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MrZetterlund
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I ask that because I just watched “Paranormal Activity” and was like = 
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AntiTheist
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I confess to being baffled by your statement. I can only suppose that you think a movie or nonsense supernatural claims would make someone suddenly believe in a god, which makes close to no sense at all. Please explain further.I ask that because I just watched “Paranormal Activity” and was like =
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Roman_Catholic_1
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Come on did you see those foot prints in the bedroom? The broken picture in the hallway? Those are undeniable facts. Cannot be questioned… oh it wasn’t real photage? A movie you say?.. Right and the *Da Vinci Code *was just a work of fiction…
God bless
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spn82756
Guest
I don’t think that watching a paranormal show is going to change someone’s belief in God. So many of these instances have been well contrived hoaxes.
What should be a consideration though are miracles. Healings that are not explained. Apparitions that lead the way to God. Obviously the Blessed Mother is a main one. There have been Eucharistic miracles. Fatima…the occurrence with the sun is documented even atheist Russian news.
The main thing is to befriend and pray for atheist. Not out of pity by any means. But so they can know the love of God and enjoy eternal life.
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spn82756
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And of course that previous post is in addition to the Bible. But you’ve got to start from the premise that an atheist does not believe in the supernatural occurrences in the Bible. So to quote it does nothing to persuade.
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Garyjohn2
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How Can Atheists Remain Atheists?
I just…don’t…know…
I just…don’t…know…
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AntiTheist
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For what it’s worth, I’m also skeptical of the claim that it’s the “scariest movie of the decade.”
spn82756:
These really aren’t going to be convincing either, for the most part. There are three main reasons for this:
- In the first place, most of the events claimed as “miracles” wouldn’t even qualify as such. They include such things as people getting better from a disease. Not exactly magical. We know that a certain percentage of people sometimes suddently gets better without explanation, just as a certain percentage of people sometimes suddently gets worse without explanation. A perfectly healthy person suddenly dropping dead isn’t a miracle or proof that a god exists, and neither is a sick person suddenly getting better. These things happen all the time.
- Even if you could demonstrate that an honest-to-goodness miracle has occurred, it would only demonstrate that something weird has happened – it wouldn’t indicate the source of such “miracle” and it wouldn’t rule out the possibility of a natural explanation being discovered in the future. It also wouldn’t rule out alternative supernatural explanations. So, for example, let’s say for the sake of argument that a bunch of actual miracles occur – it wouldn’t rule out the possibility that some mischievous supernatural imp is causing them to happen in order to have a laugh on humans by convincing them that such-and-such a religion is true.
- And finally, there are “miracles” that are claimed by other religions, most notably Hinduism, which boasts a number of “living saints” (some of whom are alive today) who work miracles. “Miracles,” in and of themselves, aren’t sufficient to demonstrate that any particular religion is true.
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John7
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me neither…
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John7
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don’t be scared…I ask that because I just watched “Paranormal Activity” and was like =
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agrange
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Because their self justified intellectual hubris convinces them that all there is in the universe is what is part of the physical universe. They refuse to accept that there can be any separate reality from what can be seen, touched or felt with human senses or detection instruments.
In other words, in their arrogance they think they “Know it all” and cannot be convinced otherwise.
In other words, in their arrogance they think they “Know it all” and cannot be convinced otherwise.
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AntiTheist
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Well, I certainly don’t think that I “know it all,” and in fact, I’ve never met another atheist who expressed that thought. In fact, most of the atheists that I’ve known have been excited by the idea that we are learning more about the universe every day.
Now, you bring up an interesting point: atheists don’t accept that things exist that cannot be detected. The reason for this is that to “exist” means “to manifest in a detectable way.” If it doesn’t, then what does “exist” mean? And if things can “exist” without manifesting, what distinguishes “exist” from “non-exist”?
For example, if I claim that an invisible purple dragon exists under my bed but is completely undetectable, what does it mean to say that he “exists”? Even if he’s there and undetectable, the situation is indistinguishable from him not being there.
