T
thunderbolt94
Guest
Hey,
I was hoping I could a second opinion on this blogpost that was made as a response to a friend of mine who were having a discussion on whether or not Christianity teaches that Hell is a literal hell and brimstone place of eternal torture. Here is the blogpost:
I write this now as a partial rebuttal to a “discussion” that occurred within a post on a friends status update on facebook.
At this moment in time it’s really hard for me to actually come up with a definitive counter-argument as the person of which I am opposed keeps changing the argument.
Originally it was that Hell was not a Christian concept, then that it was not a world of fire and brimstone, and then the argument turned into Hell not being a world of torture and in a separate thread a reference to the discussion was made which the aforementioned opponent states that “Hell does not appear in early Christian texts” (This thread has since been deleted so I can’t make reference to it any more)
Also, the opposition made comment that, and quote: “reading into them as would a fundamentalist would, which they shouldn’t be read into at all.”, the “them” in said quote are passages from the King James Bible which clearly indicate Hell as being a place of fire and torture.
To be quite fair, I’m no theologist, I don’t spend my days studying Biblical literature to try and unearth all the different ways in which one can interpret the passages so I’m bound to look at it from a fundamentalist view.
Also, I want to add that even todays scholars may be interpreting the texts wrong so it is hard to see the true meaning behind them if several meanings can exist within a single passage.
On top of this, One should NOT read into the Bible anyway, it was never designed to be the be all and end all of moral scripture, it’s (to me) a set of fables that try and encourage a decent moral framework, much like modern day fairy tales are used. In addition to entertaining, they educate, sadly people look too deep into them and take nothing away from it but a one sided and often prejudiced opinion.
Instead of trying to argue my point against someone who is too blind and ignorant to accept what it presented to him, instead I am simply going to look at the evolution of the concept of Hell.
I’m going to start as far back as I possibly can with this, which in my opinion is the grandfather of modern western religion… Greek Mythology.
There are many reasons as to why I believe that (One namely being the image of God looking like Zues who became Jupiter under Roman beliefs which the Christian faiths amalgamated into their own system as they have done with countless other religions) but first we’re going to look at Hades.
Now, Hades as a place was neither a place of fire or eternal torment, it was gloomy depressing underworld similar to what the majority of modern scholars believe purgatory to be like. Now Hades actually has nothing to do with Hell, but remember this post because I shall be referring back to it later.
Now then, the real reason I bring the Greek mythology into play is because of Tartarus, another gloomy underworld world that WAS a place of punishment, but I want to note that the inhabitants of Tartarus were rarely dead, they were very much alive for the most part. Their lives prolonged unnaturally so that them may suffer eternally (Think of Prometheus having his innards pecked out each day)
Now from here we move into the Roman mythologies of old, which are basically the Greek myths with different names.
It is here that Tartarus became a fiery world of punishment as it is surrounded by the flaming river Phlegethon and triple walls to prevent sinners from escaping from it, meaning it is more a place for the dead than those who wrong the Gods to receive their punishment.
The wronging of God theme actually carries over into Biblical scripture as does Tartarus itself when the archangel Uriel is placed in charge of Tarturus and 200 fallen angels that are imprisoned there (Book of Enoch 20:2)
From the concept of Tartarus, Gehenna is born and Jesus often speaks of “Gehenna” of “the unquenchable fire” reserved for those who to the end of their lives refuse to believe and be converted, where both soul and body can be lost. (This is the Roman Catholic view)
I could bring into play Sheol, the underworld of Hebrew faith, which was referenced in the the discussion, but after looking into it I feel it has no weight within the topic as it mirrors more Sumerian and Babylonian trains of thought, as was the way at the time.
Back to Gehenna though, and keeping in line with Hebrew thought, Gehenna is a Hellenised version of the Hebrew Hinnom, which is both a name and a place in the Levant. It was here that King Ahaz burnt his children in fire, and made other profane offerings.
Often this valley is referred to as the valley of “the sons of Hinnom,” or Ben-Hinnom in Hebrew. References to Gehenna, then, generally allude to the fires of profane sacrificial practices.
The implication is that someone who is burned in Gehenna is being offered up to some other God — or to no God.
This is the word most commonly used in the New Testament as “hell.” Note that in ancient Judaism, even in the Hellenised Judaism of the 1st century, the crime of King Ahaz was still regarded with some horror — thus, the name of Gehenna was treated with trepidation and fear.
