How bad is murdering those who committ genocide?

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SnakeMauler

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If someone were to intervene and kill Turks who were torturing and murdering innocent Armenians and doing horrible things, would this be a mortal sin? Similiarly, would it be a sin to kill Nazi’s who were running concentration camps? I can’t help but wish, when looking at these horrible pictures, watching videos, and listening to eyewitness accounts that I could go back in time and stop these things. What do you guys think?

Also, if I walked in on someone raping a close one to me, how bad of a sin would it be if I killed them for the purpose of stopping the crime? Or would it be better just to inflict extreme blunt trauma enough to stop them and put them on trial?

Basically, is it ever possible that killing to DIRECTLY stop a horrendous crime from taking place is really really bad?

In the film “A time to kill”, how bad was it that Samuel L Jackson shot the 2 guys who brutally raped and tried to kill his daughter since they were probably going to be let off free due to racism?

-Snakemauler
 
GREAT QUESTION!! 👍

So, how bad would it be? Beats me.

One question you might want to ask yourself, though, is where do you stop? If you could go back in time to, say, 1944 and be at Auschwitz with a weapon – who would you kill? The man in charge? The second in command? The men who did the “quick” killing in gas chambers and the like? What about the barracks guards who watched the long and terrible path to death of the incarcerated? What about the men standing at the gate? How about the private who pulled KP for the soldiers and prisoners for a couple years? And what about the compassionate soldiers who tried to bring the little comfort they could, sometimes running interference, as it were, to protect innocent lives – would you kill those Nazis as well?

And here’s the clincher: What happens after you kill the ones responsible for the atrocities you see? Will all be peace and prosperity for the world? Or will others rise to take their place?

The problem of all this violence and hatred does not lie with one man, or even a few specific people. The problem is the heart of every human – it’s sin, plain and simple.

So how bad is murdering those who commit genocide? I don’t know. But it isn’t going to change anything in the long run 😦

Maranatha! Come, Lord Jesus!

Gertie
 
Ok, how about killing someone caught in the middle of a rape
 
My personal slant on it is that if you don’t need to kill then don’t. For example, if you are stopping a rape, it would be right to keep the head enough to not kill the person while stopping it. Use appropriate force etc. In the case that you must kill to protect the person being attacked, I imagine that it may be right to do it - it is a big sacrifice that you will have to live with and be held accountable for… but perhaps it would be the right thing to do.
 
Murdering someone like a Hitler/Mao/Kim Jon Ill is not only moral, it’s immoral to not do so if you have the chance.

If you think it’s immoral, then you have to answer for millions, and millions of deceased people. You have to say that their lives aren’t as important.

As fot the “A Time to Kill” question, let’s just say if I was on the jury it would be mighty hard to convict a father for killing the people who raped his daughter. I’m not saying what I’m feeling is right or wrong, it’s just my opinion.
 
Rascalking said:
Murdering someone like a Hitler/Mao/Kim Jon Ill is not only moral, it’s immoral to not do so if you have the chance.

If you think it’s immoral, then you have to answer for millions, and millions of deceased people. You have to say that their lives aren’t as important.

As fot the “A Time to Kill” question, let’s just say if I was on the jury it would be mighty hard to convict a father for killing the people who raped his daughter. I’m not saying what I’m feeling is right or wrong, it’s just my opinion.
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Thanks dude, I feel the same way.
 
illmatic said:
My personal slant on it is that if you don’t need to kill then don’t. For example, if you are stopping a rape, it would be right to keep the head enough to not kill the person while stopping it. Use appropriate force etc. In the case that you must kill to protect the person being attacked, I imagine that it may be right to do it - it is a big sacrifice that you will have to live with and be held accountable for… but perhaps it would be the right thing to do.
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This is the principle of self-defense–you can use proportionate force, ie, the amount of force necessary to stop the attack, but you cannot *intend *his death; if his death occurs as the result of the defense, that is supposed to be a side effect rather than intention of the proportionate act taken to stop the attack.

For example, you see someone attacking someone, so you pick up a 2x4 and whack the attacker to stop the attack. If his death occurs as a result, that is a side effect, not the intention.Or if the attacker keeps raising his gun to shoot, then you might have to keep beating him and he might die as the result of that.

But if you hit him and he moves away or is unconscious and is unable to continue the attack and you continue to beat him til he’s dead, then you have intended his death and committed what is *objectively *a mortal sin, but subjectively may not be, as it may be mitigated by the surrounding factors.
 
SnakeMauler said:
If someone were to intervene and kill Turks who were torturing and murdering innocent Armenians and doing horrible things, would this be a mortal sin? Similiarly, would it be a sin to kill Nazi’s who were running concentration camps? I can’t help but wish, when looking at these horrible pictures, watching videos, and listening to eyewitness accounts that I could go back in time and stop these things. What do you guys think?

Also, if I walked in on someone raping a close one to me, how bad of a sin would it be if I killed them for the purpose of stopping the crime? Or would it be better just to inflict extreme blunt trauma enough to stop them and put them on trial?

Basically, is it ever possible that killing to DIRECTLY stop a horrendous crime from taking place is really really bad?

…

-Snakemauler
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This type of activity would fall under the just war theory as applied to war or to civil insurrection.
 
I appreciate the debate but the danger in your question is people who apply the same logic at the abortion clinic and commit violence, even murder of abortion workers in the name of justice. This is not acceptable.
 
