How Can A Homosexual Relate Positively To Sexuality?

[Treese]

There are many organizations that offer support to persons who struggle against same-sex attraction. There are programs that provide them psychological counselling to either assist them to live chaste lives, or to help re-orient their sexuality. The Church has the Apostolate of COURAGE, where persons with same-sex attraction can learn to lead chaste and spiritually disciplined lives of prayer and frequent reception of the sacraments.

But… how does a person with same-sex attraction relate to sexuality-in-general in a Positive light if their are no role models on tv, in the news, or in their neighborhoods and Churches to model themselves and their behavior on?
Why are Chaste persons with same-sex attraction so in the closet?
Is there any current movement for them to become a more visible presence, so as to inspire others, and dispel the shame over something they did not cause?

 

[bingbang]

There are many organizations that offer support to persons who struggle against same-sex attraction. There are programs that provide them psychological counselling to either assist them to live chaste lives, or to help re-orient their sexuality. The Church has the Apostolate of COURAGE, where persons with same-sex attraction can learn to lead chaste and spiritually disciplined lives of prayer and frequent reception of the sacraments.

But… how does a person with same-sex attraction relate to sexuality-in-general in a Positive light if their are no role models on tv, in the news, or in their neighborhoods and Churches to model themselves and their behavior on?
Why are Chaste persons with same-sex attraction so in the closet?
Is there any current movement for them to become a more visible presence, so as to inspire others, and dispel the shame over something they did not cause?

They could model themselves after homosexual priests as there certainly are many priests that have same sex attraction. As for celibate homosexuals that are out of the closet…I don’t know of any because usually when someone comes to terms with being homosexual they go onto forming relationships.

IMO these programs that try to make gay people straight are extremely harmful. This is the same as trying to make a straight person gay. It just doesn’t work, and when it doesn’t, the people feel bad about still having attraction to the same sex. Homosexuality is barely talked about in the NT and is not even touched upon by Jesus in any of the gospels. I don’t think it is the big deal that many Catholics and Christians make it out to be.

 

[HauntedJame]

There are many organizations that offer support to persons who struggle against same-sex attraction. There are programs that provide them psychological counselling to either assist them to live chaste lives, or to help re-orient their sexuality. The Church has the Apostolate of COURAGE, where persons with same-sex attraction can learn to lead chaste and spiritually disciplined lives of prayer and frequent reception of the sacraments.

But… how does a person with same-sex attraction relate to sexuality-in-general in a Positive light if their are no role models on tv, in the news, or in their neighborhoods and Churches to model themselves and their behavior on?
Why are Chaste persons with same-sex attraction so in the closet?
Is there any current movement for them to become a more visible presence, so as to inspire others, and dispel the shame over something they did not cause?

Well, there is always the option of just being a good person. There are a lot of gay people out there, some great role models. In communities anyway. I had a music teacher who was gay, who really helped me when I was growing up.

And why should we be chaste? Love is love, and love between two men can be as beautiful and warm as love between a man and a woman. I suppose this issue is very close to me, as it is the reason why I stopped considering myself Catholic. I just can’t agree with the fact we automatically become sinners and pitied by everyone. It’s not easy being gay and I wouldn’t choose it; but it is what I am and I want to be happy. And I am. I am loved, I love, I have a good life, do what I can for others…it’s a nice life. And I don’t see it displeasing anyone.

Btw, why do everyone call it same sex attraction? Makes it sound like everyone is talking about pre-Victorian stuff…

 

[andyandely1997]

They could model themselves after homosexual priests as there certainly are many priests that have same sex attraction. As for celibate homosexuals that are out of the closet…I don’t know of any because usually when someone comes to terms with being homosexual they go onto forming relationships.

IMO these programs that try to make gay people straight are extremely harmful. This is the same as trying to make a straight person gay. It just doesn’t work, and when it doesn’t, the people feel bad about still having attraction to the same sex. Homosexuality is barely talked about in the NT and is not even touched upon by Jesus in any of the gospels. I don’t think it is the big deal that many Catholics and Christians make it out to be.

Jesus did talk about marriage being between one man and one woman. “Have ye not read, that he who made man from the beginning, Made them male and female? And he said: For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife, and they two shall be in one flesh. Therefore now they are not two, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let no man put asunder.” (Matthew 19:4-6)

 

[andyandely1997]

Well, there is always the option of just being a good person. There are a lot of gay people out there, some great role models. In communities anyway. I had a music teacher who was gay, who really helped me when I was growing up.

