How are the families of married priests financially supported?

[notredame_999]

Just curious how the eastern rites are able to financially support the families of married priests, especially since living a chaste marriage without artifical birth control could mean 7,8,9 even 10 children. Thanks.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Just curious how the eastern rites are able to financially support the families of married priests, especially since living a chaste marriage without artifical birth control could mean 7,8,9 even 10 children. Thanks.

I’ve known people trying for kids for years and never had one. So you cannot just say that no birth control = 7-10 kids. And some of these people even have 1 kid and are just trying for a second one.

Priests receive a salary from the parish.

 

[notredame_999]

I’ve known people trying for kids for years and never had one. So you cannot just say that no birth control = 7-10 kids. And some of these people even have 1 kid and are just trying for a second one.

Priests receive a salary from the parish.

Did you even read my post? I said COULD mean…

 

[Aramis]

Just curious how the eastern rites are able to financially support the families of married priests, especially since living a chaste marriage without artifical birth control could mean 7,8,9 even 10 children. Thanks.

Many priests, married or not, have additional jobs on the side. That said, most could do so with only a housing allowance added, and including the family on the insurance plan.

Celibate priests in the Eparchy of Phoenix get some $25K/year plus housing. My wife, two kids, and I live on under $30K and pay $12K/year for housing of far lower quality (and the same space) as the rectory of my home parish.

 

[puzzleannie]

the ones I know have family money, wives who work full time, and/or side jobs. I know of no married Eastern rite priest in the US (and my knowledge is limited to a couple of metropolitan areas in the midwest) who is paid enough for his ministry to support a family, or is paid even remotely comparable to Protestant clergy in the same area.

 

[Hesychios]

the ones I know have family money, wives who work full time, and/or side jobs. I know of no married Eastern rite priest in the US (and my knowledge is limited to a couple of metropolitan areas in the midwest) who is paid enough for his ministry to support a family, or is paid even remotely comparable to Protestant clergy in the same area.

I think any parish that has been blessed to receive a young married priest with a growing family should see that they need to ramp it up in the personal financial contributions, and the bishop will take their ability or willingness to do this into account while he is making assignments … or perhaps when he is deciding which parish to close.

The EC in north America have one of the [astoundingly ] most healthy priest to parishioner ratios in the Catholic church anywhere. They are truly blessed, both in the formation of vocations (even when celibacy was a mandate) and the willingness of mature and seasoned priests to continue to work for the paltry sums that seem to be standard.

But maintaining this ratio comes at a cost, both the priest (with or without family) and the community must be willing to make big sacrifices. It looks as though there will always be some white clergy in the ranks from this point on, as long as the church survives, so everyone has to pull together to support these families and help their children get a decent higher education.

 

[trophybearer]

Our priest is paid 45k a year and has health insurance. It’s stated alongside the rest of the parish expenses in a yearly report.That’s no big sum, but he has a lovely house and two beautiful children. He does some work on the side with one of the Universities here and his wife doesn’t work outside the home. We are certainly not a rich parish by any means but there is no way he would go lacking anything so long as we know, and special collections are taken for him and his family, especially around the holidays.A person earning 40k per year is the average in this area of the country. That’s how they do it here, anyway.

 

[Seamus_L]

Without getting into the whole Latin vs Eastern controversy, I’d say this is a very good example of where a married priesthood may be good in practice (for the East) but very impractical in reality. A married priest with a large family will be a bigger drain on the parish’s finances, and in return you’ll get less time devoted to the church.

 

[Seamus_L]

Sorry, meant to say good in THEORY

 

[Hesychios]

Without getting into the whole Latin vs Eastern controversy, I’d say this is a very good example of where a married priesthood may be good in practice (for the East) but very impractical in reality. A married priest with a large family will be a bigger drain on the parish’s finances, and in return you’ll get less time devoted to the church.

I think the discussion has to remain theoretical, because it has yet to be tested on the right scale, but there is the possibility of an ‘optimum’.

