How are we to understand Sociopaths?

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I_love_rocks said:
Monte, I agree with your asessment that the effects of the Mass, the rosaries, and private adoration cannot be measured. Their effects are in God’s hands and He is divine. But I’m not so sure that St. Dismas was a sociopath. He had remorse. Sociopaths are not capable of remorse. And lets not forget, he wasn’t up there being crucified with Jesus because he went on a sereial killing murder spree. He stole something. I stole a nailpolish when I was a kid. They didn’t crucify me for that. I think the Romans didn’t care if the punishment fit the crime. They just enjoyed the punishment so much that it fit every crime. I would tend more towards the Romans in charge of the torture were probably sociopaths.
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Sociopaths lie.

Sociopaths can fake sincerity.

And the make stuff up so they can get sympathy.

Dismas had nothing to lose, so he did this three act play and Jesus said, “Ok, you’re in.”

AND that is a lesson for us all.

ALWAYS beg for forgiveness from Jesus.

I understand that not everybody who says “Lord, Lord” will be saved.]
 
I figure if Dismas, who is a saint, was not sincere, Jesus would have seen right through him and not told him he would see him in paradise.
 
Agreed, if St. Dismas was (pardon the expression) “blowing smoke”, Jesus would have been angry with him. The only reason He entertained His ‘confesson’ was because it was contrite, and because it was genuine. I think if you’re going before the King of Kings and the Lord of Lords, ya better have more than a ‘three-act-play’. He’s no dummy. He IS Truth. St. Dismas is a saint because he was completely sanctified by Christ in His confession of guilt and confession of true faith from the cross, and he was in essence offering his death to Christ to atone for his sins. Christ accepted it and joined it with HIs death, thereby saving him.
 
Hi, God bless all of you. I know we hate (usually) resurrecting threads, but,
YES, I am Resurrecting a VERY OLD Thread, This One,
but only because it and all the comments on it are SO VERY FASCINATING
and because this issue was being discussed on TV today, or was it last night?
(( I have such a screwball work schedule and I’m so tired all the time, that I lose track
of when some programs were on)).

This thread has tons of fantastic, observations and
comments (and quite a few filled with tragic pain).
Some of you have heard of my sale stealing coworker who is also a bully.
I learned she has been doing this all over the Store, not just my dept, for two years and has been reported, and ORDERED TO STOP IT, over and over again, an order she simply ignores. Observing her; thinking about your comments, and today’s show, has led me to question if this woman is actually a sociopath.
Though she sometimes (for show) showers people with insincere affection (because she’ll turn right around and steal the $50 commission and the $1000 sale from the very lady she just hugged an hour ago and shows NO remorse and has never ONCE apologized to ANYone), I have become convinced that there is no way to stop her from strealing our sales, both right in front of us via bullying, and behind our backs by taking EVEN EXCHANGES under HER employee number (which is stealing our sales. An even exchange, she has done no work to obtain the sale of the item, WE HAVE, all they are doing is bringing it back to her and getting a replacement (defective, whatever). She knows it is stealing to do this. We have all done it to each other, but in everybody else’s case, it was done without conscious deliberate intent (a very busy day, lots of customers, the register phone ringing off the hook, people get distracted, screw up, it happens, no malice intended. Hers is habitual, continuous, deliberate).
I had to report her again today, by email, (I’m off today) because she did it to me again, last night, right in front of me. I had exceeded my daily sales goals, and recognized the three women who came to have the two flatware sets by ONEIDA ($125 a piece) re-rung on their just-opened Store Credit Card. It was my sale. I had done all the work. I went to the bathroom. When I came out, there she was, ringing it up under her number (knowingly, believe me, through observation I know, not think but KNOW, that she METICULOUSLY checks the employee numbers on the receipts to see if the Return, Exchange, or re-ring is something SHE sold. She has devised a way to “fool” the register, if it is her sale, into taking the return WITHOUT causing her to lose HER sales for the day OR her commssion. This was deliberate,and she thought I didn’t know what she was doing. On the other register, I watched as she took one minute to re-scan their items, charge it to their new corporate account, and the woman signed the signature screen. As soon as she punched “ACCEPT”, my sales figures went, that second, from 108% of my goal, down to 96%. And she got my, MY , hard earned money. AND put me below daily goal, which hurts my performance review).

