How can apostolic churches reject each other?

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The church in Rome succeeds from St Peter, Constantinople from St Andrew, Jerusalem from St James etc.

How did the churches of Jerusalem, Antioch, Constantinople etc. who all have apostolic authority from various apostles, break off union with Rome? How is it possible for apostolic churches to disagree with each other and break away from each other? How can they deny the supremacy of the Petrine church, having inherited apostolic authority themselves and knowing the truth?

Perhaps the apostles’ successors can disagree with each other, but to outright break out of union with each other and to reject each other’s teachings? How is that possible?
With due respect, your question is nonsensical. There is nothing intrinsic to the character of being an “apostolic church” that guarantees communion with other “apostolic churches.” Therefore, it is not an impossibility for them not to be in communion with each other. Therefore, there is no reason to be baffled about their not being in communion with each other.
 
With due respect, your question is nonsensical. There is nothing intrinsic to the character of being an “apostolic church” that guarantees communion with other “apostolic churches.” Therefore, it is not an impossibility for them not to be in communion with each other. Therefore, there is no reason to be baffled about their not being in communion with each other.
As Irenaeus would say, communion + all must agree with Rome, demonstrates faithfullness to apostolic tradition that came from Peter & Paul @ Rome, and faithful men down to his time… iow, Those who don’t live like this, are the unfaithful because they aren’t faithfull to apostolic tradition… Irenaeus was taught by Bp Polycarp who was a disciple of St John the apostle. Irenaeus began in the East and later became Bp of Lyons.
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=10437207&postcount=59

Today’s Melkite Bp John, says the same as Irenaeus Ref: Bk 3 Chapter 3 vs 2-3 (paraphrased)

when he wrote

When we declared our union with Rome – in consistency with Apostolic tradition interrupted somehow by historical circumstances – we accepted the Catholic faith in its entirety. We do recognize the authority of the Pope of Rome, including universal jurisdiction and infallibility for whatever concerns faith and morals. …[snip for space]

There is no ‘Eastern truth’ vs ‘Western truth’. Truth is one. It may be articulated according to various cultural expressions, but truth is super-cultural. Truth should not be restricted by “party line” positions. We should accept or reject ideas for their worth and not for an artificial attachment to a given “identity.” The Church teaches truth. If something is true, it would be absurd to say “Oh, we don’t believe that in the East.” This seems to be where we get short-circuited in ecumenical “dialogue.” All too frequently, such “dialogue” seems to presuppose a relativism where you speak “your truth” and I’ll speak “my truth” and we’ll just leave it at that. A sort of ecumenical schizophrenia. [snip]

for full context
melkite.org/eparchy/bishop-john/how-do-the-popes-encyclicals-and-teachings-impact-on-the-melkites
 
The church in Rome succeeds from St Peter, Constantinople from St Andrew, Jerusalem from St James etc.
I’ve heard there’s disagreement about Andrew’s involvement in Byzantium.
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SOS:
How did the churches of Jerusalem, Antioch, Constantinople etc. who all have apostolic authority from various apostles, break off union with Rome? How is it possible for apostolic churches to disagree with each other and break away from each other? How can they deny the supremacy of the Petrine church, having inherited apostolic authority themselves and knowing the truth?

Perhaps the apostles’ successors can disagree with each other, but to outright break out of union with each other and to reject each other’s teachings? How is that possible?
According to Irenaeus, “all not agreeing with Rome”, and disunity, is the fault of the unfaithful who don’t keep the apostolic tradition

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=10442324&postcount=61
 
Thanks for all the answers everyone. This has been a very interesting topic to read and it has helped greatly in settling my doubts on this area.
 
No. 🙂

None of us believes in sola scriptura. So, why is it that Catholic participants in discussions about the papacy so often turn into Protestants on this issue, when they would so readily cite the Early Church Fathers on, for instance, the sacraments? :confused:
Why do we always get blamed for everything? :banghead: 😃

Jon
 
Why do we always get blamed for everything? :banghead: 😃
Hahaha.

Well… because through his actions Luther opened the floodgates to “there [being] as many sects as there are heads”. We went from four Christian groups in ca. 1513 AD (Latins, Byzantines, Orientals, and Assyrians) to over five thousand in ca. 2013.

