How can condoms be an obstacle to God?

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AllEars

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Hi all,

I know there are oodles of posts on here about NFP vs. contraception, etc. but I’ve yet to find one that attacks the subject on a very basic level. Forgive me if my search wasn’t thorough enough.

I’m asking this because I honestly want to know. I assume we will tackle some of this in my upcoming RCIA classes, but I’m also about to begin the marriage prep process with DH (married civilly) and my curiosity is getting the best of me. I am having SUCH a hard time wrapping my head around all of this, so your help is appreciated. For the record, I’m referring only to condoms here. I have pretty much always been against the pill- it just CAN’T be good for your body, IMHO.

NFP is used to plan a family- either to achieve or avoid (with a valid reason) If a valid reason exists for avoiding, what difference does it make what method is used to avoid? I understand that the Church teaches us that contraception is wrong, but why? Someone explained it to me like this: “At least with NFP, there is still a possibility that a child could be conceived if it were the will of God because there is no barrier or hormonal impedement.” But frankly, if God wants a child to be conceived, the child will be conceived, condom or otherwise. He’s God. I honestly can’t wrap my head around this. NFP is even touted as being about as reliable for avoiding as condoms, percentage wise, at least on our local NFP website.

FWIW, I WILL submit to this because the Church teaches it, but I’d like to understand it on an intellectual level as well. Keep in mind, I’ve had an entirely non-religious upbringing, so I’m new to all of this! 😊
 
Condoms don’t make the act unitive and the intention is to prevent it from being procreative. The outcome is, in this case irrelevant. Condoms make the marital embrace a selfish act. You’re not even really touching your spouse either. What kind of complete gift of self is that?

You’re trusting God to “overrule” the condom if he “insists” on overriding sinful contraceptive mentalities instead of a) working on your marriage in other ways during a time of abstinence or b) having sex and trusting God will not give you a child if it’s not what’s best for your family.

You wouldn’t play Russian Roulette with your husband, would you? Better yet, let’s say you’re playing with 5 bullets in the revolver instead of 1. Sure, you could argue that if God really wanted to save you, he could make the injury non fatal, or even intervene and line up the empty chambers. But it’s really just better not to point a loaded gun at anyone’s head. It’s not a good practice for your relationship with each other or with God.

*Obviously there are much deeper reasons than what I have expressed, and the Catechism does a better, more serious job of explaining this. I just like to operate in metaphors from time to time.
 
AllEars said:
Hi all,

I know there are oodles of posts on here about NFP vs. contraception, etc. but I’ve yet to find one that attacks the subject on a very basic level. Forgive me if my search wasn’t thorough enough.

I’m asking this because I honestly want to know. I assume we will tackle some of this in my upcoming RCIA classes, but I’m also about to begin the marriage prep process with DH (married civilly) and my curiosity is getting the best of me. I am having SUCH a hard time wrapping my head around all of this, so your help is appreciated. For the record, I’m referring only to condoms here. I have pretty much always been against the pill- it just CAN’T be good for your body, IMHO.

NFP is used to plan a family- either to achieve or avoid (with a valid reason) If a valid reason exists for avoiding, what difference does it make what method is used to avoid? I understand that the Church teaches us that contraception is wrong, but why? Someone explained it to me like this: “At least with NFP, there is still a possibility that a child could be conceived if it were the will of God because there is no barrier or hormonal impedement.” But frankly, if God wants a child to be conceived, the child will be conceived, condom or otherwise. He’s God. I honestly can’t wrap my head around this. NFP is even touted as being about as reliable for avoiding as condoms, percentage wise, at least on our local NFP website.

FWIW, I WILL submit to this because the Church teaches it, but I’d like to understand it on an intellectual level as well. Keep in mind, I’ve had an entirely non-religious upbringing, so I’m new to all of this! 😊
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I’m no expert, but I will give what feeble answer I can give.

Condoms are made specifically so you cannot have children. They are artificial, unnatural, and they are directly against God’s will. With NFP, there is nothing unnatural, nothing artificial, and nothing against His will. You are having sex naturally, without impeding the ability to conceive. You are not directly avoiding children with it, whereas you are with condoms. Someone told me this in a much better way, and I know this may not sound as convincing as it was when it was told to me, so I do apologize. I recommend the Patrick Coffin book Sex Au Naturel: shop.catholic.com/sex-au-naturel-what-it-is-and-why-it-s-good-for-your-marriage.html?___store=default There’s also one by Jason Evert called Green Sex which I hear is good.

