How angry am I allowed to be?

[Verisimilitude]

Would this be a front page story if it were done in a mosque or synagogue as it was done in a Catholic Mass a few days ago?

SAN FRANCISCO, October 10, 2007 (LifeSiteNews.com) - Last Sunday, October 7, San Francisco Archbishop George Niederauer said Mass at a Catholic Church in the heart of the gay Castro district. Most Holy Redeemer Parish has a lamentable reputation of having caved in to demands of homosexual activists. One group of homosexual activists which until recently operated regularly out of the parish was called “Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence”, men who wear makeup and dress as Catholic nuns. Archbishop Niederauer was filmed giving two members of this group Holy Communion on Sunday. lifesite.net/ldn/2007/oct/07101004.html

Why doesn’t the MSM cover this like they do foot baths in airports, or a defiled book in Cuba?

Answer: Catholics haven’t formed, rioted and killed over something in centuries.

I wonder if the ACLU will file suit against the evil men who took the Body under false pretense for me.

I wonder how many non-Catholics will condemn San Francisco and it’s silent Mayor in the support of Catholics.

I wonder if the Catholic House Majority Leader from California or the Christain President will condemn the desecration as they have for the support and protection of other faiths sacred elements.

I wonder if many Americans or even most Catholics will condemn the defilement.

Watch. Some, not all: Catholics will condemn the Archbishop and non-Catholics will say it’s just deserts.

It’s a disgrace. I will never set foot in San Fran again if at all possible. If I lived there I would move.

 

[paarsurrey]

It’s a disgrace. I will never set foot in San Fran again if at all possible. If I lived there I would move.

Hi

How that is going to improve the situation there rationally?

Thanks

 

[OneAugustKnight]

I expect to hear about this in the homily on Sunday. My priest is going to be really steamed about this. I think this will be bigger than people think. The Archbishop has apologized and taken steps to repair the situation at that parish. The Folsom Street Fair advertisement will bring the Protestants into this issue.

I can’t just sit here and do nothing. I am so angry. I will spreading the word on the Miller Brewing Co. boycott. What has been going on for the last week is just horrendous.

I don’t think San Francisco will stand for much more of this nonsense either. A week ago I read that they are sick of homeless people crapping on their lawns and the very next week homosexuals are sodomizing each other in the streets in front of children?

These people can only go so far before there will be an enormous backlash against them. They are really pushing the limit of what people will tolerate.

 

[Verisimilitude]

I should mention I do think the Archbishop needs to answer… and I think he has. I’ll look. Regardless, he should not have given It to them to begin with…but I do not know the circumstances. He may deserve justified anger as well. He may not.

 

[pyropam]

I’m not going to judge anyone here.

Do we know these two men?

Do we know their hearts?

Did they make a confession?

How we look and dress should not necessarily be the determining factor of whether or not we receive communion.

Is it not the responsibility of the persons receiving to decide whether or not they are worthy to receive?

 

[Mirdath]

I wonder if the ACLU will file suit against the evil men who took the Body under false pretense for me.

This is an internal Catholic affair, not a question of civil liberties. Your kneejerk slam at the ACLU is ludicrous: this isn’t their job.

As for the rest of it, take it up with the archbishop. If he’s decided it’s okay, why should the media be reporting it? Again, it’s not their job to read up on canon law. If the controversy becomes newsworthy (to anybody besides a disgruntled or gruntled Catholic), then the press has an interest.

 

[OneAugustKnight]

The archbishop said he didn’t know who they were, but everyone else knew and told him afterwards that they drag queens who are part of an homosexual organization that openly mocks the Catholic Church and uses their parish center for their meetings.

This part of the story is mostly relevent to Catholics and obviously this parish has some major issues. The controversy that should effect people is the Folsom Street Fair story, and this is only a part of that.

I am not angry at the Archbishop though. He screwed up, he apologized, and he is trying to fix things. Forgiveness right? Plus I bet whatever he has to deal with after this is going to be so much worse than refusing 2 drag queens communion.