IF the number of vocations is up by the necessary percentage there will be more flexible or free time for each priest.

The small parishes with a single priest do not seem to have any trouble finding the priest when he is needed. A big parish with a single priest might have a problem, but if there are more priests they can share the duties.

Usually discussions of this sort tend to overlook the fact that celibates are not normally without family, beside the corollary relatives that may be in the area they tend to build up the ‘non-genetic’ emotional support network which supplies many ‘children’ and ‘brothers’, often these are lifelong relationships that last no matter where the priest is assigned, with the normal visiting and socializing and recreational past times.

The only ‘priests on tap’ that seem to be the parish celibate ideal are actually monks, but the reality is the abbot will protect his little band from the encroachments of the outside world so these men have less time for a parish than one would expect too.

In my opinion, the financial argument is a non-starter. The larger parishes will always find the money. For example, most parish schools have gone from mostly celibate nuns and brothers as teachers to mostly married laypersons as teachers in my lifetime, this has definitely impacted the finances of the parishes and the families with schoolchildren, but the cost was met. The cost of a few married priests on top of that is insignificant.

 

[malphono]

The same issue has come up in this forum several times before, and while I apologize for the redundancy, I have to repeat what I’ve said in the past.

In the “old country” (I’m speaking here of the Middle East, but I believe the Slavic reality was pretty much the same – with the normal cultural variations, of course), married priests were also known as “village priests” and often had a heard of sheep or goats to tend. Or a small plot of land to farm. Or a wood bench and lathe, etc, to make furniture No matter what it was that they did, though, it was done to support the wife and children. In other words, they were part of the village, not separate from it. Whatever the trade, neither the diocese nor the parish supported the priest’s wife and children. The priest did. The demands on them as priests were certainly real, but it was within the context of a small community where everybody knew everybody’s name.

I am, of course, not opposed to the ordination of married men. It’s part of our Oriental and Eastern tradition (and a venerable part – my family tree has had its share), and even S Paul speaks to it. At the same time, though, I’m not thrilled with the idea that a married priest’s wife and family should be supported by the diocese or even the parish. The “old way” was otherwise. IMHO that same “otherwise” is just as valid now as it was in the past.

I’ll likely get slammed for supporting the “worker priest” idea, but in the case of married men, that is exactly the tradition. OK, sure, in the 21st century telecommuting might be one of the replacement for the sheep and goats, but the underlying principle remains. Personally, I see no reason to change it.

Just my :twocents:

 

[guanophore]

Did you even read my post? I said COULD mean…

The Eastern Rites have much stricter abstinence practices. As a result, Eastern Priests are comitted to abstain from the marital embrace for a large part of the liturgical year. In fact, one of the reasons the Latin Rite went to choosing priests from the celibate monastac communities was the increase in frequency of the Eucharist, since the abstinence rules did not affect their marital relations.

 

[guanophore]

l always be some white clergy in the ranks from this point on, as long as the church survives, so everyone has to pull together to support these families and help their children get a decent higher education.

Did there used to be a paucity of “white” clergy? Are you using this term racially, and if so, are you talking about those from Anglo-European extraction?

 

[notredame_999]

The Eastern Rites have much stricter abstinence practices. As a result, Eastern Priests are comitted to abstain from the marital embrace for a large part of the liturgical year. In fact, one of the reasons the Latin Rite went to choosing priests from the celibate monastac communities was the increase in frequency of the Eucharist, since the abstinence rules did not affect their marital relations.

Evidence? Are the married Anglican clergy that have been recently ordained forced to abstain from the marital act? I don’t think so but I could be wrong…

 

[guanophore]

Without getting into the whole Latin vs Eastern controversy, I’d say this is a very good example of where a married priesthood may be good in practice (for the East) but very impractical in reality. A married priest with a large family will be a bigger drain on the parish’s finances, and in return you’ll get less time devoted to the church.