Anyway, I hope that helped in at least some way, even if it was to just to get you to read a really good book on the subject.
 
AllEars said:
For the record, I’m referring only to condoms here.
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OK 🙂
AllEars said:
what difference does it make what method is used to avoid?
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This is actually one of the primary questions on this other thread.

One of the things we’re discussing right now is that the morality of an act is not determined by the end/goal alone. Not only must the end of the act be good, the means and circumstances must also be good in order for the act to be good.

The Catholic Church teaches that periodic abstinence can be a good means to avoid pregnancy when there is reason to do so. Condoms and other contraceptives, on the other hand, are immoral means of avoiding pregnancy.

The morality of the act is not determined by the end alone (avoiding pregnancy) but also by the means used to attain that end.

There’s a lot more about this over on the other thread.
AllEars said:
I understand that the Church teaches us that contraception is wrong, but why?
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In addition to asking around and reading here, I would strongly recommend reading some other good materials on this matter. Of course the teaching of the Church is first, so you might read what the *Catechism of the Catholic Church *says, read Humanae Vitae by Pope Paul VI, and/or read Pope John Paul II’s Man and Woman He Created Them (by far the longest of these three!).

Secondary works may also be helpful. I see that something’s already recommended. My own personal recommendation would be Karol Wojtyla’s Love & Responsibility. A short collection of excerpts is available free here, and you may download and print it if you like.
AllEars said:
FWIW, I WILL submit to this because the Church teaches it, but I’d like to understand it on an intellectual level as well. Keep in mind, I’ve had an entirely non-religious upbringing, so I’m new to all of this! 😊
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Nothing wrong with asking! 👍
 
Thanks!

Those answers make more sense to me. I’ll definitely check out books on the subject because I really do want to fully “get it”

I have a hard time practicing/agreeing with something I don’t fully understand. I’m in the process of reconciling some long-held misconceptions about the Church to the basics (regarding God, Jesus, etc.) that I have come to recognize as Truth, so I always have to know the “why” behind everything. Just ask the lovely people leading my RCIA inquiry group! I never shut up. I even formed an e-mail group so I could bother everyone with questions outside of class. :rolleyes:
 
In short, it comes down to this:

Each sexual act must be open to the possibility of new life.

This is actually really obvious if you think about it. I mean, if sex was only about the pleasure then why wouldn’t God just give us all pleasure buttons to push rather then highly specialized organs? Clearly, sex is not intended to only be about the pleasure.

Let me give you an analogy here:

Separating the pleasure of sex from it’s requirement of being open to the possibility of life using a condom is kind of like putting a plastic bag in your mouth to catch the pieces of food when you eat… Say a person wanted to enjoy the culinary aspects of eating but didn’t want to deal with nutritive component of eating (ie. weight gain). This is actually a very real disorder (bulimia) and there isn’t a health professional out there who won’t tell you that it is an eating disorder. In fact, the big difference between bulimia and contraception is that bulimia causes a person to have a disordered relationship with their food, while contraception causes a person to have a disordered relationship with their spouse.

Hope this helps!
 
Condoms have a pretty high rate of failure. I’ve heard 15% and 1:12 (8.33%). NFP has a failure rate approaching zero in areas where it is used correctly and exclusively. NFP is NOT the rhythm method (very high failure rate)! The problem with NFP is the “risky” days but if you avoid intercourse on those days you won’t get pregnant. It’s math, not magic. Sperm and egg cells do not live all month and there are days where a woman is not in the fertile part of her cycle and any sperm will die before the egg is viable.
 
well first of all I heard someone saying condoms are unnatural, well whats the meaning of natural? Imagine a monkey breaking a stick to take a fruit unreachable before. This is evolution, this is just as natural as we using our resources, (all natural) (I mean where you guys think they come from? another planet). In both cases we species are altering the tools given to evolve, so condoms are natural as everything else we ve built.

Then if its part of the nature because it came from us, and we came from god how can it be wrong? you guys are assuming the pleasure of the act means nothing, we feeling desire is the escense of the human race thats the way we survive… making sex. How you guys know god its against people having sex not meaning to have childlren. You guys are assuming things, you guys can not know what god thinks about condoms.

So know god thinks sex for pleasure is bad? when he said or allude to that, never.
 
ATeutonicKnight said:
I’m no expert, but I will give what feeble answer I can give.

Condoms are made specifically so you cannot have children. They are artificial, unnatural, and they are directly against God’s will.
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You’re answering the problem of the question with the problem of the question.