And why should we be chaste? Love is love, and love between two men can be as beautiful and warm as love between a man and a woman. I suppose this issue is very close to me, as it is the reason why I stopped considering myself Catholic. I just can’t agree with the fact we automatically become sinners and pitied by everyone. It’s not easy being gay and I wouldn’t choose it; but it is what I am and I want to be happy. And I am. I am loved, I love, I have a good life, do what I can for others…it’s a nice life. And I don’t see it displeasing anyone.

Btw, why do everyone call it same sex attraction? Makes it sound like everyone is talking about pre-Victorian stuff…

Why should anyone be chaste? The commandment of God against adultery. Gay or straight, all sex outside the covenant of marriage is a sin against God.

 

[HauntedJame]

Why should anyone be chaste? The commandment of God against adultery. Gay or straight, all sex outside the covenant of marriage is a sin against God.

Thent the Church better let homosexuals get married. Would solve that sin.

 

[bingbang]

Well, there is always the option of just being a good person. There are a lot of gay people out there, some great role models. In communities anyway. I had a music teacher who was gay, who really helped me when I was growing up.

And why should we be chaste? Love is love, and love between two men can be as beautiful and warm as love between a man and a woman. I suppose this issue is very close to me, as it is the reason why I stopped considering myself Catholic. I just can’t agree with the fact we automatically become sinners and pitied by everyone. It’s not easy being gay and I wouldn’t choose it; but it is what I am and I want to be happy. And I am. I am loved, I love, I have a good life, do what I can for others…it’s a nice life. And I don’t see it displeasing anyone.

Btw, why do everyone call it same sex attraction? Makes it sound like everyone is talking about pre-Victorian stuff…

Everyone calls it “same sex attraction” because it is like an affliction that you have to overcome, not something that you are. It is like if you have a propensity to be an alcoholic in a lot of Catholics’ minds.

 

[bingbang]

Jesus did talk about marriage being between one man and one woman. “Have ye not read, that he who made man from the beginning, Made them male and female? And he said: For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife, and they two shall be in one flesh. Therefore now they are not two, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let no man put asunder.” (Matthew 19:4-6)

lol, I love how you nicely leave out Matthew 19:3

3Some Pharisees came to him to test him. They asked, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any and every reason?”

And then in RESPONSE to this question he says:

• 4"Haven’t you read," he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’[a] 5and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’**? 6So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate.”
  **

He was asked SPECIFICALLY about a marriage between a man and his wife.*

 

[adstrinity]

lol, I love how you nicely leave out Matthew 19:3

3Some Pharisees came to him to test him. They asked, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any and every reason?”

And then in RESPONSE to this question he says:

4"Haven’t you read," he replied, "that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’[a] 5and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’? 6So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate."

He was asked SPECIFICALLY about a marriage between a man and his wife.

That’s the ONLY kind of marriage there is.

 

[HauntedJame]

Everyone calls it “same sex attraction” because it is like an affliction that you have to overcome, not something that you are. It is like if you have a propensity to be an alcoholic in a lot of Catholics’ minds.

But you can’t overcome homosexuality…you’re either gay, straight or bi…you’re just born like that!

 

[Deo_Volente]

Grace & Peace!

Everyone calls it “same sex attraction” because it is like an affliction that you have to overcome, not something that you are. It is like if you have a propensity to be an alcoholic in a lot of Catholics’ minds.

This language of affliction is precisely why I refuse to use the term SSA to refer to homosexuality.

The OP has a very good question, though–one I’ve asked before but have yet to see answered or engaged thoughtfully on these boards. If a heterosexual catholic chooses to be celibate or is called to the celibate life, there’s no sense that he or she need deny his or her sexuality in the process, or should look upon the desire they will feel for the opposite sex as an affliction. Similarly, is it possible for a Roman Catholic who is homosexual to observe the rule of abstinence, but celebrate their sexuality? Is it possible for a Roman Catholic homosexual to engage in a chaste romance / a proper platonic relationship as Socrates describes at the end of the Symposium? Could a Roman Catholic homosexual be in a relationship with another Roman Catholic homosexual and model their relationship after the example of Our Lady and St. Joseph (which, while chaste, I would like to believe was passionately and sweetly romantic!).

I understand that the catechism does not actually believe in homosexuality as a viable sexuality, so perhaps the answer is, in fact, “no.” But the catechism’s view of sexuality is looking more and more like a defense of geocentrism in the midst of the Copernican revolution–i.e., more and more untenable given our growing scientific understanding of human sexuality. And as that view of sexuality passes away, I think that one day we will be able to find ourselves actually having a conversation regarding the appropriate expression of homosexual desire within a Roman Catholic moral context. We may have to wait quite a while for the conversation, but I think it is inevitable.