So, I am dealing with a sociopath at work.
But what, REALLY is a sociopath? They talk about brain waves and chemistry and on and on. Good grief, the Fall of our First Parents screwed up all of us in this area. A Sociopath is simply a willful sinner who, currently, feels absolutely no moral obligation to Repent. Boil it right down to it, that’s what they are. Willful sinners with no perceived need to repent and a RIGHT TO CONTINUE ABUSING EVERYONE. That is perilously close to the Sin Against the Holy Spirit, and it can’t all be blamed on brain-waves or other chemical problems upstairs, because the Holy Spirit can bring Repentance to ANYONE. PERIOD. No ifs, ands, or buts.
The Sociopath is someone who can repent but will not and won’t even
ENTERTAIN the idea of repenting. And they’ll willfully use your love for them to get things from you. Now, we ALL do THAT to some degree too. We call this, You scratch my back, and I’ll scratch yours. But the sociopath, by contrast, goes much further, he or she will willfully, with the INTENT to destroy you, DESTROY YOU in the process of getting what they want from you, and will ENJOY causing the destruction. ENJOY it. And if they remember it later, it won’t even bother them one bit. Not even a twinge.
Even Judas Iscariot felt enough remorse to return the money. Too bad he didn’t go all the way, kneel and pray for forgiveness for three days instead of killing himself.
But even HE wasn’t, FULLY, a Sociopath like the people we are describing.
Even HE wasn’t, and HE was called, by God Himself, The Son Of Perdition (Damnation).
Wow.

I propose that we petition Christ to SAVE THESE PEOPLE, these Sociopaths.
For THEIR salvations’ sake, and for the sakes of the MANY people whose lives ARE GOING TO BE WRECKED, and wrecked ON PURPOSE, INTENTIONALLY, if we DON’T.
So, may I suggest the Highly Efficacious prayer, given to Sister Maria Consolata Betrone,
by Jesus himself, each offering of which he honors by granting salvation to ONE soul each time and repairs 1,000 blasphemies?
IT is:
JESUS, MARY, I LOVE YOU, SAVE SOULS!!
Tell him,
Lord Jesus Christ, I am offering you these efficacious “acts of love” prayers, which Thou gavest to Thy Servant Sister Maria Consolata Betrone, for the repentance, conversion and salvation of those who are now Sociopaths, AMEN.
And then pray the prayer over and over and over again.
You will be showing True Mercy not only to the Sociopath, but to his or her victims too.
I’m going to offer 50 of them a day for the repentance and conversion & salvation of those
who currently are sociopaths, because THIS salvation can ONLY be obtained by a miracle of extraordinary grace. These people WILL NEVER repent otherwise.
God bless you all,
Jaypeeto4
 
Excuse my english but Im from south america, so please understand. My opinion is: Lacking compasion or empaty dosnt mean you are doom or damn, it means you have to use other gifts god has give you to see. God its not only love, its also the word, the truth, and people like sociopaths can recognize that (if they have some imagination). Its only a diferent aproach.

For example: They can belive in reason. They can belive that the message is a way to better our surroundings and the life of them (in the long term) even if for practical reasons (the need to succesed or the need to see your children better you). It may be controversial but we must try to understand everyone (by compasion, empathy or imagination).

JF
 
I don’t think we ‘normal’ folks with a conscience can understand or relate to the thinking of a sociopath. Some of these folks are just self centered, greedy, uncaring individuals who do not abide by any rules or sense of fair play.