The Bible says to multiply and be fertile.
It doesn’t say that you should constantly live in anticipation of a pregnancy, nor does it say that it is God’s will that you pop out as many babies as you can.

“Condoms are made specifically so you cannot have children”

Last I checked, contraception isn’t necessarily a permanent practice.
You’re comparing a man briefly deciding to be safe with his family’s future-
to a man getting his tubes tied to be infertile permanently.
 
luis39 said:
well first of all I heard someone saying condoms are unnatural, well whats the meaning of natural? Imagine a monkey breaking a stick to take a fruit unreachable before. This is evolution, this is just as natural as we using our resources, (all natural) (I mean where you guys think they come from? another planet). In both cases we species are altering the tools given to evolve, so condoms are natural as everything else we ve built.
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Firstly, Welcome to the forums luis39

Secondly I think your argument is a straw man argument,

The meaning of natural:

nat·u·ral
/ˈnaCHərəl/
Adjective
Existing in or caused by nature; not made or caused by humankind. - Self explanitory I hope.
Noun
A person regarded as having an innate gift or talent for a particular task or activity.
Adverb
Naturally: “keep walking—just act natural”.

On what basis are you assuming that because we (bad generalization about the forums here) as Catholics don’t use condoms etc & prefer NFP that we are demeaning sex?
luis39 said:
How you guys know god its against people having sex not meaning to have childlren. You guys are assuming things, you guys can not know what god thinks about condoms.
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You are accusing us of assuming and you give us this statement?!? Rather than write an essay I suggest you read the following link for enlightenment & to answer any questions you may have:

vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a6.htm

When we believe in God and trust in him Sex, Life, Marriage etc can be very pleasurable.

God Bless

:gopray:
 
Many of the previous answers concern the individual’s and couple’s relationship with God and each other. I want to talk about what happens to society when methods like condoms, IUD’s, pills become an accepted method. Sex becomes “easier”, sexual UNION becomes scarce, kids experiment with no sense of consequences so they learn how to use each other; they are becoming jaded, losing their humanity, looking for the next orgasm and thrill, forgetting the primary life-giving purpose of sex. They learned this from the sophisticated adults who are hurt, abandoned, confused, or addicted. They learned this from the “condom and foam” media who treat sex like it’s a part of daily grooming.

Then they get married, nothing is special, both partners have a back-up of experiences with other partners, many have lost their fertility due to STD’s, “discovery” has turned into a circus of showing off old tricks. Marriages don’t last; many don’t even marry. More babies are born to single moms. This is not a healthy society. We are so removed from our true humanness and the best parts of our nature that we are cut off from God, the One who gave us these gifts.
 
luis39 said:
well first of all I heard someone saying condoms are unnatural, well whats the meaning of natural? Imagine a monkey breaking a stick to take a fruit unreachable before. This is evolution, this is just as natural as we using our resources, (all natural) (I mean where you guys think they come from? another planet). In both cases we species are altering the tools given to evolve, so condoms are natural as everything else we ve built.

Then if its part of the nature because it came from us, and we came from god how can it be wrong? you guys are assuming the pleasure of the act means nothing, we feeling desire is the escense of the human race thats the way we survive… making sex. How you guys know god its against people having sex not meaning to have childlren. You guys are assuming things, you guys can not know what god thinks about condoms.

So know god thinks sex for pleasure is bad? when he said or allude to that, never.
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First, AllEars is asking the question and looking for the answer from the theological standpoint of the Catholic Church, not for a Darwinistic answer that promotes moral relativism.

Second, I notice that you list yourself as an athiest, as such, you don’t believe in God. Since you don’t believe in God, then it goes without saying that you don’t believe the Bible is Divinely inspired. But if you are HONESTLY looking for answers and the truth to your question(s) there are plenty of places in the Bible about having sex without being open to having children and why it’s wrong. You would be better served to refrain from stating with authority what you think God said/did not say until you have read and comprehended the Bible and the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

Lastly, I may be mistaken, but it appears as if your post is nothing more than “trolling”.

pax vobiscum
 
Buzzard_86 said:
First, AllEars is asking the question and looking for the answer from the theological standpoint of the Catholic Church, not for a Darwinistic answer that promotes moral relativism.