At any rate…

Under the Mercy,
Mark

All is Grace and Mercy! Deo Gratias!

 

[bingbang]

That’s the ONLY kind of marriage there is.

According to you and the church though many people would disagree.

 

[HauntedJame]

According to you and the church though many people would disagree.

And I am one of those that disagree. I would love to get married to the man I love…it would solve the majority of my sins.

 

[adstrinity]

According to you and the church though many people would disagree.

And those people would be known as “Wrong”.

Homosexual “marriage” is a new concoction. Never in all of history has ANY society approving of homosexuality in part, ever condoned homosexual marriage formally.

To answer the OP, though, WHY define yourself through sexuality!!! Really! You (or anybody, regardless of sexual ID, Straight, Gay, Bi, Tri, Pan…) are so much more than that!!! It bothers me that this is made such a big deal of.

Second, I think it was this thread that asks about positive role models (it’s this thread, right?) and, if so, yeah, I can agree with that because there aren’t any celibate by choice homosexuals that get a lot of media attention. As a matter of fact, the ones that do get air time, MOSTLY FOR their sexual life-style, are the ones that are slutting it up and having lousy love-lifes. George Michael, Melissa Etheridge…the media is so bent on promoting the perverseness of homosexual acts, I think, in part, to have more news to tell.

Ellen DeGeneres & Portia DelRossi don’t make the news much anymore, I think Nathan Lane, Allan Cumming, and Sir Ian McKellen are all in long term relationships at this point…note the lack of them in the headlines.

I think Sir Elton John is an exception to this…but, whenever something does come up, something is made of his sexuality.

The media promotes anti-life propeganda, but, it’s not for the good of anybody.

Third, perhaps this is just from spending time at the wrong homosexual dating sites, but, they are all hostile to Catholicism and God. Even if they are not bashing/hating God, they are hating His order. They also advocate the use of marital aids in the bedroom…such inhibitors are…disrespectful to conjugation.

 

[adstrinity]

And I am one of those that disagree. I would love to get married to the man I love…it would solve the majority of my sins.

No Sir, it would not. I tell you with charity, it would only compound them.

 

[HauntedJame]

No Sir, it would not. I tell you with charity, it would only compound them.

Really? See, sex out of wedlock is one of the biggies sin-wise…if I was married, that wouldn’t be a problem. But since I am not celibate and very much in love, I have no other choice but to do these acts out of wedlock.

 

[adstrinity]

Really? See, sex out of wedlock is one of the biggies sin-wise…if I was married, that wouldn’t be a problem. But since I am not celibate and very much in love, I have no other choice but to do these acts out of wedlock.

NONSENSE YOU DON’T HAVE A CHOICE!!! You give homosexuals everywhere a bad name if you claim that!!! You do nothing but make it look like they are lustful perverts who should be looked down upon!!! Homosexuals are God’s children with intellect and free will, THEY ARE NOT VICTIMS, THEY ARE NOT SLAVES!! Claiming you do not have a choice means you are powerless and, therefore, second class, and therefore, not really human.

THERE IS ALWAYS A CHOICE!!! YOU ~ALWAYS~ HAVE A CHOICE!!!

 

[HauntedJame]

NONSENSE YOU DON’T HAVE A CHOICE!!! You give homosexuals everywhere a bad name if you claim that!!! You do nothing but make it look like they are lustful perverts who should be looked down upon!!! Homosexuals are God’s children with intellect and free will, THEY ARE NOT VICTIMS, THEY ARE NOT SLAVES!! Claiming you do not have a choice means you are powerless and, therefore, second class, and therefore, not really human.

THERE IS ALWAYS A CHOICE!!! YOU ~ALWAYS~ HAVE A CHOICE!!!

I am not celibate. I do not wish to be. I do not think I am meant to be. So yes, it doesn’t leave much choice if I can’t get married to the man I love. I am not a victim. But when the options are taken out, what do you have left? Should I live life without love, without the touch of love, the intimacy of making love, just because the Church says I can’t be married?

And there is no reason to shout at me. Seriously, you could have expressed all this without the shouting. And I am as human as you are. And I do not make it look like we are perverts; we are human beings in need of the same things that you are.

