…don’t listen to the demon, laugh at him, and go without fear to receive the Jesus of peace and love… "
God bless you
M
Monica4316
Guest
and yes, it’s a good idea to listen to your confessor if he tells you something wrong, that would be his sin, not yours. When we are obedient to spiritual directors and confessors, we are obedient to God. THe obedience pleases Him even if what the confessor said is not the best advice. Many Saints have spoken about this.
The only time you shouldn’t obey your confessor is if he tells you to sin in some way.
if he tells you something wrong, that would be his sin, not yours. When we are obedient to spiritual directors and confessors, we are obedient to God. THe obedience pleases Him even if what the confessor said is not the best advice. Many Saints have spoken about this.The only time you shouldn’t obey your confessor is if he tells you to sin in some way.
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itsjustdave1988
Guest
Code:
I think the grace he is speaking of is the *fullness* of grace and gifts lost through wickedness, but are said to “**revive**” or be “**restored**” to those who willingly repent. In other words, the grace lost through sin is given back, restored once again, and in that sense it is irrevocable.… we are sons and gods because of the Word in us , so we shall be in the Son and in the Father, and we shall be accounted to have become one in Son and in Father, because that that Spirit is in us, which is in the Word which is in the Father. ***When then a man falls from the Spirit for any wickedness, if he repent upon his fall, the grace remains irrevocably to such as are willing ***; otherwise he who has fallen is no longer in God (because that Holy Spirit and Paraclete which is in God has deserted him), but the sinner shall be in him to whom he has subjected himself… (St. Athanasius, Discourses Against the Arians, 3, 24-25, ca. AD 358 )
So, in some sense it seems that St. Athanasius taught the fullness of Divine grace remains irrevocable to those who are willing to repent. I think the key is understanding what he means by “irrevocable” versus a different sense of the word “grace.” I think St. Athanasius is referring to it what Catholic theology calls “revival of merit and gifts.”
St. Thomas Aquinas argued that meritorious works have the same standing in the eyes of God, even after sin, as they had when they were performed. Sin prevents the reception of the heavenly reward. As soon as the obstacle is removed, they can exercise once more the efficacy which belongs to them of leading to everlasting life. (cf. Summa Theologica, III, 89, 5).
Consequently, according to the encyclical of Pius XI, Infinita Dei misericordia (1924): “For, all who by doing penance…the same regain anew and receive that abundance of merits and gifts which they had lost by sinning” (Infinita Dei misericordia, May 29, 1924, Denzinger 2193)
Moreover, as explained by *Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma *by Ludwig Ott: “The merits due to good works performed in the state of grace which have been rendered null by grievous sins, that is , have been made inefficacious, revive. (Sent. communis).” (p. 437).
So, I don’t believe St. Athanasius or St. Thomas meant that one can continue to be wicked and sanctified at the same time. But instead, what I think what St. Athanasius meant by “irrevocable” is this theological teaching regarding revival of merit and gifts upon having repented of one’s wickedness.
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TantumDicVerbo
Guest
I’ve heard this before. Following my confessor in this matter has really put my mind at ease; I just hope I’m doing the right thing.and yes, it’s a good idea to listen to your confessor
The only time you shouldn’t obey your confessor is if he tells you to sin in some way.
H
Hesychios
Guest
Yes, follow your confessor in this matter, and remember that the burden is now on him. He has accepted responsibility for you before God, the millstone waits for him should he lead you astray and he knows it. Do not second-guess him, it is just like disrespecting the Holy Priesthood.
I hope this sheds some light on it for you, The priest’s prayer from the Liturgy of St John Chrysostom, a liturgy shared by Orthodox and Byzantine rite Catholics alike:
**…we offer to You this spiritual worship without the shedding of blood, and we ask, pray, and entreat You: send down Your Holy Spirit upon us and upon these gifts here presented.
…And make this bread the precious Body of Your Christ.
…And that which is in this cup the precious Blood of Your Christ.
…Changing them by Your Holy Spirit.
**
So that they may be to those who partake of them for vigilance of soul, forgiveness of sins, communion of Your Holy Spirit, fulfillment of the kingdom of heaven, confidence before You, and not in judgment or condemnation. Again, we offer this spiritual worship for those who repose in the faith, forefathers, fathers, patriarchs, prophets, apostles, preachers, evangelists, martyrs, confessors, ascetics, and for every righteous spirit made perfect in faith.
The emphasis is mine.
The point of the above quote is that, by communing with God…by partaking of the Holy Eucharist…you are placing yourself in the mercy. You are giving God your junk, such as it is, and He is giving you the Gift of Eternal Life.
A Catholic priest taught me this.
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