Which leads us back to the question: how can even the apostolic churches not be united?
 
Which leads us back to the question: how can even the apostolic churches not be united?
An interesting thread and an interesting question. If one were to look at the question through secular eyes, the answer is pretty clear.

This question, among a few others, is the reason that I am and will always be Agnostic.
 
Hahaha.

Well… because through his actions Luther opened the floodgates to “there [being] as many sects as there are heads”. We went from four Christian groups in ca. 1513 AD (Latins, Byzantines, Orientals, and Assyrians) to over five thousand in ca. 2013.

Which leads us back to the question: how can even the apostolic churches not be united?
Well, if he, as you say, opened a flood gate, then it must be assumed that there was already a flood coming, but that’s an issue for another thread.

Honestly, I hope you guys solve the issues beween you, as that would make things much easier for me. 👍

Jon
 
What do you think that is?
It would be rather uncharitable of me to come to a Catholic forum and start dismantling what people believe. It may cause them to stumble. Suffice to say, most people can figure it out rather easily if they have an ounce of objectivity.
 
It would be rather uncharitable of me to come to a Catholic forum and start dismantling what people believe. It may cause them to stumble. Suffice to say, most people can figure it out rather easily if they have an ounce of objectivity.
“It’s pretty clear that Christianity isn’t true because, if Jesus were really in charge of the universe, he would have helped his followers reunite by now”?

It seems unfair for you to hint at something negative/troubling and then, when asked, decline to elaborate. In fact, you “may cause [more] to stumble” this way than if you were to give your case. They’ll be left wondering, potentially for some time, and can never evaluate your reasoning as strong and thus accept its implications or weak and thus dismiss them.
 
“It’s pretty clear that Christianity isn’t true because, if Jesus were really in charge of the universe, he would have helped his followers reunite by now”?

It seems unfair for you to hint at something negative/troubling and then, when asked, decline to elaborate. In fact, you “may cause [more] to stumble” this way than if you were to give your case. They’ll be left wondering, potentially for some time, and can never evaluate your reasoning as strong and thus accept its implications or weak and thus dismiss them.
If they’re that weak in their faith, then a web forum is the last place they need to be on. They need to contact their spiritual father and/or confessor and speak to them.

I’m merely trying to be charitable. I’m Agnostic so there’s obviously an understanding that I look at the world through secular eyes.

But, all right. I’ll humor you.

The reason the churches aren’t in communion is simply because there is no Holy Spirit guiding the church and there is no City that Sits on a Hill. Every conclave and gathering is a function of men making purely secular political decisions through a religious lens while arguing about theological matters that no one can prove to the point that they call respected teachers Haters of God within the same councils.

The churches have fallen out of communion because that is the nature of men. Empires rise and empires fall, regardless of political structure. The church is not immune to this because the Holy Spirit doesn’t exist.

The church is not the body of Christ. If so, then how can Christ’s body be torn or separated from itself? How can the Orthodox and Catholic churches be out of Communion with each other if they are of the same body? If they are the same body, then how can priests refuse Communion to members of that body? If they are not the same body, then why aren’t the two churches doing their best to convert each others’ members to the One True Faith? If one church says that members of the other church can take Communion, but the other side refuses this same gesture to members of the former, then which one is correct? Either someone is partaking in an illicit Eucharist or the other is causing people to be denied their Communion in a malicious and unfair way. How is one to tell which is the true Body when both have legitimate arguments to be made about which is the true church? If you pick Catholicism, do you side with the proper church in Rome or do you ally yourself with separatist organizations like SSPX and Sedevacantists? If you side with the Orthodox, do you keep yourself with a mainstream Patriarch or do you ally yourself with separatists like the Old Believer sects? What about the Oriental Orthodox? Do you ally yourself with the Chalcedonian or non-Chalcedonian Orthodox? They both have valid claims to ancientness and truth.

It’s all make believe. It’s a bunch of men dressed up in robes playing make believe to argue points over something not provable that most likely doesn’t exist.

Do you think it’s better now that I’ve said this? Or should I have kept quiet?
 
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