But say what you like. Do you really think I haven’t been called worse things, had worse things said to me and been physically hurt because of what I am? Well. Feel free to shout some more, I actually start finding it funny now that I have reread it.

 

[adstrinity]

I am not celibate. I do not wish to be.

Alright then. That’s one thing. You don’t WANT to be celebate. You don’t WANT to deny yourself.

I do not think I am meant to be.

Have you asked God? Have you prayed about it?

So yes, it doesn’t leave much choice if I can’t get married to the man I love. I am not a victim. But when the options are taken out, what do you have left?

Your options:

1. Do God’s will.
2. Do your will.

If you do your will, and, this is more than in just sexual terms, but, any sin, you have left God. If you do God’s will, you have left you.

Should I live life without love,

Without God, you are living a life without love. Love, true love, can only come from God. I hope your mate is a good man, all things considered, and truly loves you, in the highest way, and isn’t just using you. And, I truly wish the same of you for him…and all your loved ones.

without the touch of love,

Something tells me you mean this sensually.

the intimacy of making love, just because the Church says I can’t be married?

And, again, it’s all down to you…

Let me mention, that my favourite book of the Bible is the Book of Tobit. For three days and three nights, before Tobit took his wife as his wife, they prayed, praising God. …Can you and your partner be celebate in prayer for three days praising God and asking him to bless your companionship?

And there is no reason to shout at me. Seriously, you could have expressed all this without the shouting.

Yes.

And I am as human as you are. And I do not make it look like we are perverts; we are human beings in need of the same things that you are.

I stand by what I said about how you phrased things.

I do believe that that is true.

But say what you like.

Ta muchly.

Do you really think I haven’t been called worse things,

You probably have been called worse things, because I didn’t call you anything.

had worse things said to me and been physically hurt because of what I am?

I am sorry if you have been physically hurt because of others. But, again, note the victim mentality in this entire previous sentence.

Well. Feel free to shout some more, I actually start finding it funny now that I have reread it.

I am glad you have found a coping mechanism, as long as you do not let it make you become defensive.

Let me ask you, are you religious at all? You cannot…mmmm…rationally/logically go along with what the Catholic Church teaches at this point; do you believe in God at all? Agnostic or anything like that?

 

[HauntedJame]

Alright then. That’s one thing. You don’t WANT to be celebate. You don’t WANT to deny yourself.

Have you asked God? Have you prayed about it?

Your options:

1. Do God’s will.
2. Do your will.

If you do your will, and, this is more than in just sexual terms, but, any sin, you have left God. If you do God’s will, you have left you.

Without God, you are living a life without love. Love, true love, can only come from God. I hope your mate is a good man, all things considered, and truly loves you, in the highest way, and isn’t just using you. And, I truly wish the same of you for him…and all your loved ones.

Something tells me you mean this sensually.

And, again, it’s all down to you…

Let me mention, that my favourite book of the Bible is the Book of Tobit. For three days and three nights, before Tobit took his wife as his wife, they prayed, praising God. …Can you and your partner be celebate in prayer for three days praising God and asking him to bless your companionship?

Yes.

I stand by what I said about how you phrased things.

I do believe that that is true.

Ta muchly.

You probably have been called worse things, because I didn’t call you anything.

I am sorry if you have been physically hurt because of others. But, again, note the victim mentality in this entire previous sentence.

I am glad you have found a coping mechanism, as long as you do not let it make you become defensive.

Let me ask you, are you religious at all? You cannot…mmmm…rationally/logically go along with what the Catholic Church teaches at this point; do you believe in God at all? Agnostic or anything like that?

Right, I am going to quickly respond to this. I prayed for years. For guidance, for forgiveness, for everything, believing myself condemned for what I felt. I felt shut out from the Church and I felt as if those around me were shutting me away from my faith. The only ones that supported me were my parents and my siblings, who knew I was gay and loved me regardless. How it should be.

Did I make it sound as if I was having sex constantly? I’m sorry, that wasn’t my intention. I don’t have the stamina of a teenager anymore…three days of doing without is a walk in the park most times. And my partner prays every day and we do often pray together.

I believe in God. I believe that God loves me. I do not believe that by being intimate with the person I love, that I am turning away from God. And perhaps you didn’t call me anything but the meaning was there. Perhaps I have a victim mentality. It comes out when I get upset. It is one of my many faults as a human being.

And I am religious, although what religion I belong to I have no idea. I was Catholic. I have been Lutheran. I am currently exploring, trying to find out where I ultimately belong. Looking at your conversation, most likely not in the Catholic Church.