How are Lutherans Saved?

[JonNC]

No.

From there, I can say that, according to Paul, we are justified by grace alone through faith.
James comes along and tells me that I am not justified by faith alone.
Which is it?
It is both. We are justified by grace alone through faith alone.
Faith, however, cannot be without works, confirmed by Paul in Galatians 5:6, we are saved by faith working in love. As Luther says, faith without works serves no purpose. And while works do not, can not save, we are bound to do them.

Jon

 

[Indifferently]

From there, I can say that, according to Paul, we are justified by grace alone through faith.
James comes along and tells me that I am not justified by faith alone.
Which is it?
It is both. We are justified by grace alone through faith alone.
Faith, however, cannot be without works, confirmed by Paul in Galatians 5:6, we are saved by faith working in love. As Luther says, faith without works serves no purpose. And while works do not, can not save, we are bound to do them.

Jon

This is confirmed by what is contained in the passages succeeding Eph. 2:8-9.

We are born unto God through faith alone, and as new creatures we are created unto good works - that’s what people with faith do. They do good works. And if you don’t do good works, you’re not born again. True and lively faith issues forth in good works. If it doesn’t, then it’s not faith as Paul defines it.

 

[Isaiah45_9]

From there, I can say that, according to Paul, we are justified by grace alone through faith.
James comes along and tells me that I am not justified by faith alone.
Which is it?
It is both. We are justified by grace alone through faith alone.
Faith, however, cannot be without works, confirmed by Paul in Galatians 5:6, we are saved by faith working in love. As Luther says, faith without works serves no purpose. And while works do not, can not save, we are bound to do them.

Jon

My dear friend in Christ,

Faith without works = Nothing
Works without faith = Nothing

Further, if I have faith that can move mountains but have no love. I am nothing.

Faith without love = Nothing.

Above, I presented the passages together.

Faith alone is [alone] found in the book of St James.

If faith doesn’t have those two additional elements, its dead and its nothing.

Not by faith alone,

 

[Per_Crucem]

My dear friend in Christ,

Faith without works = Nothing
Works without faith = Nothing

Further, if I have faith that can move mountains but have no love. I am nothing.

Faith without love = Nothing.

Above, I presented the passages together.

Faith alone is [alone] found in the book of St James.

If faith doesn’t have those two additional elements, its dead and its nothing.

Not by faith alone,

Faith doesn’t justify. Works do not justify. Christ’s life, death, and resurrection (alone) justifies. We receive His justification when we are united to Him in Holy Baptism, we continue in that justification when we partake of His justifying Body and Blood in the Eucharist, His justifying word in Absolution, etc. Both faith and works are the byproducts of that union with Christ. Neither is a cause. Now, we would say that faith alone justifies because God’s grace in His word and sacraments give us faith, and faith unites us to Christ. Works do not.

 

[Isaiah45_9]

Now, we would say that faith alone [does not] justifies because God’s grace in His word and sacraments give us faith, and faith unites us to Christ. Works [alone] do not.

Fixed

You just missed my whole posts, didn’t you?

Say that to St. James

 

[TimothyH]

Hi Jose,
Does Paul anywhere mention anything else but faith as something that justifies?

Jon
Isaiah45_9;12155734:

No.

I really don’t care to get in the middle of this argument. I’m just a fan of the truth, that’s all, and it is clear that Paul did mention things other than faith which justify.

*they are justified by his grace as a gift (Romans 3:24)

Since, therefore, we are now justified by his blood, (Romans 5:9)

so that we might be justified by his grace (Titus 3:7)*

-Tim-

 

[Isaiah45_9]

I really don’t care to get in the middle of this argument. I’m just a fan of the truth, that’s all, and it is clear that Paul did mention things other than faith which justify.

they are justified by his grace as a gift (Romans 3:24)

Since, therefore, we are now justified by his blood, (Romans 5:9)

so that we might be justified by his grace (Titus 3:7)

-Tim-

Thank you!

 

[Per_Crucem]

Fixed

You just missed my whole posts, didn’t you?

Say that to St. James

Nope, I didnt. Justification in Christ is a gift. The only way to receive a promised gift is by believing, and accepting it. One cannot work for a free gift. Otherwise, it isn’t a gift but a debt. Hence Romans 11. James is addressing how one can see faith in another. One cannot see that a person is justified simply by their profession of faith, because it could be false. One sees faith by the fruit of it.

 

[jericho777]

I really don’t care to get in the middle of this argument. I’m just a fan of the truth, that’s all, and it is clear that Paul did mention things other than faith which justify.

they are justified by his grace as a gift (Romans 3:24)

Since, therefore, we are now justified by his blood, (Romans 5:9)

so that we might be justified by his grace (Titus 3:7)

-Tim-

And these are all things that God has done for us. We cannot earn or deserve it. We just accept His free gift by faith.

 

[Isaiah45_9]

And these are all things that God has done for us. We cannot earn or deserve it. We just accept His free gift by faith.

And not one person is saying the opposite…

Have you read my signature?