I mean, I sin and make mistakes sometimes, but it’s never been videotaped and shown around the world.

 

[Verisimilitude]

This is an internal Catholic affair, not a question of civil liberties. Your kneejerk slam at the ACLU is ludicrous: this isn’t their job.

You’re right. It is mostly a internal Catholic affair. It is also a civil matter to a degree so the intended jab to the ACLU was warranted.

Tomorow is Saturday and I would bet someone somewhere is getting married. What if two imposters walked into their reception dinner and celebration and publicly mocked with cruel intention their union. It is not equal to eating a piece of wedding cake and leaving unnoticed. The two men were kissing during the Mass in an obvious exhibition with complete disregard to common decency before and/or after receiving Communion. A better analogy is the two imposters ‘make water’ on the wedding cake during the first dance of the couple while everyone watches.

Why shouldn’t they be arrested for disturbing the peace and indecency? It’s worse than the Christian freaks who shout at AIDS patients and interupt their funeral services. It crosses the limit.

As for the rest of it, take it up with the archbishop. If he’s decided it’s okay, why should the media be reporting it? Again, it’s not their job to read up on canon law. If the controversy becomes newsworthy (to anybody besides a disgruntled or gruntled Catholic), then the press has an interest.

You’re right again. Gruntled or not, the press only reports religious motivated explosions, shootings and violence over cartoons and 14th century quotes. I’m sure you take the position that it’s just easier not to offend Muslims then excercise my right of free speech. Must I also surrender my right to peacefully assemble in my own Church if the appointed civil authorities have no responsibility to protect what they have authority over? (keeping the peace)

Though it likes to talk about if the Protestants will make women priests, and if the COE will ordain gays, Muslims end ramadan…you are correct again; the press only prints what is news worthy.

 

[Mirdath]

You’re right. It is mostly a internal Catholic affair. It is also a civil matter to a degree so the intended jab to the ACLU was warranted.

Exactly how is a question of people’s worthiness to receive the Eucharist a civil matter?

And even that worthiness is between the individual and the celebrant, who apparently thought – at least at the time – that there was no reason to deny the sacrament. You were not invited to submit your opinion. You may, of course, register your dissatisfaction, but fact is, the Church is not a democracy, and your opinion means squat. For all you guys love talking about the glory of an authoritarian hierarchy and morality, you sure don’t seem to like it when that authority doesn’t match up with what you want. Welcome to the flipside.

You’re right again. Gruntled or not, the press only reports religious motivated explosions, shootings and violence over cartoons and 14th century quotes. I’m sure you take the position that it’s just easier not to offend Muslims then excercise my right of free speech. Must I also surrender my right to peacefully assemble in my own Church if the appointed civil authorities have no responsibility to protect what they have authority over? (keeping the peace)

You’re sure, but still wrong.

As to keeping the peace, given that there were apparently no riots in the streets after the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence made their way up the communion line, I don’t think that was much of an issue.

 

[Verisimilitude]

Exactly how is a question of people’s worthiness to receive the Eucharist a civil matter?

Have you ever watched South Park? In an episode one of the kids pretended to be mental/physical handicaped to compete in the Special Olymics thinking he had an advantage because he wasn’t handicapped. He came in last and was shunned by his friends. It was funny in a twisted way.

This is no different (except it isn’t funny). It isn’t worthiness in question at all. It is intent.

You’re sure, but still wrong.

As to keeping the peace, given that there were apparently no riots in the streets after the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence made their way up the communion line, I don’t think that was much of an issue.

Maybe.

So if a Catholic doesn’t kill someone for public abuse of the Sacraments…it’s a non issue to non-Catholics?

 

[Mirdath]

This is no different (except it isn’t funny). It isn’t worthiness in question at all. It is intent.

Who are you to judge another’s intent?

Maybe.

So if a Catholic doesn’t kill someone for public abuse of the Sacraments…it’s a non issue to non-Catholics?

