How bare is your Catholicism?

[St_Redemption]

I can sympathize with your position Bella. A lot of these things have made me think a lot as well. I have no problems with honoring Mary or even the other Saints but sometimes to me all of the devotion seems to be a bit excessive at times, although I would never individually criticize the way that certain Catholics choose to practice, sometimes I worry that they may be focusing to much on all of these bells and whistles. Unlike you,I like the statues of Mary, but sometimes it seems to me that people might not be spending enough time on Jesus.

It also bothers me that people sometimes capitalize the “H” when referring to Mary in the pronoun “Her”. The capitalization of the first letter in a pronoun is something that I only do when referring to either The Father, The Son, or The Holy Spirit.

Sometimes it seems like to many miscellaneous bells and whistles to me. I constantly wonder whether or not I’m doing everything right. It can be confusing. And I just learned,as somebody new to Catholicism, that technically I am not supposed to be partaking in the Eucharist, which I have been doing. That bit of news was rather disheartening. And I still do not understand it but rest easy in what Jesus once said, “my yolk is easy, and My burden is light.”. Sometimes it seems to me that The Church is making the burden rather heavy. Do not think that I am at all against a Holy and God dedicated life, but doesn’t that just come down to where your heart lies and you treat others and respect God? I have to be honest, I found the suggestion that I was somehow sinning by partaking in theEucharist to be a little offensive,and I am one who typically does notstruggle to own up to sin?

if anybody cares to shed light on this I’d be all ears, not to high jack the op’s thread

Have a Blessed weekend!

 

[Vico]

…

if anybody cares to shed light on this I’d be all ears, not to high jack the op’s thread

Have a Blessed weekend!

The bare necessities in Catholicism are to live a Christlike life which means to remain in a holy state, do penance (fasting, prayer, alms-giving, good works), support the Church, give assent to the teachings of the Church, all of which is giving your witness of the faith.

The Church is concerned with: personal spiritual state, reverence toward the Holy Communion, and public scandal. Since the Church was given the capatility loosen and bind sins, it may say, and does say, what is needed for worthy reception of Holy Communion by a Catholic, and that is to have received absolution through the Church prior to reception if any mortal sin has occurred, and to avoid any scandal that may occur through reception. Of course you must determine when a mortal sin has occurred.

Matthew 18:18 (RSVCE) Truly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Catholics are not to be allowed to receive Holy Communion if they are under the penalty of excommunication or interdict, or obstinately persist in manifest grave sin, or would scandalize (give the appearance of unworthy reception) through reception of Holy Communion.

Scandal, for example, can occur with divorced (or not) Catholics living in a civil marriage (which is not Holy Matrimony), yet not able to separate, even though avoiding any conjugal relations or sexual sin.

 

[englishredrose]

Would anyone else know if that Catholic had been excommunicated?

I mean is it made public knowledge or is it on trust of the individual because that Catholic could decide to go elsewhere (Catholic) and continue receiving regardless…

I think it a very harsh penalty to excommunicate and probably doesn’t really happen. After all, God - Jesus teaches about forgiveness doesn’t he and there is nothing in the Bible where He says if a Catholic fails to do xyz then he must be excommunicated… Is it just a myth or does anyone genuinely know anyone who has been. I don’t mean their friends best friends mother or something know them personally and do they actually still go to church or do they stop going in that mistrust of the church.

I can’t imagine being totally excommunicated though it is a theory being branded about amongst those who like talking about it but does it really and truelly happen because it be like the Church playing God over God? When I try to think about it in Catholic terms as much as I can being Anglican which I will admitt… But yes, it is a term used in Anglican circles too but full on ex commmunication - does it really happen, honestly. Don’t just say yes because it in the whatever it called. But definate examples naturally not giving away identities but… AM shocked if it really happens ‘today’

 

[YoungTradCath]

If anyone likes bare Catholicism, I would like to recommend vocations to the Carthusians.

 

[ajecphotos]

I try to pray the rosary every day. When i do, i am praying ‘through’ our blessed mother ‘to’ god. Also, nothing wrong with statues and pics etc. I dont pray to them but they remind me of who i am praying to.

