How can conscious souls ever be beyond redemption?

[Neoplatonist]

My question here has to do with the fact that often throughout our experiences, it is our interaction with others that helps to bring about a change of heart. We could look to countless examples from the lives of the saints alone.

Why, then, in the afterlife, would it no longer be possible for the souls in eternity to still be moved by each other or to be moved to re-consider their interpretation of their own actions and lives?

 

[dshix]

My question here has to do with the fact that often throughout our experiences, it is our interaction with others that helps to bring about a change of heart. We could look to countless examples from the lives of the saints alone.

Why, then, in the afterlife, would it no longer be possible for the souls in eternity to still be moved by each other or to be moved to re-consider their interpretation of their own actions and lives?

Great question.

In the afterlife, we will have our minds, hearts, and souls purified, because we will be freed from the bondage of sin here on earth and the obstructions to our will which result from concupiscience, which exist right now in our human lives. Our mind will no longer be clouded with doubt, or changed by fear, because we will be in heaven, with the vision of God.

In this pure state, we will know everything, and understand all things pertaining to sin and virtue. There will be no way to “grow” in faith because we will already know all that could be obtained for it.

We will certainly be astounded by the mystery of God, and we will not know everything there is to about him, but we certainly will not need to continue growing in faith.

 

[GEddie]

Repentance requires collinear time.

Collinear time is an artifact of entropy in our natural bodies.

So repentance is not available in eternity.

ICXC NIKA

 

[JimG]

Another way to look at it is that we are composite beings of body and soul. We obtain knowledge through our senses, through sensory (name removed by moderator)ut, which our intellect then abstracts into ideas. During our lifetimes we can change our minds, because we are always receiving new (name removed by moderator)ut from the senses. Once we die, we have no more sensory (name removed by moderator)ut; there is no more change.

 

[Neoplatonist]

Interesting, but brings to mind a few things:

1.Since the soul is the form of an embodied being (Aquinas), wouldn’t we have spiritual bodies?

2.What about the case of those, um, NOT in Heaven?

3.I thought we were able to be aware of souls living on Earth, even from the afterlife, so there would still be the perception of time, would there not?

4.One indiscernibly long moment of bliss doesn’t exactly sound all that great. We can use those words to seem like we’re saying something, but how can we actually comprehend the idea as something desirable - it sounds indistinguishable from just hitting the pause button at a really awesome moment. ?]

 

[GEddie]

There is indeed a spiritual body. S. Paul describes this as “pneumatikon soma.”

As to time, we cannot comprehend living without it in its collinear form because we have known nothing else. We will certainly have some analog of it to allow movement, etc. but it will not be the time we know, as entropy driven.

ICXC NIKA

 

[Neoplatonist]

How can souls in Heaven ever be happy knowing, as they do/would, that there are souls in Hell?

 

[tonyrey]

How can souls in Heaven ever be happy knowing, as they do/would, that there are souls in Hell?

Happiness in heaven is realistic because those who are in hell are full of love for themselves and couldn’t care less about anyone else. Why spend eternity lamenting the fact that they have the power to choose their own destiny?

 

[Neoplatonist]

Happiness in heaven is realistic because those who are in hell are full of love for themselves and couldn’t care less about anyone else. Why spend eternity lamenting the fact that they have the power to choose their own destiny?

But how could Heaven be the fulfillment of our natures without compassion for the suffering? Are we just magically OK with it because it’s drowned out by our own happiness. It sounds like paradox ensues if we no longer care for the others (damned) because they no longer cared for others. (Hey, it’s my post, so I get to pick which group I’m in ).

 

[tonyrey]

*Happiness in heaven is realistic because those who are in hell are full of love for themselves and couldn’t care less about anyone else. Why spend eternity lamenting the fact that they have the power to choose their own destiny? *

Compassion doesn’t exclude joy nor does joy exclude compassion. It is a question of proportion. Do you have more compassion for those who inflict suffering or their victims?

(Hey, it’s my post, so I get to pick which group I’m in ).

In hell there is no compassion.

 

[Neoplatonist]

Compassion doesn’t exclude joy nor does joy exclude compassion. It is a question of proportion. Do you have more compassion for those who inflict suffering or their victims?

In hell there is no compassion.

Aren’t the souls in hell both the ones who inflict suffering and the victims?

How can there be compassion without sadness at the suffering of others? How can there be joy that is not mitigated by sadness?

 

[tonyrey]

Compassion doesn’t exclude joy nor does joy exclude compassion. It is a question of proportion. Do you have more compassion for those who inflict suffering or their victims?

Aren’t the souls in hell both the ones who inflict suffering and the victims?It depends on whether we choose to live for ourselves or others. Hell is a state of self-inflicted isolation.

How can there be compassion without sadness at the suffering of others? How can there be joy that is not mitigated by sadness?

Their self-inflicted isolation is a cause for regret but it doesn’t lessen the immense joy of being united in peace and harmony in the presence of God because we shall know that everyone has what they want and what they deserve.

[/QUOTE]

 

[Neoplatonist]

Neoplatonist;11642822:

No response!

Not sure what happened here, this was not MY quote. ?

Their self-inflicted isolation is a cause for regret but it doesn’t lessen the immense joy of being united in peace and harmony in the presence of God because we shall know that everyone has what they want and what they deserve.

That’s a strange view. I see people in the world all the time who have brought suffering on themselves, and maybe even deserve it (that’s trickier), but hope I would never be capable of not feeling sadness for their sadness or that I cannot somehow alleviate (or at least mitigate) their suffering. I would be a little bit disappointed in meeting Christ to find he did not share this view.

Does a parent ever stop weeping for the mess their adult children may have made of their lives?