How can God be so creul?

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Abbadon

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Often people say that homosexuality is genetic or you are born with it, others say it is a choice. But watched on the weekend something far more haunting and it has really got be to question my faith to almost once more a total back flip.

I saw children that had gender identity issues, children as young as beginning at the age as 2, and documenting ages 6, 12 and 18…

Just what these children have to go through because of a hormonal imbalance that occurred in their mothers womb. Most of the cases looked at was boys that thought they should be girls. And the way they staunchly wanted to be so. And the most haunting thing that one of the parents said was.

I walked in and he was on his knees in his bed room praying, he was crying turned to me and said, why wont god take back the mistake he made, i pray every night that i will be a girl like i should be and i wake up and I’m the same.

And that just really hit me, these children are really innocent, and if it wasn’t for the love and acceptance (some eventual acceptance) of their parents, it would be horrible.

And what they then go through in school. All i can think of is how can god create a child that has to suffer like that. It really has shocked my faith, to almost a stand point. I shall talk this through with my priest.

But i ask the answer of others how can go be so cruel.
 
He’s not society is for puting these heinous thoughts in the heads of the innocents. There is a very steep price to be paid for doing that, God will not look kindly on the action of this society out of control.
But he that shall scandalize one of these little ones that believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone should be hanged about his neck, and that he should be drowned in the depth of the sea.
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Matt 18:6 spoken by the Lord
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Abbadon said:
But i ask the answer of others how can go be so cruel.
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God is not cruel, because it is not in His nature to be angry, cruel, vendictive, vengeful, or evil. God is Mercy and Love.

The problems of this world were caused and continue to be caused by humans. Our illustrious ancestors, Adam and Eve, broke the world, and we continue to do so through our sinfulness and pride.

God is not to blame for the imperfections of this world: we are.
 
Often people say that homosexuality is genetic or you are born with it, others say it is a choice.
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Actions are not genetic. A person may be predisposed to many disordered behaviors but it is a CHOICE he makes whether to act upon them or not.
I saw children that had gender identity issues, children as young as beginning at the age as 2, and documenting ages 6, 12 and 18…
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Define “gender issues”. Does a little girl who hates dolls and dresses immediately have a “gender issue” or is she just a normal little child, perhaps a tomboy, who needs guidance and direction from loving parents?
Just what these children have to go through because of a hormonal imbalance that occurred in their mothers womb.
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What kind of prenatal hormonal imbalance would cause a child to have “gender issues”? Can you elaborate or provide a link to back up this claim?
Most of the cases looked at was boys that thought they should be girls. And the way they staunchly wanted to be so.
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Tell me how this is different from kids who want to be taller, or blonder, or shorter, or skinnier? Did they provide a history of these children, some back story about their family life? Do we know if the little boys had daddy’s in the home or a strong religious upbringing? Were they the only boys in the family? You’ve provided a pretty sketchy scenario that tells us nothing about these children other than that they have “gender issues”.
I walked in and he was on his knees in his bed room praying, he was crying turned to me and said, why wont god take back the mistake he made, i pray every night that i will be a girl like i should be and i wake up and I’m the same.
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And this is the point where the parent should walk into the room, take the child in her arms and tell him that God made him perfect just the way he is and God loves him. This is the point where dad comes in and reinforces the son’s sense of himself as a boy. This is the point where children need to be told that they will experience many conflicting feelings as they grow up and that mom and dad will be there to help them sort through them all.
And that just really hit me, these children are really innocent, and if it wasn’t for the love and acceptance (some eventual acceptance) of their parents, it would be horrible.
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Depends on what you mean by acceptance. If you mean a parent should accept that a 2 year old boy “knows” he should be a girl, then I think you need to spend more time around two year olds. If you mean acceptance that the child is experiencing some conflict, then yes, they should acknowledge that but guide them to a healthier understanding of the gender they were born to.
 