I was hoping I could a second opinion on this blogpost that was made as a response to a friend of mine who were having a discussion on whether or not Christianity teaches that Hell is a literal hell and brimstone place of eternal torture. Here is the blogpost:
I write this now as a partial rebuttal to a “discussion” that occurred within a post on a friends status update on facebook.
At this moment in time it’s really hard for me to actually come up with a definitive counter-argument as the person of which I am opposed keeps changing the argument.
Originally it was that Hell was not a Christian concept, then that it was not a world of fire and brimstone, and then the argument turned into Hell not being a world of torture and in a separate thread a reference to the discussion was made which the aforementioned opponent states that “Hell does not appear in early Christian texts” (This thread has since been deleted so I can’t make reference to it any more)
Also, the opposition made comment that, and quote: “reading into them as would a fundamentalist would, which they shouldn’t be read into at all.”, the “them” in said quote are passages from the King James Bible which clearly indicate Hell as being a place of fire and torture.
To be quite fair, I’m no theologist, I don’t spend my days studying Biblical literature to try and unearth all the different ways in which one can interpret the passages so I’m bound to look at it from a fundamentalist view.
Also, I want to add that even todays scholars may be interpreting the texts wrong so it is hard to see the true meaning behind them if several meanings can exist within a single passage.
On top of this, One should NOT read into the Bible anyway, it was never designed to be the be all and end all of moral scripture, it’s (to me) a set of fables that try and encourage a decent moral framework, much like modern day fairy tales are used. In addition to entertaining, they educate, sadly people look too deep into them and take nothing away from it but a one sided and often prejudiced opinion.
Instead of trying to argue my point against someone who is too blind and ignorant to accept what it presented to him, instead I am simply going to look at the evolution of the concept of Hell.
I’m going to start as far back as I possibly can with this, which in my opinion is the grandfather of modern western religion… Greek Mythology.
There are many reasons as to why I believe that (One namely being the image of God looking like Zues who became Jupiter under Roman beliefs which the Christian faiths amalgamated into their own system as they have done with countless other religions) but first we’re going to look at Hades.
Now, Hades as a place was neither a place of fire or eternal torment, it was gloomy depressing underworld similar to what the majority of modern scholars believe purgatory to be like. Now Hades actually has nothing to do with Hell, but remember this post because I shall be referring back to it later.
Now then, the real reason I bring the Greek mythology into play is because of Tartarus, another gloomy underworld world that WAS a place of punishment, but I want to note that the inhabitants of Tartarus were rarely dead, they were very much alive for the most part. Their lives prolonged unnaturally so that them may suffer eternally (Think of Prometheus having his innards pecked out each day)
Now from here we move into the Roman mythologies of old, which are basically the Greek myths with different names.
It is here that Tartarus became a fiery world of punishment as it is surrounded by the flaming river Phlegethon and triple walls to prevent sinners from escaping from it, meaning it is more a place for the dead than those who wrong the Gods to receive their punishment.
The wronging of God theme actually carries over into Biblical scripture as does Tartarus itself when the archangel Uriel is placed in charge of Tarturus and 200 fallen angels that are imprisoned there (Book of Enoch 20:2)
From the concept of Tartarus, Gehenna is born and Jesus often speaks of “Gehenna” of “the unquenchable fire” reserved for those who to the end of their lives refuse to believe and be converted, where both soul and body can be lost. (This is the Roman Catholic view)
I could bring into play Sheol, the underworld of Hebrew faith, which was referenced in the the discussion, but after looking into it I feel it has no weight within the topic as it mirrors more Sumerian and Babylonian trains of thought, as was the way at the time.
Back to Gehenna though, and keeping in line with Hebrew thought, Gehenna is a Hellenised version of the Hebrew Hinnom, which is both a name and a place in the Levant. It was here that King Ahaz burnt his children in fire, and made other profane offerings.
Often this valley is referred to as the valley of “the sons of Hinnom,” or Ben-Hinnom in Hebrew. References to Gehenna, then, generally allude to the fires of profane sacrificial practices.
The implication is that someone who is burned in Gehenna is being offered up to some other God — or to no God.
This is the word most commonly used in the New Testament as “hell.” Note that in ancient Judaism, even in the Hellenised Judaism of the 1st century, the crime of King Ahaz was still regarded with some horror — thus, the name of Gehenna was treated with trepidation and fear.