Even very successful people can surprise you. When I was still working I was in a meeting with an executive and her staff. I had not been getting cooperation from her staff on a project that I was assigned to, and I mentioned this as a matter of fact during the meeting. It was at most one or two sentences, just stating that we needed their help and the success of the project depended on their help.

The project was several months behind, because we were never able to meet with her staff. They were always too busy or unavailable. I did not even mention this in my remarks.

After the meeting, a day or so later, I got called into my supervisors office, and found out that the ‘lady’ had called my supervisor literally IN TEARS and said that I had insulted her and her staff and that I had been a monster in the meeting. I was incredulous and so were my managers because they know me better and knew that I would never do such a thing.

In fact three of my team members were also at the meeting and they confirmed that the incident never happened. I had only made a couple of opening statements and the rest of the meeting was conducted by my team members. But the way this executive reacted it sounded like I had cussed her out. She had purposely lied about what happened, and essentially tried to get me fired. Fortunately for me, I already had 30 years tenure and there was no way to fire me unless I literally killed someone. At the time, I really wanted to let this ******* have it, job or no job.

It baffles me to this day, why or how this executive could purposely make up this total fairy tale. There were witnesses to the event. I was several levels below her in the grand scheme of things, and as far as I could tell no threat to her position. As a matter of fact she was very new to her position and could have easily said, what her staff had failed to do was before her time. She could have very easlily gotten me fired. IF I were a contractor, I would have been out the door in a heart beat.

Some people have zero integrity and they do not care what happens to anyone else. They need to satisfy their appetite for greed or power or infuence and they do not care who they step on in their way. I choose not to try and understand them, I just want to avoid them as much as possible.

IF one is trying to live a life with honesty and integrity, I do not believe it is even possible to relate to folks who are totally dishonest and have no integrity. They operate under completely different standards (or virtually no standard) of morality.
 
BernadetteM said:
I was marriend to a sociopath for several years. At the point of the end of the marriage he actually admitted to being a sociopath. He knew what he did was wrong, however, he justified everything because he felt entitled.

Whether all of them are highly intelligent or not, i can’t say, but he was very intelligent and he could have been a success in whatever he chose to do. Instead he loved to get one over on business associates and even people he considered to be friends.

In the end I do believe that he had some remorse for what he created in my life, but this didn’t stop him from continuing his behavior.

I will say that they are very clever and can fool about anyone. I do not consider it a mental illness, there are evil people in the world as we all can see. Their choices of evil are from free will. He told me he got a high from his actions, it seems that they have an addiction of fooling others. The world is only about them in the end and the hurt and damage they cause is easily left behind.

Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary

Bernadette
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Did you suspect demonic influence?
Did you squirt him with holy Water while he slept or put crucifixes under his pillow or mattress to see if he would react to them, did you make the sign of the cross over him?

I believe Demonic Influence is being totally overlooked in today’s society.
Today we put a label on things, suggesting that it’s origin is not demonic, but may be hereditary or psychological to which medication is given, which in my opinion, numbs the patient while the problem is still there gaining strength.

By doing so, we deny the existence of evil, which denies the devil really exists, by not fearing the devil, we give excuses for all the calamities that occur. I’ve been told that the biggest lie the devil ever convinced us of is that he does not exist. And sadly to say with the intercession of modern medicine we continue to attribute diabolical actions with an explanation. That satisfies most people’s interest.

Also by not fearing the devil, we feel that our moral actions will not be judged and so cater to immoral and lawlessness tendencies. Acknowledging God as one who can save us from the problems we encounter increases our faith and pisses off the devil, in an attempt to discourage you from continuing a relationship with God, the devil increases misfortunes to happen on you with the hope of you thinking, “Ever since I went back to God, “poop” has been hitting the fan, maybe I should avoid God, and it will go away”.

Once our souls are won by the devil, there is no need for him to try anymore, but show a little resistance to his lies and he will attack you either thru occurring misfortunes, and when that does not work, thru direct contact.
 
Catholic_Prime said:
Did you suspect demonic influence?
Did you squirt him with holy Water while he slept or put crucifixes under his pillow or mattress to see if he would react to them, did you make the sign of the cross over him?