 

[Vico]

Would anyone else know if that Catholic had been excommunicated?

I mean is it made public knowledge or is it on trust of the individual because that Catholic could decide to go elsewhere (Catholic) and continue receiving regardless…

I think it a very harsh penalty to excommunicate and probably doesn’t really happen. After all, God - Jesus teaches about forgiveness doesn’t he and there is nothing in the Bible where He says if a Catholic fails to do xyz then he must be excommunicated… Is it just a myth or does anyone genuinely know anyone who has been. I don’t mean their friends best friends mother or something know them personally and do they actually still go to church or do they stop going in that mistrust of the church.

I can’t imagine being totally excommunicated though it is a theory being branded about amongst those who like talking about it but does it really and truelly happen because it be like the Church playing God over God? When I try to think about it in Catholic terms as much as I can being Anglican which I will admitt… But yes, it is a term used in Anglican circles too but full on ex commmunication - does it really happen, honestly. Don’t just say yes because it in the whatever it called. But definate examples naturally not giving away identities but… AM shocked if it really happens ‘today’

It really happens. In particular, it has happens with those that confess abortion, that the bishop must be contacted first, prior to absolution being given. My priest has mentioned how heavy this sin has been on those that have confessed it to him. The Bishop may authorize a priest to specifically deal with this absolution on his behalf.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church has (for the Latin Church):**2272 **Formal cooperation in an abortion constitutes a grave offense. The Church attaches the canonical penalty of excommunication to this crime against human life. “A person who procures a completed abortion incurs excommunication latae sententiae,” 77 “by the very commission of the offense,” 78 and subject to the conditions provided by Canon Law. 79 The Church does not thereby intend to restrict the scope of mercy. Rather, she makes clear the gravity of the crime committed, the irreparable harm done to the innocent who is put to death, as well as to the parents and the whole of society.

**1463 **Certain particularly grave sins incur excommunication, the most severe ecclesiastical penalty, which impedes the reception of the sacraments and the exercise of certain ecclesiastical acts, and for which absolution consequently cannot be granted, according to canon law, except by the Pope, the bishop of the place or priests authorized by them. In danger of death any priest, even if deprived of faculties for hearing confessions, can absolve from every sin and excommunication.

 

[garysibio]

I’ve never liked statues. I’ve never liked prayer cards and the pictures on them. I’ve never liked incense and all that stuff. I’ve never liked ritual and pomp and ceremony. I’ve never liked the Rosary or all the devotions to Mary. I’ve never liked all the prayers and devotions to the Saints. I’ve never liked those big ornate churches with the very fancy artwork and architecture. I was brought to see the Vatican when I was little and I thought it was one of the least holy places I’ve ever been to in my life. There was no feeling of any kind of holiness there for me. I’m wondering if I’m alone in not liking all this stuff. When I occasionally pray, I address God directly. Even though I’ve drifted away from the faith, I still say the occasional prayer and I still let out an instinctive ‘‘Thanks be to God’’ every now and then, when I hear about something that went well, or if something has gone well for me. When I did Jury service, I had to option to make what they called an affirmation, but I chose instead to swear the oath on the new testament.
I’ve been advised to pray the Rosary to get my faith back. I can’t do that. I don’t like praying the Rosary. I don’t like, and have never liked, all the devotions to Mary I’ve been exposed to and forced to take part in as a young girl. Our house had, in fact still has, one picture of the Sacred Heart in the living room, and a statue or picture of Mary in every other room in the house. Even as a child I thought that was unbalanced. If God is the focus of our life and salvation, then that’s where we should be focused, on God, not Mary and not the Saints.
When I prayed all these prayers as a child, I remember feeling frustrated at times, because my prayers were to Mary and the Saints, and as we prayed together as a family twice a day, it used to drive me nuts because I didn’t want to be saying all these prayers, I wanted to be talking to God. Directly.
Am I the only one? Every Catholic I know and talk to, and there’s many starting with and extending from my own family, have such devotion to Mary and various Saints and it’s such a central and important part of their faith and prayer life. My mother and sisters go to their womens sodality meetings and third order meetings and are involved in so many things about Mary in the parish I can’t even keep track anymore.
I was just thinking, were I to ever find my faith again, it would be a very simple, bare faith. I’d go to mass, and pray to God directly. That’d be about the height of it. Why is there, and does there have to be, so much of all this stuff about Mary and the Saints? And am I the only one who just doesn’t have any interest in all these things, and would just want a simple, simple faith and conversation directly with God?
I know how important these things are for people, and I’m not disputing that, or that all these devotions to Mary and the Saints have a role to play. I’m wondering if there’s something wrong with me for not wanting, or being interested in, these prayers and devotions, even from a very young age?