Here is the transcript from where i saw it. It would be far more accurate than my memory

sixtyminutes.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=297615

It’s a pity its not in the video library

youtube.com/watch?v=Utpam0IGYac

that is the video by ABC’s 20/20 i think its the same I’m watching it now…
Actions are not genetic. A person may be predisposed to many disordered behaviors but it is a CHOICE he makes whether to act upon them or not.
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I just think its bull that you don’t have a predisposed attraction towards the same sex. or that you psychologically feel that you should be the opposite sex and then someone else does. How on earth is that a fair judge of character. And what suffering must that person go through just because they were created that way.
Tell me how this is different from kids who want to be taller, or blonder, or shorter, or skinnier?
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It’s not about wanting to be something more how can you compare … Just watch the show… And re reply…
 
I think the real problem here is scientific determinism, which negates the reality of free will.
 
It is actually a much better report

youtube.com/watch?v=Utpam0IGYac

I think its something that all people should watch… It’s very touching and also the comments below each part from people on youtube are intresting…
 
Sonic said:
God is not cruel, because it is not in His nature to be angry, cruel, vendictive, vengeful, or evil. God is Mercy and Love.

The problems of this world were caused and continue to be caused by humans. Our illustrious ancestors, Adam and Eve, broke the world, and we continue to do so through our sinfulness and pride.

God is not to blame for the imperfections of this world: we are.
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You’re leaving somebody out of this discussion…

http://www.halloweenheaven.com/pics/2006/21779.jpg
 
“Their parents insist that this is not just a phase”. Hmmm.

60 Minutes, 20/20. Hmmmm.

Didn’t 60 minutes rig a truck to explode when hit to “prove” that some pickup truck gas tanks were design-faulty?

I don’t doubt that this sort of thing happens, but first, I’d question:
  1. The reporting, the networks and their ageda in airing these stories.
  2. The parents agendas.
Could it be that the parents’ thoughts, attitudes and actions about gender identity are being imposed on their children? Are they influencing them to draw attention to themselves?

Could it be that such stories are edited and aired to “prove” that gender identity issues are inborn, supporting certain political/social agendas?

These are questions that come into my mind when I see stories like this on these programs. Actually, I don’t watch them regularly as I don’t watch agenda-driven reporting.

I know women and men who exhibit masculine and feminine tendencies respectively, to the point of where it’s very obvious. Were they like that as children? I don’t know. But they seem to be leading happy lives without being “transgender”.

So I think it’s a stretch to blame God for being “cruel”. Is it cruel of God to allow children with physical disabilities? Cancer?
 
Let me get this straight. You watched two programs put out by the mainstream media ( which just MIGHT have a bit of bias and certainly has no respect for christianity) and you have made up your mind. That’s called drinking the kool-aid, my friend.

As another poster already identified, you don’t know who produced these shows, you don’t know what they are NOT telling you about the environment that these poor kids were born into.

News flash for you: most TV talking heads draw their self-worth and sense of identity NOT from a religious tradition, but from the benefit they believe they are brining the world by their work (I forget where I read it, but it was a poll done on TV ‘journalists’). In other words, whatever their OWN beliefs, they believe they are ‘helping’ the world when they spread them and convince others of them.

Again, as said by others, God is not cruel. The suffering that exists in the world has its roots in the sin of humans who rejected God. It is a tragic fact that our sins do not just affect us, but those around us. And especially those who we love (or should love ) the most.
 
Youtube is definately not a reputable source. Anyone can put a video on there saying alomst anything they want.

There are a very VERY few people born with anomylous gender. They usually have both forms of sex organs to some degree. This is a serious issue and needs very careful medical intervention, but it is extremely rare and isn’t a case at all of a child who is physically totaly one gender thinking he/she should be another.

Others have mentioned how good parenting can help children resolve these issues. Yes, obviously people do grow up to have SSA (for whatever reason), but that still does not mean they should act on those attractions or make having surgery or other medical interventions a moral choice. We ALL have struggles with sin, we ALL need to support each other in making the correct moral actions to flee the temptation of sin and our coorperation with it.