Second, I notice that you list yourself as an athiest, as such, you don’t believe in God. Since you don’t believe in God, then it goes without saying that you don’t believe the Bible is Divinely inspired. But if you are HONESTLY looking for answers and the truth to your question(s) there are plenty of places in the Bible about having sex without being open to having children and why it’s wrong. You would be better served to refrain from stating with authority what you think God said/did not say until you have read and comprehended the Bible and the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

Lastly, I may be mistaken, but it appears as if your post is nothing more than “trolling”.

pax vobiscum
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:clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping:
 
Perhaps, AllEars, this might help.

Condoms are an obstacle to God in the same way that any and all disobedience is an obstacle to God. It is not that they are preventing conception, per se. It can be moral to avoid conception.

The difficulty with condoms is they are sacrilege. Sex is supposed to be a sacramental act, the renewing of the marital covenant, which includes the marital promises. To do violence to the act of sex, which condoms do, is to commit sacrilege. That is why it is mortal sin.

One is not obliged to have sex, unless one’s spouse requests it, so mutually agreed upon abstinence is acceptable. It is in the same as not receiving the Eucharist on a given day. All that is required is to receive it once per year. One may choose not to receive, and that is not in any way sinful.

However, receiving improperly, whether because one has eaten within an hour or because one has mortal sin on one’s soul, is sacrilege. It is a mortal sin.
 
Condoms aren’t an obstalce God? Why do you think they are?

In a healthy Christian/Catholic relationship/marriage there wouldn’t be any need for condoms or any other method to fight pregnancy because there wouldn’t be any unwanted pregnancies at all. That if we were all living by standards given to us by St Paul who have stated to us about men respecting women and women respecting men which is controversial in itself this day and age it seems but I think that is because people no longer want to obey their marital partners anymore.

But as we all know life don’t work as well as that. It not about the condom being an obstacle to God but about life and planning life rather than the gift of life and playing God. Suicide is considered wrong because we are playing at God by ending our lives in that sad moment well then so is using condoms is as wrong because it not allowing a life to happen just because two people want to get together and share a bit of sexual fun together and don’t want the consequences and responsibilties what sexual fun together may bring. We shouldn’t end our lives because we are playing God, well we shouldn’t stop another life from happening because we are playing God.

I am not Roman Catholic by the way, I am Anglican. This is just another way of presenting the argument. Why should we be the ones who determin a birth of another life. A condom is doing that and thus making us play God rather than let God be God
 
AllEars said:
NFP is used to plan a family- either to achieve or avoid (with a valid reason) If a valid reason exists for avoiding, what difference does it make what method is used to avoid? I understand that the Church teaches us that contraception is wrong, but why?
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The ends do not justify the means. In other areas of our life, this is fairly self-evident. For example, if my goal is to feed my family, what difference does it make if I buy the food or steal it? My goal is a moral good- feeding my family. Well, I think you can see pretty quickly that the means you use do make a difference, it is not just the end that must be a good but also how you arrive at it.
AllEars said:
Someone explained it to me like this: “At least with NFP, there is still a possibility that a child could be conceived if it were the will of God because there is no barrier or hormonal impedement.”
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That is a poor explanation (although a common one) and not the basis of Church teaching.
AllEars said:
FWIW, I WILL submit to this because the Church teaches it, but I’d like to understand it on an intellectual level as well. Keep in mind, I’ve had an entirely non-religious upbringing, so I’m new to all of this! 😊
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What the Church actually teaches is tha teach act of intercourse must be properly ordered in the way God created it (unaltered). God created intercourse for unity of spouses and procreation. We are not free to seek one dimension without the other present.

The choice comes in whether or not to have intercourse. I can choose to be intimate with my spouse, or not. If I choose intimacy, it must not be disordered, this is a grave offense against God-- the author and authority over our sexuality.

If choose to have intercourse and alter it by an act of my will to render it sterile, I have violated God’s established order for intercourse. I am not free to treat his gift inappropriately and in any manner I choose. I must respect sexuality and its powerful significance in God’s plan.

So, I can choose to engage intercourse, or refrain from it. NFP is simply information that can help me decide whether to have intercourse or not, based on whether I am trying to achieve a pregnancy or avoid one at that time.

What I cannot do is dishonor God by disordering his gift of the marital embrace.
 
Maybe the church will revise this someday but personally i feel that natural birth prevention and condom is the same. If the condom isn’t acceptable then neither natural birth prevention should be. If natural birth prevention is acceptable then also the use of condom should be but since the Church allowed natural birth prevention then i feel we should be grateful for this simply. If you are afraid to have children, then abstinence is 100% safe. Sexuality is blessed in marriage to multiple, you cannot use it for personal pleasure only. I find the church very tolerant for so many reason regardless others thinking otherwise.
 
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