 

[Isaiah45_9]

Nope, I didnt. Justification in Christ is a gift. The only way to receive a promised gift is by believing, and accepting it. One cannot work for a free gift. Otherwise, it isn’t a gift but a debt. Hence Romans 11. James is addressing how one can see faith in another. One cannot see that a person is justified simply by their profession of faith, because it could be false. One sees faith by the fruit of it.

Actually, it is possible to work for a free gift as a condition for said gift. Free does nor mean cheap by any stretch of the imagination in this case. Have you read Bonhoeffer’s “The Cost of Discipleship”?. He was Lutheran you know .

Even Paul says to work out your salvation in fear and trembling. He doesn’t say to justify your salvation, but he is not allergic to the reality of good works and their necessity as reformed theology is.

My signature is precisely the antidote for that allergy

 

[Per_Crucem]

Actually, it is possible to work for a free gift as a condition for said gift. Free does nor mean cheap by any stretch of the imagination in this case. Have you read Bonhoeffer’s “The Cost of Discipleship”?. He was Lutheran you know .

It wasn’t cheap, given that the second Person of the Trinity had to be crucified in order for us to possess it. No, it’s not possible to work for a free gift, or as St. Paul says, grace would no longer be grace. It is, however, possible to work in order to demonstrate love and thankfulness for having received the free gift. That love and thankfulness does not increase the gift or maintain the gift. What it does, is use the gift how God intended it to be used. Or as St. Paul says, created by Christ in order to do good works. One must have the former in order to do the latter. Meriting the gift puts the ox before the cart.

Even Paul says to work out your salvation in fear and trembling. He doesn’t say to justify your salvation, but he is not allergic to the reality of good works and their necessity as reformed theology is.

You are right that an overemphasis on justification by faith distorts the biblical reality of works. Here again, the East is probably more sane on the topic. Be that as it may, it’s wholly appropriate to say that one cannot be saved apart from obedience to Christ. This is true when one looks at salvation in a wider lens than just focusing on justification. Justification is not salvation.

 

[Isaiah45_9]

It wasn’t cheap, given that the second Person of the Trinity had to be crucified in order for us to possess it. No, it’s not possible to work for a free gift, or as St. Paul says, grace would no longer be grace. It is, however, possible to work in order to demonstrate love and thankfulness for having received the free gift. That love and thankfulness does not increase the gift or maintain the gift. What it does, is use the gift how God intended it to be used. Or as St. Paul says, created by Christ in order to do good works. One must have the former in order to do the latter. Meriting the gift puts the ox before the cart.

I really think we are talking past the other.

However,

The purpose of the gift is to do good works in Christ. We would be denying the gift without those good works (read gifts of the spirit as well).

You are right that an overemphasis on justification by faith distorts the biblical reality of works. Here again, the East is probably more sane on the topic. Be that as it may, it’s wholly appropriate to say that one cannot be saved apart from obedience to Christ. This is true when one looks at salvation in a wider lens than just focusing on justification. Justification is not salvation.

Agreed.

 

[Indifferently]

Everyone God justifies he glorifies (Rom. 8:29-30). These are those whom God foreknew - in other words, those whom God has predestined to salvation. God saves everyone he intends to save, and it is not possible to be once quickened (into a state of grace) and then fall from grace.

‘For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.’

 

[Isaiah45_9]

Everyone God justifies he glorifies (Rom. 8:29-30). These are those whom God foreknew - in other words, those whom God has predestined to salvation. God saves everyone he intends to save, and it is not possible to be once quickened (into a state of grace) and then fall from grace.

‘For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.’

I don’t even need to add anything to the text…

Hebrews 6:1 Therefore let us leave the elementary doctrine of Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, 2 with instruction about ablutions, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. 3 And this we will do if God permits. 4 For it is impossible to restore again to repentance those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they then commit apostasy, since they crucify the Son of God on their own account and hold him up to contempt. 7 For land which has drunk the rain that often falls upon it, and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is cultivated, receives a blessing from God. 8 But if it bears thorns and thistles, it is worthless and near to being cursed; its end is to be burned.
9 Though we speak thus, yet in your case, beloved, we feel sure of better things that belong to salvation. 10 For God is not so unjust as to overlook your work and the love which you showed for his sake in serving the saints, as you still do. 11 And we desire each one of you to show the same earnestness in realizing the full assurance of hope until the end, 12 so that you may not be sluggish, but imitators of those who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a fearful prospect of judgment, and a fury of fire which will consume the adversaries. 28 A man who has violated the law of Moses dies without mercy at the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 How much worse punishment do you think will be deserved by the man who has spurned the Son of God, and profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and outraged the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him who said, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge his people.” 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

 

[JonNC]

I really don’t care to get in the middle of this argument. I’m just a fan of the truth, that’s all, and it is clear that Paul did mention things other than faith which justify.

they are justified by his grace as a gift (Romans 3:24)

Since, therefore, we are now justified by his blood, (Romans 5:9)

so that we might be justified by his grace (Titus 3:7)

-Tim-

Amen, Tim.

It is extremely important to recognize that sola fide is shorthand, and sometime we get caught up in that. It is by grace, through faith.

Jon