Rascalking said:
Murdering someone like a Hitler/Mao/Kim Jon Ill is not only moral, it’s immoral to not do so if you have the chance.

If you think it’s immoral, then you have to answer for millions, and millions of deceased people. You have to say that their lives aren’t as important.

As fot the “A Time to Kill” question, let’s just say if I was on the jury it would be mighty hard to convict a father for killing the people who raped his daughter. I’m not saying what I’m feeling is right or wrong, it’s just my opinion.
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So would you support the man who killed George Tiller? Tiller the Killer proudly claimed he had been responsible for at least 60,000 abortions. Maybe not millions, but a cold-hearted butcher nonetheless. I have a hard time scraping up any condemnation for the man who took him out. I even pray about this, because I know we aren’t supposed to condone murder, but… I am not being flip here. To me this seems like a justified crime.
 
Last time I checked ‘thou shalt not kill’ had a proviso for self-defence and defence of country (which, given that the Nazis and Russians under Stalin were aggressors in war as well as genocidal, makes it OK) and permitted the reasonable use of force to prevent a crime etc.

So the first question is - would killing particular people be guaranteed to save lives? In the case of the Nazis, I seriously doubt it unless you did a whole lot of killing - ie almost as much as individual Nazis themselves. Their camps were too well-staffed and too efficiently run for that.
 
Just a thought: when is it OK for me to rob a bank and to sleep with my best friend’s husband? Let us not fall into the temptation of rationalizing evil by anticipating how much evil would be “permitted” in such or such bizarre situation. Let us keep our thoughts pure.
Peace be with you all.
 
TheRealJuliane said:
So would you support the man who killed George Tiller? Tiller the Killer proudly claimed he had been responsible for at least 60,000 abortions. Maybe not millions, but a cold-hearted butcher nonetheless. I have a hard time scraping up any condemnation for the man who took him out. I even pray about this, because I know we aren’t supposed to condone murder, but… I am not being flip here. To me this seems like a justified crime.
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Oh, I know your not being flip. It’s a tough thing to discuss, in particular because I do firmly support killing a Stalin or a Hitler, and I think those who wouldn’t are hiding behind jargon.

It’s tough for me as well, at least I can admit that. What I’ll say is that Tiller was human garbage, but no one is as bad as Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Kim Jon Ill…
 
Well, after a lot of prayer about it, and thought, I still don’t know. Right after it happened, I wanted to cheer that Tiller the Killer would kill no more babies.

But then I think sometimes, maybe God was still working on him. God had a lot of evil to overcome, but God can do anything so…

I actually considered sending a contribution to the killer’s legal defense fund. But then, well, it just didn’t seem right to support a murderer, even if his victim was like Stalin to the babies he killed.
 
beafedor said:
I appreciate the debate but the danger in your question is people who apply the same logic at the abortion clinic and commit violence, even murder of abortion workers in the name of justice. This is not acceptable.
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Not necessarily. Anyone with a basic sense of morality should know that abortion is equivalent to murder. An abortion happens in the United States every 20 seconds. That’s genocide, plain and simple. So why should those who support abortion be treated with more sympathy than Nazis? If anything, abortion is worse than the Holocaust, since abortion is the killing of babies who haven’t even committed one sin and who haven’t had the chance to see the sun, while those who were killed in the Holocaust weren’t completely innocent.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not trying to downplay the abominable acts that Hitler and the Nazis committed; I’m trying to portray abortion for what it really is - a sick, sadistic, selfish, morally reprehensible act of genocide that is actually legal. That’s disgusting. I’m not saying we should kill abortionists, any more than I am saying we should give murderers the death penalty (which, if anything, is actually against justice, since it doesn’t force the murderer to make amends for his/her crime; it’s just counterproductive revenge). The toughest crime to stop is one that people actually delude themselves into thinking is moral. Abortion is such a crime, and we cannot stop it with hate, but with love, and the truth.

So, basically, I agree that violence won’t solve this problem, but I find it rather hypocritical that people would gladly kill Nazis but have qualms about killing abortionists.
 
It is threads like this one that kept me away from this site for awhile. I came back on line tonight feelings sad and seeking prayers for myself and then saw the pain and suffering of others, and chose to pray for them instead. There is no justification in my mind for killing human beings – even Hitler or Mao. They definitely should be prosecuted for their crimes against humanity but killing them is not justifiied. No, killing abortion doctors or others we disagree with is not moral or legal either. Have we learned nothing in world history if we have not learned that killing in the name of God and Christ is immoral?
 
Pamm said:
It is threads like this one that kept me away from this site for awhile. I came back on line tonight feelings sad and seeking prayers for myself and then saw the pain and suffering of others, and chose to pray for them instead. There is no justification in my mind for killing human beings – even Hitler or Mao. They definitely should be prosecuted for their crimes against humanity but killing them is not justifiied. No, killing abortion doctors or others we disagree with is not moral or legal either. Have we learned nothing in world history if we have not learned that killing in the name of God and Christ is immoral?
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Amen!
 
Don’t worry about me, I’m not going to kill anyone. I am just wrestling with what is probably one of my baser thoughts or instincts - I guess it would be revenge. But I didn’t cry to hear that Tiller the Baby Killer was dead.

I don’t think it’s right to do, but am I sad that someone did it? Not at this point. Tiller could have repented at any point along the way but he CELEBRATED his evil. He even sold funerals for the aborted babies!! HOW SICK AND EVIL IS THAT???
 
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