You’re not alone. May I suggest you read The Little Flowers of St. Francis of Assisi.

 

[mcrts]

I’ve never liked statues. I’ve never liked prayer cards and the pictures on them. I’ve never liked incense and all that stuff. I’ve never liked ritual and pomp and ceremony. I’ve never liked the Rosary or all the devotions to Mary. I’ve never liked all the prayers and devotions to the Saints. I’ve never liked those big ornate churches with the very fancy artwork and architecture. I was brought to see the Vatican when I was little and I thought it was one of the least holy places I’ve ever been to in my life. There was no feeling of any kind of holiness there for me. I’m wondering if I’m alone in not liking all this stuff. When I occasionally pray, I address God directly. Even though I’ve drifted away from the faith, I still say the occasional prayer and I still let out an instinctive ‘‘Thanks be to God’’ every now and then, when I hear about something that went well, or if something has gone well for me. When I did Jury service, I had to option to make what they called an affirmation, but I chose instead to swear the oath on the new testament.
I’ve been advised to pray the Rosary to get my faith back. I can’t do that. I don’t like praying the Rosary. I don’t like, and have never liked, all the devotions to Mary I’ve been exposed to and forced to take part in as a young girl. Our house had, in fact still has, one picture of the Sacred Heart in the living room, and a statue or picture of Mary in every other room in the house. Even as a child I thought that was unbalanced. If God is the focus of our life and salvation, then that’s where we should be focused, on God, not Mary and not the Saints.
When I prayed all these prayers as a child, I remember feeling frustrated at times, because my prayers were to Mary and the Saints, and as we prayed together as a family twice a day, it used to drive me nuts because I didn’t want to be saying all these prayers, I wanted to be talking to God. Directly.
Am I the only one? Every Catholic I know and talk to, and there’s many starting with and extending from my own family, have such devotion to Mary and various Saints and it’s such a central and important part of their faith and prayer life. My mother and sisters go to their womens sodality meetings and third order meetings and are involved in so many things about Mary in the parish I can’t even keep track anymore.
I was just thinking, were I to ever find my faith again, it would be a very simple, bare faith. I’d go to mass, and pray to God directly. That’d be about the height of it. Why is there, and does there have to be, so much of all this stuff about Mary and the Saints? And am I the only one who just doesn’t have any interest in all these things, and would just want a simple, simple faith and conversation directly with God?
I know how important these things are for people, and I’m not disputing that, or that all these devotions to Mary and the Saints have a role to play. I’m wondering if there’s something wrong with me for not wanting, or being interested in, these prayers and devotions, even from a very young age?

I think yours is a classic example of the struggles of a cradle catholic. When I was young I didn’t understand why we did all those rituals and stuff. I found mass and rosary boring. But through the grace of God and the prayers of Mary, as I got older I understand why.

I know it seems weird- why pray to Mary and the saints when we can go direct to God. But one of the beliefs of Catholicsm is that we are all one family. You don’t HAVE to pray to them but it is indeed helpful.

I think you are overwhelmed and honestly not properly taught the rosary. The rosary is not Mary worship but its actually the life of Jesus. Only very few of the mysteries are truly about Mary. I know they repeat Hail Mary over and over but you are supposed to think and reflect on JESUS.

Some Catholics do indeed worship Mary and that’s very sad because she is not a goddess. She wants us to worship God only. If you find difficulties in separating worship and prayer perhaps talk to your pastor or any strong catholic who are properly schooled in their faith. You can reach out to me too… Im only a PM away.