Nope, not really. There are less drastic measures that could conceivably be of interest though – a papal proclamation, for instance, or a statement from the USCCB; but the opinion of Verisimilitude simply isn’t news.

 

[Dolores49]

You should’ve seen Bill O’Reilly tonight. He was the angriest I’ve ever seen him. He’s expressed his anger against the mainstream media for not covering the story.

However, he’s naive about these militant gays.

O’Reilly caught in a “spin.” This morning he said on his radio show, “90 percent of gays are outraged at this.” How does he know that?? Maybe somebody ought to give him a subscription to New Oxford Review.

:newidea:
Here’s an idea. Be prepared as if the Lavendar Mafia will come to your parish. Be vigilant. Bring your own camera, cell phone (turned to mute). Practice assertiveness. If and when a gay in drag comes for Mass, yell loudly, “Getoutahere you loon!” Cause a ruckess during Mass. Someone else calls the coppers. Press charges for trespassing. Or traumatizing you.

:hypno: Hey, the S.F. Chronicle columnist on O’Reilly tonight calls the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence “wall paper.”

They need to change the name of the city from that of a saint to something else entirely. Like “Help!” or “Save This Town!” or “Lost and Sinking Fast.”

I think San Francisco is cursed. I’ve never seen the beauty people talk about. I think it’s a scary place and I’m always glad when I leave.

I’m one of those people with a strong sense of the presence of evil, though.

 

[Verisimilitude]

Who are you to judge another’s intent?

A rational human being with reason that can observe their behavior as on the clip I saw and pictures available. It is not that difficult to determine when being mocked. Outside the Church is one thing. Inside during Mass is another.

Nope, not really. There are less drastic measures that could conceivably be of interest though – a papal proclamation, for instance, or a statement from the USCCB; but the opinion of Verisimilitude simply isn’t news.

It isn’t my opinion I was making to be news. The point is the news story itself is not news because…why?

Did you feel compassion for the Moslems when the Golden Mosque was blownup a few years ago? What about when the Taliban blew up the statues in Afghanistan a decadde ago? Ozzy Osborne once took a leak on the Alamo and got arrested.

Most everyone/thing else is worthy of respect and protection, and therefore the justified condemnation from the non-Moslem and non-Hindu/Buddha world when their tradions are attacked and desecrated…except the most holy part of my faith…is that it?

Is it too small a thing to worry about to make such a big deal out of it in your view? A quran’s mishandling in a prison has caused riots. Was that big enough but not this or you dismissed both? What tradition do you have that you hold dear; religious or family, that you would be angered at if someone mocked it so publically and with contempt?

If these two idiots went into the local mosque and made a similar scene would you also justify the disregard and disrespect they showed to the Moslems like you are showing to me, or would you say nothing. What do you think the Moslem response would be, and the MSM coverage of it?

So in answer to the title in the OP you are telling me; little to none.

 

[KarenNC]

I think San Francisco is cursed. I’ve never seen the beauty people talk about. I think it’s a scary place and I’m always glad when I leave.

I’m one of those people with a strong sense of the presence of evil, though.

Interesting viewpoint. I just spent a week in San Francisco about three weeks ago. My 7 year old daughter and I went all over the city using public transportation (buses, streetcars, subway, etc). Other than having to explain to her that graffiti (which we saw over by Haight Ashbury) is simply a sign of lack of respect for oneself as well as a lack of respect for public property, there was nothing that caused any problems or concern for us. It was a beautiful city and we found the people to be helpful and courteous overall (more so than in Boston, based on our trip there last year).

The worst behavior I observed while I was there was some middle-school kids on the bus teasing each other. There was certainly no one “sodomizing each other on the street.”

 

[KarenNC]

The archbishop said he didn’t know who they were, but everyone else knew and told him afterwards that they drag queens who are part of an homosexual organization that openly mocks the Catholic Church and uses their parish center for their meetings.