I believe Demonic Influence is being totally overlooked in today’s society.
Today we put a label on things, suggesting that it’s origin is not demonic, but may be hereditary or psychological to which medication is given, which in my opinion, numbs the patient while the problem is still there gaining strength.

By doing so, we deny the existence of evil, which denies the devil really exists, by not fearing the devil, we give excuses for all the calamities that occur. I’ve been told that the biggest lie the devil ever convinced us of is that he does not exist. And sadly to say with the intercession of modern medicine we continue to attribute diabolical actions with an explanation. That satisfies most people’s interest.

Also by not fearing the devil, we feel that our moral actions will not be judged and so cater to immoral and lawlessness tendencies. Acknowledging God as one who can save us from the problems we encounter increases our faith and pisses off the devil, in an attempt to discourage you from continuing a relationship with God, the devil increases misfortunes to happen on you with the hope of you thinking, “Ever since I went back to God, “poop” has been hitting the fan, maybe I should avoid God, and it will go away”.

Once our souls are won by the devil, there is no need for him to try anymore, but show a little resistance to his lies and he will attack you either thru occurring misfortunes, and when that does not work, thru direct contact.
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Personally I believe that evil exists today as much if not more than hundreds of years ago. Although I don’t believe it is heredity, there does seem to be a tendency within some families to have more than one sociopathic member. Whether this is the influence from their environment I don’t know.

I am dealing with another one who is married to my daughter. He was very well known in his field and from the outside appears to be a nice fellow. He has molested my granddaughter, controlled the whole family and destroyed his son who just turned 13.

The courts have not protected the child as there are technecalities and the court never wants to separate children from either parent, even if the parent is abusive. I pray to St. Michael the Archangel every night to protest my daughter and her family from him.

At this point, after a year some of the professionals have stated to his attorney that he is toxic. So it appears that his evilness is starting to become more apparent. Of course these professionals don’t believe in evil, just think he is not a decent parent with the little contact they have had with him. He tries to control the therapists, mediators, attorneys and has never followed court orders. We just pray that he won’t get custody of any of the children and once all is decided will stop trying to destroy my daughter.

Believe it or not his father is a Lutheran minister, yet he certainly doesn’t believe in God or Hell.

God Bless

Bernadette
 
I am thirteen years old and have been told by doctors I am most likely a sociopath. I always knew that I thought differently then other children and that I exhibit most of the qualities on the lists (lack of remorse, killing insects for fun, rarely smiling) I am actually an actress in a local theatre as a hobby and I lie all the time.

All I know is that I’m probably going to hell because I cannot feel sorry for my sins. I’m not sure what happened to make me end up this way. My family is fine, my parents are together, I’m never lonely, I have plenty of friends, I get alright grades and have fun with my hobby. I have been going to Catholic school my entire life. I believe in God and Jesus, I defend the Church whenever I have a chance, I am against same-sex marriage and abortion, I want to love God, I want to go to Heaven, and I desperately want to be a pious Catholic…

I don’t expect anyone to really understand the way I think right now. I can’t remember a time when I didn’t do things like this…when I was five I would ‘embellish’ stories of how my day went just for the heck of it, as would any child. Most grew out of things like that; I didn’t.
Just as a thought right now, not recommended to be followed unless you believe listening to an angsty teenager is a good idea:

Stay away from sociopaths. They are not always dangerous but don’t take that chance. If you find out someone is a sociopath, leave them alone immediately, because people around sociopaths get hurt. There is no need to be cutting or nasty. Chances are they know who they are and know why you’re cutting ties with them.

I don’t particularly want to go to hell. Does anyone know anything that could help my condition, short of an exorcism, which I don’t think is necessary, as I am not possessed?
 