Yes. This is one of the factors in this discipline becoming regular practice in the West. The Church was overburdened with claims of people claiming to have the illegitimate children of priests, and demanding support. It became quickly clear that priests who came from monastic traditions that were serious about their celibacy were the perfect prevention to these financial burdens.

 

[notredame_999]

Yes. This is one of the factors in this discipline becoming regular practice in the West. The Church was overburdened with claims of people claiming to have the illegitimate children of priests, and demanding support. It became quickly clear that priests who came from monastic traditions that were serious about their celibacy were the perfect prevention to these financial burdens.

So in other words economics more than the nature of the pleasure associated with the marital act itself is what caused mandatory clerical celiaby? Or was it both?

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

The Eastern Rites have much stricter abstinence practices. As a result, Eastern Priests are comitted to abstain from the marital embrace for a large part of the liturgical year. In fact, one of the reasons the Latin Rite went to choosing priests from the celibate monastac communities was the increase in frequency of the Eucharist, since the abstinence rules did not affect their marital relations.

This is a tradition that is no codeified in law.

Did there used to be a paucity of “white” clergy? Are you using this term racially, and if so, are you talking about those from Anglo-European extraction?

White clergy is just another term for secular clergy, or clergy not bound to celibacy.

 

[Harpazo]

Just curious how the eastern rites are able to financially support the families of married priests, especially since living a chaste marriage without artifical birth control could mean 7,8,9 even 10 children. Thanks.

There are more important things than money in this world.

I can’t speak for Eastern Catholicism because I never knew any married priests in those churches, but I have met several married Orthodox priests. My spiritual father back home is married with 3 children and is taking care of his aging mother. He told me that there is a certain grace that comes with the priesthood upon taking Holy Orders. Of course it is not a magic power or anything of that nature, this we all know, but it is still a struggle as one should expect. He works doing home repairs in addition to his priestly duties. His popadia does not work outside the house. They live very simply and humbly (and they managed to survive WITHOUT television ) and his kids are incredibly hard-working and devoted to the building up of the parish.

Ironically, I have found my Orthodox priest to be more available to me and other parishioners than any celibate Roman Catholic priest I have ever had. I’m not saying that this is the case across the board, but it has in my situation. The married presbyterate has been a 2000 year tradition in our Church and I see no reason to put an end to it.

In Christ,
Andrew

 

[notredame_999]

There are more important things than money in this world.

I can’t speak for Eastern Catholicism because I never knew any married priests in those churches, but I have met several married Orthodox priests. My spiritual father back home is married with 3 children and is taking care of his aging mother. He told me that there is a certain grace that comes with the priesthood upon taking Holy Orders. Of course it is not a magic power or anything of that nature, this we all know, but it is still a struggle as one should expect. He works doing home repairs in addition to his priestly duties. His popadia does not work outside the house. They live very simply and humbly (and they managed to survive WITHOUT television ) and his kids are incredibly hard-working and devoted to the building up of the parish.

Ironically, I have found my Orthodox priest to be more available to me and other parishioners than any celibate Roman Catholic priest I have ever had. I’m not saying that this is the case across the board, but it has in my situation. The married presbyterate has been a 2000 year tradition in our Church and I see no reason to put an end to it.

In Christ,
Andrew

Thanks Andrew. I actually agree with you. I’m borderline depressed right now because I am a young latin catholic who feels I am called to both to marriage and the priesthood just like my eastern bretheren. As we all know this is not an option for me in the latin rite- so I looked into switching rites, marrying, and then maybe get ordained. Not an option.

The reason why I brought up money was because supporting a priest’s wife and children are one of the main objections latin-catholics bring up when discussing a married priesthood.

 

[The_Old_Medic]

I know Eastern Catholic Priests that are entirely supported by their congregations. In their home countries, this is the established pattern.

There is absolutely no reason why any Catholic Parish could NOT support a Priest with a family. Our Protestant brethern do it routinely (I know, my grandfather was a protestant Minister for 55 years).