If the Archbishop, who says he is familiar with the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence did not realize that these were drag queens and that one of them, from the photos, was wearing what was obviously to even a non-Catholic like me an outfit meant to represent a nun’s habit, then he may need to have a long visit with both his physician and his optometrist. He said he’s been there for a year and a half—where was his staff that they did not inform him adequately enough about a group that is apparently such a big deal so that he might be able to garner a clue upon seeing them? This group apparently has been well known and well publicized (including pictures) in San Francisco since the 1980s. It’s not like they are a hidden organization.

If “everybody else knew” and were so concerned that the relatively new Archbishop might not be aware, where were his co-celebrants? Why did they only speak up afterwards if they thought it was a problem? It’s not like these guys blended seamlessly into the crowd and would only have been noticed after they came up for Communion. It does not appear that they ran up at the last minute—they appear to have been in line like everyone else.

I know of no church that simply leaves the doors open for any group to wander in and use their facilities for meetings without anyone in the church knowing what’s going on, especially on a regular basis. Their use of the parish center had to be approved by someone in authority.

 

[OneAugustKnight]

I didn’t say I believed what the archbishop said about not knowing. I was trying to make the point that he screwed up, apologized for it, is trying to repair the situation, and is probably facing some hefty consequences.

He apologized, I forgive him. That’s all. The “Sisters” still haven’t apologized for mocking the Church, Nancy Pelosi says she doesn’t see why this is a big deal, but mostly I am wondering why people can attend Mass dressed like circus sideshows without anyone in the parish asking them to leave.

Maybe the lack of men in the Church is worse than I thought. Not that this situation will help to bring them back.

 

[Mirdath]

Did you feel compassion for the Moslems when the Golden Mosque was blownup a few years ago? What about when the Taliban blew up the statues in Afghanistan a decadde ago? Ozzy Osborne once took a leak on the Alamo and got arrested.

Most everyone/thing else is worthy of respect and protection, and therefore the justified condemnation from the non-Moslem and non-Hindu/Buddha world when their tradions are attacked and desecrated…except the most holy part of my faith…is that it?

The most holy part of your faith looks, from the outside, like everybody lining up for cookies and wine. It’s a very small, humble thing. You expect the media to report on every little thing that goes wrong with it – even those things only a Catholic would notice or care about?

Is it too small a thing to worry about to make such a big deal out of it in your view? A quran’s mishandling in a prison has caused riots. Was that big enough but not this or you dismissed both?

Riots are news. A book being urinated on isn’t.

If you want this to be news, start a riot.

 

[Verisimilitude]

The most holy part of your faith looks, from the outside, like everybody lining up for cookies and wine. It’s a very small, humble thing. You expect the media to report on every little thing that goes wrong with it – even those things only a Catholic would notice or care about?

Ok, I get it. Thanks for clearing up my stupidity. I’ll remind my fellow Catholics that we need to tolerate the radical disrespect shown our faith both in and out of the Church because it looks silly to the outside world. We should also have no expectation that others (non-Cathiolics & civil law) will support us in defense of our sanctuary.

As long as no one gets killed, it’s ok to mock and **** on people you don’t agree with. Welcome to the NWO.

 

[Mirdath]

Ok, I get it. Thanks for clearing up my stupidity. I’ll remind my fellow Catholics that we need to tolerate the radical disrespect shown our faith both in and out of the Church because it looks silly to the outside world. We should also have no expectation that others (non-Cathiolics & civil law) will support us in defense of our sanctuary.

You’re welcome!

 

[SerenaHC]

For more coverage, watch the repeat of The World Over on EWTN this week. Also, you can go to www.catholicleague.org to see some pictures of the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence.

We must pray for the souls of these drag queens who partook of the holy eucharist unworthily. They have committed an egregious sin and may pay a huge price for their conduct: the loss of heaven.

If the archbishop was really blind to the outrageous attire of these two gentlemen, it is for him to know, but we have to take his word on it. No matter how ludicrous it might be.

I believe that the only way to handle this situation is with lots and lots of prayer, for the offenders and for the archbishop. The sexual abuse scandal has now cost the archdioceses in So. California over $1 billion. No one can fix the incredible problems there but God.