How are we to speak to apostates?

[Jayda]

hola,

i am very confused about this and have mixed feelings… maybe this is a question better left for the apologetics board.

i have encountered apostates on Christian Forums, and then on an islamic webforum. these are actual Catholic apostates… not those who have committed schism. i remain polite when i chat with them but i deliberately try not to talk to them.

it is very difficult sometimes because they can say terrible, blasphemous things about the Church and claim that since they were Catholics they “know” that such and such blasphemous lie is true… when this happens it is very difficult to maintain my composure, let alone my compassion… one such example is the words of a woman who committed apostacy and had this to say about the Church (mocking the Holy Father)

“Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul,” added the pontiff in his own words.

Did the Vatican ever apologize for the hundreds of years of ordering little boys to be castrated for the sake of art since their voice would sound higher when they sang?

such jabs are very hurtful, but far more dangerous are the lies apostates spread about trinity, christology or the bible.

i feel very sorry for the apostates i have met, and i do pray for them to repent but how should we be when we are forced to speak to them? are we to try to actively bring them back, to ignore them and allow them to go on their way… should we considered them shunned and not talk to them at all… can they be considered friends?

it is very difficult… muchas gracias for any answers

Dominus Vobiscum

 

[DallasCatholic]

hola,

i am very confused about this and have mixed feelings… maybe this is a question better left for the apologetics board.

i have encountered apostates on Christian Forums, and then on an islamic webforum. these are actual Catholic apostates… not those who have committed schism. i remain polite when i chat with them but i deliberately try not to talk to them.

it is very difficult sometimes because they can say terrible, blasphemous things about the Church and claim that since they were Catholics they “know” that such and such blasphemous lie is true… when this happens it is very difficult to maintain my composure, let alone my compassion… one such example is the words of a woman who committed apostacy and had this to say about the Church (mocking the Holy Father)

such jabs are very hurtful, but far more dangerous are the lies apostates spread about trinity, christology or the bible.

i feel very sorry for the apostates i have met, and i do pray for them to repent but how should we be when we are forced to speak to them? are we to try to actively bring them back, to ignore them and allow them to go on their way… should we considered them shunned and not talk to them at all… can they be considered friends?

it is very difficult… muchas gracias for any answers

Dominus Vobiscum

Ask for documentation to back up their claims and always speak the truth. Did the Church ever “order” little boys to be castrated? Not to my knowledge. Ask to see the proof behind this assertion. If you let apostates spread lies without challenging them then you give credance to those lies in the eyes of others. Be unfailingly polite and kind and loving. Speak the truth in the gentlest possible manner but speak the Truth. We were called by Christ to spread the Gospel.

 

[Mirdath]

You can pretty much figure that if we want to come back, we’ll let you know

However, regarding some ex-Catholics’ bitterness towards the Church… there’s something you need to keep in mind. They believed it. They were told that God loved them unconditionally, that the Church was right and good and the way to eternal peace. They believed that by following the commands of the Church they would enter paradise, no matter what this world threw at them – and for many people, that’s quite a lot. But until they withdrew from Catholicism, they believed that God would see them through to the end.

That kind of weight, that deep emotional and spiritual investment, doesn’t just slide off. It hurts to realize that maybe God won’t raise you up at the end of the day, that maybe the paradise you were promised is only ashes and dust, that the Church is only another group of people who think they’re right but can’t prove it. It’s intensely painful, and unless and until the apostate can come to terms with that new worldview and accept it, there’s plenty to be bitter or angry about. And sometimes they target the Church; a lie doesn’t become truth merely because one’s teachers earnestly believe it, after all.

Those feelings of hurt can take a long time to go away; for some people they never do. You can’t make them recede, and you can’t wrangle us back into the Church yourself. It’s up to us.

That doesn’t mean ‘yes, we want to be shunned’. We’re still people; and, if you’re truly Catholic, you still believe God loves us even if we don’t. Talk to us, befriend us, even show us by your own example how a good Catholic lives – but please don’t try to missionary to us.

Don’t be too worried over those whose bitterness has turned to hatred. Worry more over those who remain ‘Catholic’ but forget about the Christ’s commandment to love. They are your Pharisees, the legalist zealots, the theocratic fascists – Catholicism’s own worst enemy is within itself. Such people are the ones you should truly be trying to reach and convert to your religion’s real message.

