How are we related in heaven?

[BrunoMaria]

Whenever I spoke about the dying of our younger son when he was 26 in 1997, I added that I KNOW (not hope but KNOW) that I will see him again, and that faith and trust in God is the one and only thing that keep us all. Without it we don’t own the demanded love in God. Then we have nothing and are nothing; nothing but a a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. (1Cor 13,1 + 13,13).

In this connection however, we must never forget our divine relation in God’s triangular love in which He in His grace involved us; God’s love embracing all alike, which I tried to put into this graphic I hope that shows here either in text or below.

Now, the question remains: Who is our next; who is my neighbor? (Luke 10,29) - which includes: Is my son, my daughter, my wife or husband much more my next, than this unknown person I just read about in the obituaries - that person I just run in on the road, that guy who caused my anger the other day?

Jesus gave us a clear answer among others in Mt 22,30; we’ll be like the Angels. How do we interpret this? God created all. God created the Angels. The question remains; why where we humans (since we will be like the Angels then) not just as well created as Angels in the first place?
The answer is obvious. It’s Lucifers rebellion and fall.
How come?

God’s absolute justice and righteousness did of course not create us as Angels, for if He had, it wouldn’t be fair fo those Angels who indeed had a very hard temptation - for Lucifer’s colorful character with their promises. Against God, or for God’s love - versus Lucifer.
To us today, this seems a silly decision with an absolutely clear end, because we know the outcome. The Angels did of course not know, and many fell for this indeed strong temptation. Strong; for even Angels fell for it. Lucifer and his legions seemed strong, mighty, colorful, rich and the lot, and he promised absolute independence and sovereignty without God, or not even without, but as an alternative parallel to God’s kingdom. Let’s be assured, that this temptation even to Angels indeed was just as tempting, as our strongest today’s temptations versus God are (for which atheists >and other religions who deny Jesus Christ< keep falling).

So, since the not created yet Angels had same right as those living in heaven (here we hear strong relevances to “abortion”), the new creatures had to be on another place - the for them to be created Earth. A true paradise - until first fall into sin - by same temptation Lucifer’s legion fell for. Rebellion versus God: “Thou shalt not” we turned into “but I will”. Such we asked for pain and misery; but we - through Jesus’ salvation got another chance; our very personal decision for or against God by our free will.
Do we pass that final verification, then we will BE LIKE THE ANGELS.

Now - back to the opening question “How are we related in heaven?” and to Jesus revelation in Mt 22,30: When we are as Jesus said, like the Angels in heaven, then we all are (here disregarding our rank in heaven) direct Children of God. Related to God only, as though certainly individual, but still “simply” angelic God’s creations; God’s children - related to all others alike; not more to our earthly child or brother than to any other of God’s children. Being related to our son, daughter, brother, sister, wife or and former stranger on earth alike, trough direct and first relation to God. Meaning, that though we of course feel other presently on earth; our closest deceased relative then is in exactly same relation to us, as this other person is, we on earth never saw, but just casually might have heard of in the obituary or media.
Finally let me confess, that my moaning about my deceased son - our moaning about our deceased close relative, contains quite a bit of egoism. OK - that’s not sin, but human. Jesus too cried over Lazarus or his close relative John the Baptist. At the time however, nobody could get into heaven yet, for Jesus’ salvation had not yet be done not yet be finished when John was beheaded. Let’s be sure, that now, after Jesus accomplished His Salvation, this person we mourn, is in God’s hemisphere, and he who lived in God’s word, won’t desire to return for but a second.

Yours
Bruno

 

[DaveBj]

That is a long and complex initial post, and what follows is only my personal opinion.

The relationships with which we humans are most concerned in our lives on this earth are the “horizontal” relationships that we maintain with each other – friends with friends, spouses with spouses, parents with children, etc. Our human nature leads us to believe that this is the way things will be in the afterlife. I got heavy doses of this in my previous protestant, southern-gospel life, especially in songs that talked about meeting our loved ones on the other side (“shake glad hands with the elders, tell my kindred good morning”)

Here is my take on this, in the light of what Jesus said in the passage that you referred to. What Jesus meant when he said that we would “be like the angels” is that our relationships would not be horizontal, as they are on earth, but vertical. Angels are not concerned with each other, with how the Western Seraph Football League playoffs are going, etc. They are concerned solely with what God is doing and with what their part is. I believe that we will not be concerned with relationships from our former lives on earth; we will be focused completely on God and on Jesus.

I know that this kind of answer is no comfort to people who are hurting now because of horizontal relationships that have been disrupted by death. However, I believe that when we ourselves cross to the other side, the pains that we are feeling now will no longer matter.

 

[BrunoMaria]

…relationships… on this earth are… friends with friends, spouses with spouses, parents with children, etc. Our human nature leads us to believe that this is the way things will be in the afterlife… What Jesus meant when he said that we would “be like the angels” is that our relationships would not be horizontal, as they are on earth, but vertical. Angels are not concerned with each other, … They are concerned solely with what God is doing and with what their part is…

Servus Dave and all (a typical greeting here in Karlsruhe)
Let’s gladly doubt this unconcern among Angels, for not only that we will be like the Angels, but the Angels vice versa will be like us, and we definitely do care, interfere, cooperate, talk with each other, as Lazarus spoke to Abraham in Luke 16,23 - Eliah and Moses to Jesus in Luke 9,33 - the Angels among each other in Gen 32,2= 1Moses 32,2 and many other verses, such as when Michael’s legions of Angels decided to fight for God, and Lucifer legions same against God.

I believe that we will not be concerned with relationships from our former lives on earth; we will be focused completely on God and on Jesus

True, but still we will be of concern and joy also among each other, for not only in Isaiah 25,6-8 we hear that we also will feast on the King’s banquet (which also Jesus said) which also is connected with dialogues among all Saints and so also among us former humans, but in any case a lot more joyful than we ever can think of, as we read in 1Cor 2,9: “What no eye has seen, nor ear heard, nor the heart of man conceived, what God has prepared for those who love him” including our talks with those we where involved with on earth in manyfold ways - all concerning God, since all we do do or don’t do, is somehow connected with God.

I know that this kind of answer is no comfort to people who are hurting now because of horizontal relationships that have been disrupted by death.

It is, as soon as we include 1Cor 2,9 and add: We don’t really know. But nowhere in the Gospel we hear, that all our thoughts and energy in heaven solely is directed on God only, disregarding others. How could we disregard others who are loved by God and His own children. Parents want their children to love and mix with earth other and cooperate and love each other. God won’t want other. If in heaven we really where not concerned with each other, Jesus had not demanded to love each other as He loved us - in John 13,34 and 15,12. Every disciple of Jesus kept his individuality and was loved by Jesus even when St. Peter denied Him three times (Mk 14,16).

However, I believe that when we ourselves cross to the other side, the pains that we are feeling now will no longer matter.

Actually it will - not the pains of course, but all the rest will. Our relation to God and our relation to our next on earth, will matter a lot.

Servus
Bruno