God bless, MC

 

[Vico]

mcrts,

Worship given to the angels and saints is an accepted Catholic practice and is done in the various Catholic liturgies. It is called veneration.

 

[Bella92]

I hope the OP can see that there are other Catholics who share her feelings about clutter.

My suggestion is that the OP seek out other real-life Catholics who share her “bare bones” approach and stick with them!

And find a Catholic parish that has a simple architecture. Ours does–it’s all bricks. Many of the traditionalists hate it (one lady told me it makes her cry because it’s so ugly). But those of us who like simplicity like it a lot.

One more suggestion–I kind of agree with George Stegmeir that the OP needs to do some deeper studying about the Catholic Church. Yes, much of the decor is just that–decor, and is not necessary (although many enjoy it). But the Sacrament of Reconciliation is a Sacrament, and IS necessary, and a Catholic really can’t just eliminate this from their lives like they can eliminate statues with rolling eyes.

A good book that might help the OP is Scott Hahn’s Lord Have Mercy: The Healing Power of Confession. Dr. Hahn is a former Protestant (Presbyterian minister, and the Calvinists are known for austerity!), and he has a very readable perspective, as well as a lot of historical and theological information about the Sacrament of Reconciliation.

I think that the OP would enjoy reading a lot of the newer books written by Protestant converts to Catholicism, and would learn a lot about Catholicism. I think a lot of the more ancient Catholic works would probably have the same effect on the OP as some of the ornate church buildings–the ancient and flowery language would be a turn-off.

I’m a Protestant convert, BTW. And I would like to say that I would love to meet the OP and others like them. During my early adult years, I was caught up in the “Simple Lifestyle” movement that swept across Evangelical Protestantism. I read Ron Sider’s Rich Christians in An Age of Hunger and was hooked on the idea of eliminating and simplifying. (The OP might enjoy this book, even though it was written by a Protestant, one who is still active in social gospel, BTW). I still use my Mennonite cookbook–the Mennonites wrote several excellent books back then on simple lifestyle.

So I identify with the OP about “bare Christianity.” I don’t mind the hoopla and statues and incense, but I have a real dislike of the ancient music and I really don’t care for Latin or any language other than my own. Many Catholics argue that we need to “return to all things Catholic,” and they’re talking about all the decorations, architecture, Latin, etc. I really can’t get excited about this, because to me, all these things are extras. I think if we returned to “true Catholicism,” we would be returning to a very, very simple religion.

I would be interested in whether the OP considers Gregorian chant “bare” enough. It’s about the barest music in existence–just a voice. (Just to be upfront here–I don’t like GC, although I recognize its historical significance to the Church and to music literature.)

This is an interesting topic, and I think the OP could conceivably work through all this and someday write a really good best-selling book called Bare Catholicism. I think a lot of people would find this very, very appealing. But again, we have to be careful that in our efforts to eliminate the unnecessary that we don’t eliminate the necessary. Also, we have to recognize and validate that many Catholics DO find all the “stuff” edifying and helpful to their faith.

I think I found the St. Senara’s in Cornwall picture the most appealing. It’s also good to hear others feel the same way, and I’m not a freak for not liking all that ornate stuff and clutter. I don’t think I’ll be writing any book on Catholicism anytime soon because I’m fallen away for a reason. I just don’t think a lot of things the church says is right, or I don’t know, so I can’t say it’s right because I don’t know whether it is or not. And I’m fairly sure the church wouldn’t agree with my behaviour and my way of earing a living, but I have no intention of stopping because I don’t see I’m doing anything wrong. So all in all me becoming the next best selling Catholic author isn’t really likely. I like the idea of going to benediction too. That might be something I could do, because it’s nice and quiet in the Church when that’s happening.
Yeah I forgot to say, sometimes I’m abroad with work so it might be a while before I come back and reply to people who’ve replied to me.

 

[Bella92]

I know they repeat Hail Mary over and over but you are supposed to think and reflect on JESUS.

If I’m honest I’ve always found that bit really hard when I was growing up. It just did my head in the constant repetition.