 

[Jayda]

hola,

muchas gracias for your opinion however my question was for Catholics about what the Church requires of us in this situation… withdraw/shun or embrace, challenge or accept, questions like these… i do not think non Catholics would be able to answer what i am asking… and my question is not an invitation to consider the impossibility that there is an appropriate reason for leaving the Church, or that there are parallel or better standards of conduct other than the guidance given by the Church…

que Dios te bendiga

 

[DallasCatholic]

hola,

muchas gracias for your opinion however my question was for Catholics about what the Church requires of us in this situation… withdraw/shun or embrace, challenge or accept, questions like these… i do not think non Catholics would be able to answer what i am asking… and my question is not an invitation to consider the impossibility that there is an appropriate reason for leaving the Church, or that there are parallel or better standards of conduct other than the guidance given by the Church…

que Dios te bendiga

I think there was some valid advice in Mirdath’s comments, and even some Church teaching. We are called to spread the Gospel as I mentioned in my earlier response. Mirdath’s comment regarding showing your faith by how you live echos what the Church has taught for centuries. As St. Francis of Assisi said “Preach the Gospel always, when necessary use words.” We should never shun anyone rather we are called to try to bring the light of God’s Truth to everyone. I believe the best way to do that is through a holy and Catholic life.

 

[Island_Oak]

…i have encountered apostates on Christian Forums, and then on an islamic webforum… i remain polite when i chat with them but i deliberately try not to talk to them.

…i feel very sorry for the apostates i have met, and i do pray for them to repent but how should we be when we are forced to speak to them?..

You are never “forced” to interact with anonymous posters to internet forums–you chose to. The solution is simple: either ignore/avoid discourse with those whom you strongly disagree or are offended by–or–unplug your computer and interact with live human beings instead–you rarely encounter such boldly opinionated folks when they must defend their position in person and in public.

 

[Mirdath]

hola,

muchas gracias for your opinion however my question was for Catholics about what the Church requires of us in this situation… withdraw/shun or embrace, challenge or accept, questions like these… i do not think non Catholics would be able to answer what i am asking… and my question is not an invitation to consider the impossibility that there is an appropriate reason for leaving the Church, or that there are parallel or better standards of conduct other than the guidance given by the Church…

que Dios te bendiga

I wasn’t trying to start anything, just trying to be helpful

You don’t sound like you’re really sure what you’re dealing with, and I happen to have a great deal of personal experience on the other side of the fence (and jumping over it). I wasn’t addressing reasons for leaving the Church, the propriety of such actions, or the existence of other standards of conduct, but the effects of such an emotional and spiritual upheaval in someone’s life. Understanding is critical: from a strictly, merely logical point of view, you can’t explain to people why they should return without knowing why they left. And even that doesn’t take into account how they feel about it.

 

[otjm]

Jayda: you ask how you or anyone else should deal with apostates.

With love; that is how Christ treated all. And to treat others with love, it helps at times to understand how they got into the postion they are in. That in part seems to be what Midrath was posting about. If you can begin to understand how a person got into the position they are in, you may be able to help them out. It is certain that knowing how they got there is not going to hinder you in helping them back.

Keep in mind that no one wants or likes to be judged. That includes both people who know they have done wrong, and those who truly believe they are innocent of any wrong-doing. The fastest way to shut down communicaiton is to come across as judgemental. And you need to understand that not being judgemental does not equate with approval of their choice. Some people are so full of their own assuredness of moral issues that they cannot get that point straight.

Out of 11 cousins on one side of my family, I have 6 who have left the Church. I will take no sass from them if they want to bad-mouth the Church; in particular if they choose to misquote either what the Church teaches or does. On the other hand, neither will I condemn them; that is God’s job. My job is to live the Gospel in a way they can see, and be available should they want to try and make their way back. Living the Gospel does not include shunning them, condemning them, telling them they will or are likely to go to hell, avoiding them, or giving them an artificial friendliness. I care about and like each one of them. Well, maybe all but one, but I would have problems with that one even if they had not left the Church… that is a personality issue, not a choice issue.

If you have some question as to how Christ would react, go read the story in John about His meeting a woman at the well, and see how He treated her. Jewish men didn’t have much to do with women in public if they were not related to them; they avoided even going into Samaria, and most certainly would not touch something a Samaritan woman had touched, as they would be rendered ritually impure. Read the story.