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spn82756
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Main Entry: ex·ist
Pronunciation: \ig-ˈzist
Function: intransitive verb
Etymology: Latin exsistere to come into being, exist, from ex- + sistere to stand, stop; akin to Latin stare to stand — more at stand
Date: circa 1568
1 a : to have **real being whether material or spiritual ** b : to have being in a specified place or with respect to understood limitations or conditions <strange ideas existed in his mind>
2 : to continue to be <racism still exists in society>
3 a : to have life or the functions of vitality b : to live at an inferior level or under adverse circumstances <the hungry existing from day to day>
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wmscott
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I wonder how many atheists become instant Christians when they are near or death.I ask that because I just watched “Paranormal Activity” and was like =
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AntiTheist
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And what does it mean to have “real spiritual being”? And how do you demonstrate that? We could start playing the dictionary game and look up “spiritual” and then look up words from that definition and go around and around in circles.
The point is: how do you conclude that something exists if you can’t detect it in the first place? I submit that no one is justified in believing that things that are undetectable exist, as they are indistinguishable from things that don’t exist.
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crazzeto
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Beats me, I have no idea how someone can stay an Athiest… Anyway, I think it’s fun that more often than not the first argument Athiests try to throw at me is “well with science, we don’t need God anymore!!”. It really makes me laugh, because this has always been the first argument thrown out when people decide there’s no God. And what’s even funnier is every time we think we have everything figured out, we have a great handle on stuff, we come to realize that all of the science we’ve been clinging to has been wrong and we were a bunch of fools.
So with that in mind, “the fool says in his heart, there is no God”.
So with that in mind, “the fool says in his heart, there is no God”.
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Garyjohn2
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AntiTheist
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Well, a lot of people need a crutch in that moment. That’s one of the reasons I admire Carl Sagan so much, as he openly declared on his deathbed that he was an atheist; that kind of courage and strength of intellectual honesty is hard to come by.I wonder how many atheists become instant Christians when they are near or death.
crazzeto:
Any atheist who makes that their “first argument” is pretty juvenile and probably hasn’t thought through their position very thoroughly.
The “first argument” should be that there is exactly zero evidence for the existence of any god or supernatural being.
Science, obviously, is based upon tentative conclusions that change when we acquire more evidence. The fact that it changes to match evidence makes it reliable; ideas that never change, even in the face of evidence to the contrary, are not trustworthy at all.
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spn82756
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I’m not questioning what you believe. I’m questioning your definition of EXIST. Let’s not change the meaning of my post.
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crazzeto
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And there in is the problem with your argument, you are accepting on faith that there is no God every bit as much as I am accepting on faith that there is a God. So on that level alone, the playing field is rather equal isn’t it?
Where the playing field get’s thrown off kilter, is all the documented miricles (some of which are being discussed here) for which there is absolutly no answer for. Other than, there is in fact a God.
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AntiTheist
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No, it’s not.
What you’ve posted – assuming that it’s all true and not embellished – is an example of “weird stuff.” There may be a natural explanation for it that we don’t know yet, or there may be countless supernatural explanations for it, explanations that may include your god or may include leprechauns for all we know.
Lots of people pray or get prayed for when they’re near death. Most of those people die, but the few of them who live attribute their survival to a miracle. It’s not exactly convincing stuff.
spn82756:
Well, I’ve explained the way that I use the word “exist.” If you use the word to mean “things that have spiritual being,” then I ask you how you ascertain that things that have spiritual being exist and how you distinguish these things from things that don’t exist.
crazzeto:
No. I don’t claim to believe there is no god, and I don’t take it as a matter of “faith.” I simply don’t accept any of the god claims I have ever heard, your god or any other.
The burden of proof is on the person making the claim. If you claim that there is a god, and I don’t accept your claim, it is up to you to provide evidence of the existence of this god. Similarly, if I claimed that a purple invisible dragon existed, and you didn’t accept my claim, it would be up to me to provide evidence of the existence of this dragon.
The playing field is not “equal” and atheism is not a position of “faith.” Try again.
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