How can a Protestant affirm the Athanasian creed?

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The issue is that faith alone isn’t sufficient. Having to clarify the difference between non-saving faith and saving faith (faith+works done in faith) just seems rather pointless, especially when the statement sola fide has been completely oversimplified beyond anything Luther ever intended by many (though not all) denominations, and since the Catholic Church has been consistent in condemning Pelagianism. And if anyone wants to say that non-saving faith isn’t “faith,” I suggest taking that argument up with James. Sola fide, when not properly understood, has led to so many heresies precisely to it’s lack of clarity on the role of works.
Other than the first sentence, I agree with what you say here. The sola in sola fide is not an exclusion of the necessity of works. It is recognizing that justification is accessed by only faith, but faith cannot in any way be alone. Luther’s explanation of that in the quote I supplied explains it well.

Jon
 
=Duane1966;13768602]Both are irrelevant without the other. Works are not evidence of faith, as works can be done by someone with no faith.
Here I might disagree to a point. The works of the unregenerate are of no value before God. They may be of some value before man, and in civil matters, to be sure.
But, in conjunction with faith, works are what make faith alive.
I agree.
So we are justified by both, as James and Paul say. James says Abraham was justified by works in James 2.
He also recognizes that Abraham already had faith. As you say above, the works make the faith alive, but they are done under faith, and importantly, by grace.
By process of elimination, we can be confident that Paul does include works of charity in determining our justification.
This process of elimination would have to eliminate the countless times Paul tells us that it is grace, through faith that justifies.
The fact that Paul specifically says that works of the law do not justify, it then clearly follows that works of charity do justify.
Lest anyone can boast.
Otherwise, why just single out works of the law? He could have easily said all works, be they charitable, or of the law, do not justify. But he didn’t.
He often talks about works, without talking about the law.
Romans 5, Romans 1, as examples. But he only mentions good works as a result of faith, as in Galatians 5:6…

I would add this. James is obviously talking to people who believed they were justified by faith alone. That is why he is so clear to tell them that it is faith and works that justify. And that either one, without the other, is useless.
No. He was speaking to people who thought that works of charity were not necessary. That isn’t sola fide. As Luther says in the quote above, thinking that since works do not justify we need not do works is to despise grace. And he is right. Christ commands that we do good works. Why? For our own justification? No. We do good works for our fellow man.
Christ’s great command in Matthew 22:
** “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?” 37And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. 38This is the great and first commandment. 39And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. 40On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets.”**
He starts with love for God. He follows by saying we are to love our neighbors. Works are indeed required, but they follow faith.
In James 2, from the start, speaks from the prerequisite of faith. Works follow faith. Abraham’s works followed faith.

Finally, failure to do the good works He has placed for us to do is sin. Repeated, unrepented sin leads to loss of faith. This is why it is possible to lose justification.

Jon
 
“So Saul died for his breach of faith. He broke faith with the LORD in that he did not keep the command of the LORD, and also consulted a medium, seeking guidance.”
1 Chronicals 10:13

“Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?”
  • Jesus
To me it is clear that by sinning, we break faith with Jesus by our disobedience. And yes, we are called to be obedient and love Him with our whole heart. By disobedience, we break faith and do not walk by faith, isn’t that right? Once saved always saved gives a false sense of assurance in my honest opinion.
 
“So Saul died for his breach of faith. He broke faith with the LORD in that he did not keep the command of the LORD, and also consulted a medium, seeking guidance.”
1 Chronicals 10:13

“Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?”
  • Jesus
To me it is clear that by sinning, we break faith with Jesus by our disobedience. And yes, we are called to be obedient and love Him with our whole heart. By disobedience, we break faith and do not walk by faith, isn’t that right? Once saved always saved gives a false sense of assurance in my honest opinion.
Amen. I like the phrase, “break faith”. 👍

Jon
 
It nullifies sola Fide for precisely that reason; the premise of sola Fide is that the only criteria God justifies by (declaring someone to be righteous) is by faith, without works.
what is your understanding of these statements from the Vatican website?

vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/chrstuni/lutheran-fed-docs/rc_pc_chrstuni_doc_2013_dal-conflitto-alla-comunione_en.html
"128.** Since faith is understood not only as affirmative knowledge, but also as the trust of the heart that bases itself on the Word of God,** it can further be said jointly: “Justification takes place ‘by grace alone’ (JD nos 15 and 16), by faith alone; the person is justified ‘apart from works’ (Rom 3:28, cf. JD no. 25)” (JDDJ, Annex 2C).(44) "

vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/chrstuni/documents/rc_pc_chrstuni_doc_31101999_cath-luth-joint-declaration_en.html
JOINT DECLARATION ON THE DOCTRINE OF JUSTIFICATION
by the Lutheran World Federation
and the Catholic Church

“25.We confess together that sinners are justified by faith in the saving action of God in Christ. By the action of the Holy Spirit in baptism, they are granted the gift of salvation, which lays the basis for the whole Christian life. They place their trust in God’s gracious promise by justifying faith, which includes hope in God and love for him. Such a faith is active in love and thus the Christian cannot and should not remain without works.**
But whatever in the justified precedes or follows the free gift of faith is neither the basis of justification nor merits it. **”​

read that again:

** But whatever** in the justified
** precedes
or
follows** the free gift of faith
** is neither the basis of justification nor merits it.**
 
what is your understanding of these statements from the Vatican website?

vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/chrstuni/lutheran-fed-docs/rc_pc_chrstuni_doc_2013_dal-conflitto-alla-comunione_en.html
"128.** Since faith is understood not only as affirmative knowledge, but also as the trust of the heart that bases itself on the Word of God,** it can further be said jointly: “Justification takes place ‘by grace alone’ (JD nos 15 and 16), by faith alone; the person is justified ‘apart from works’ (Rom 3:28, cf. JD no. 25)” (JDDJ, Annex 2C).(44) "

vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/chrstuni/documents/rc_pc_chrstuni_doc_31101999_cath-luth-joint-declaration_en.html
JOINT DECLARATION
ON THE DOCTRINE OF JUSTIFICATION

by the Lutheran World Federation
and the Catholic Church

“25.We confess together that sinners are justified by faith in the saving action of God in Christ. By the action of the Holy Spirit in baptism, they are granted the gift of salvation, which lays the basis for the whole Christian life. They place their trust in God’s gracious promise by justifying faith, which includes hope in God and love for him. Such a faith is active in love and thus the Christian cannot and should not remain without works.**
But whatever in the justified precedes or follows the free gift of faith is neither the basis of justification nor merits it. **”​

read that again:

** But whatever** in the justified
** precedes
or
follows** the free gift of faith
** is neither the basis of justification nor merits it.**
Since you don’t list a faith tradition, I’m curious as to what you think of the Baptism part

Jon
 
Since you don’t list a faith tradition, I’m curious as to what you think of the Baptism part

Jon
“We confess together that sinners are justified by faith in the saving action of God in Christ. By the action of the Holy Spirit in baptism, they are granted the gift of salvation”

It is my understanding that when someone is " justified by faith in the saving action of God in Christ." they are saved from the wrath of God

It is my understanding of Catholic theology that people can reject " gift of salvation" that was offered at baptism.
And when pressed; Catholics will concede it is possible to be a lifelong God rejecting atheist (never once believing in God); yet "born again " at baptism.

But as far as I see that is not in the Athanasian creed
 
“We confess together that sinners are justified by faith in the saving action of God in Christ. By the action of the Holy Spirit in baptism, they are granted the gift of salvation”

It is my understanding that when someone is " justified by faith in the saving action of God in Christ." they are saved from the wrath of God

It is my understanding of Catholic theology that people can reject " gift of salvation" that was offered at baptism.
And when pressed; Catholics will concede it is possible to be a lifelong God rejecting atheist (never once believing in God); yet "born again " at baptism.

But as far as I see that is not in the Athanasian creed
Thanks. I was kind of wondering what your view of baptism is

Jon
 
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