I have not been on here in forever. I was, a couple of years ago, bewildered by the actions/influence on my life by one. I am so grateful that i walked away from him - by the grace of God. And although there has been a slight, distant presence made aware a few times through mutual acquaintances, he has been out of my life for over two years. My point is it can be possible and we can leave that ugly stuff behind. Thanks to God! Love it - there is hope!
 
I_love_rocks said:
I’m in a very friendly debate on Sociopathy. I believe Sociopathy is formed by abuse, possibly pre-disposed to illness by mental frailty? Not sure… My husband believes people are born like that - like some other mental illnesses. I can’t accept that because ‘God doesn’t make junk’ and the Sociopath is incapable of remorse. Thererore, from conception, they would be incapable of remorse to God for any sin they are guilty of throughout their life including original sin. Without ever being remorseful, they couldn’t be forgiven. Would God actually create someone like that?? I could be wrong, but I don’t think so. I guess I just don’t understand the Catholic view… any help would be greatly appreciated.
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I can not know God’s mind. But take my life for example. God knew how my mother and father and my father’s mother were. Yet I was born into this world where they were all living in the same house, charged with being my caregivers. And from a very young age I was neglected and abused. My earliest memory is of my drunken grandmother pulling me around by the hair at the age of 2, yelling at me. My life was daily abuse and suffering.

Why would God allow such things to happen? I don’t ask these questions anymore. All I know, is that for me, I have the unique understanding of people’s suffering and work in the human services field and am well liked by all my clients and respected for my skills by my clients and employers alike. And my skills and experience come from the unspeakable suffering I lived on a daily basis from a very young age… and from my quest to develop an understanding of people and why they do the things they do. So, maybe, God had those circumstances in my life so that I could help others in similar circumstances, that come from similar backgrounds? Who knows. I have cried in my prayers many times “why me?” but this will not get me anywhere.

I learned that despite everything that happened to me, and despite none of it being my fault, that the problems were at that point IN ME so I had to take responsibility to try and work to get them out/cope with them/etc. Prior to taking that step I hated my parents and the whole world. It was the toughest pill I have ever swallowed in my whole life, taking on the responsibility to deal with all of the trauma put in me by my own family. I was more comfortable hating them and hating the world.

Should we all be born perfect, in perfect circumstances, with perfect parents and perfect lives? What would such a world work like and be like? I can’t comprehend such a world, although my suffering and problems still interfere with me being a good provider for my family. I pray for strength, etc. I’m not sure what else I can do. I have had, and still have, a very tough life. But people who grow up in homes like mine but in 3rd world countries have it much, much worse I would immagine. So I am greatful for all the blessings I have, for all the good things I have. I try and keep my focus there.
 
I was married to a Sociopath for almost 20 years, originally swept off my feet by his charms and flattery. I kept excusing his behavior because he wasn’t a believer in Christ (he was born Jewish), and I kept hoping he would accept Christ at some point and would then have the power of the holy spirit to guide his actions into the light and truth. Unfortunately, his hostility to Christ just increased, to the point where he told our two young children they had to choose between Jesus and him.

I have oscillated back and forth between thinking he deserves the condemnation that surely awaits someone who has continually demonstrated a spirit of anti-Christ (pathological lying, sexual and other addictions, adultery, stealing, using others, endangering the souls of precious children), to wondering if he will be given an extra measure of grace because he seems to have a mental illness and not in control of his faculties.

I do know that the rages he descended into when the subject of God and Christ arose appeared to look like demonic possession, and were often followed by extreme fatigue and amnesia of the event. It is a dangerous thing to be in a serious relationship with a sociopath because the enemy can lure you into cooperation/conciliation for the sake of the relationship, even as it threatens your spiritual health.

God has rightly warned us not to be yoked with unbelievers, but I have a very good friend whose husband was supposedly a devout Christian and he was diagnosed with psych test as a sociopath. In his case, his faith wasn’t enough to overcome the sociopath behaviors.

The question of whether this is an illness or a sin (or some combination of both) is hard for us to know with certainty, but I trust that God will be able to judge properly when the time comes.
 
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