I will say a rosary for those children and their parents, that they may be lead into the light and not farther into darkness.
 
Perhaps we should blame ourselves:

Estrogens in the food chain and environment

Soy products

Hormones in the food supply
 
Well, it was a Youtube broadcast of a 20/20 episode…

…but 20/20 is probably less reliable than Youtube! 😃
 
I know these emotional problems can seem tortuous for some folks, but let’s get some perspective, ok? I can think of about 100 other things off the top of my head that could be MUCH worse than being born with a little hormone imbalance.

I have a genetic predisposition to be nearsighted, asthmatic, overweight and have an underbite, (as well a genetic predisposition for cancer and heart disease) but you’ll never hear me bemoaning the cruel god who made me such a deformed mutant of a man. :rolleyes:
 
I looked through case studies at my friends place, and also through psychology books and it’s pretty real. I read very similar cases to that.

But i guess that moves to the deeper question of children born with serious disabilities, something that cannot be refuted at all. Something that i never real took to thought as it was always so distant from me. Even though i volunteered with such kids, my next door neighbours has a disabled child we play with but untill that kid said those lines in that program, i never realized the horror. It all just clicked at that moment, i think its called an epiphany…
Again, as said by others, God is not cruel. The suffering that exists in the world has its roots in the sin of humans who rejected God. It is a tragic fact that our sins do not just affect us, but those around us. And especially those who we love (or should love ) the most.
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I would think its a bit bull that i would have to suffer for the sins of my parents, and would smack some face in the afterlife.
have a genetic predisposition to be nearsighted, asthmatic, overweight and have an underbite, (as well a genetic predisposition for cancer and heart disease) but you’ll never hear me bemoaning the cruel god who made me such a deformed mutant of a man.
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And I’m assuming you will be wearing glasses, taking medication and exercising and staying healthy? WOW really hard things to do. Society is really going to make you an outcast for doing those things, your going to be teased and bullied for sure…
Okay maybe for the four eyes and the fat man excersising and the loser with the puffer… Or you can CHOOSE to live the way god made you???

Before commenting i would appreciate people watching the report, then give your feelings. To me the responses of the children and the parents seemed very real. The mother didn’t want her child to be wanting to be a girl. she wanted her little boy, and the father of the other child also iook it hard. But they accept thier children for who they are.

I often wonder how my parents would react to something like this. I know now they would accept me for anything, but as a child what would they have done??? I my self would try and raise my boy a boy, let him wear sarongs (like me) and togas but if he insisted for more than fun and it lasted for years. I would simply accept him/her for what they are…

And sex changes suck, just think about it, would you ever want to go through that process for the deviant fun of it? For the sake of sin?

Wow I’m typing far to much, but my memory dawned on something else. For science we looked at a culture in where a testosterone inhibitor actually has girls that later in there teenage years become boys. That society dealt with it pretty well as they had been doing so for a few hundred years and it was natural and completely normal for them for a girl at the age of 12 to become a boy at the age of 13… I unfortunately could never find out what tribe or exactly where, its been over 6 years now since i saw it…

What about our society how would we treat people like that?

You know what i never asked, beside our society bieng cruel, god has nothing to do with that. Thats how our society is, those children may have been born transgender but it is us who are evil to them and us who don’t accept them. So its not about god creating people to suffer, but US causing there suffering from our prejudices and reasons of hate towards those that are different from us… God may create transgenders, gays, schitzophrenics, but it is US that treats these people inhumanely…

Oh wow this rant has helped so much. I now understand.

But still my mind lingers to the mentally and physically disabled children born all the time…
 
Abbadon said:
I looked through case studies at my friends place, and also through psychology books and it’s pretty real. I read very similar cases to that.

But i guess that moves to the deeper question of children born with serious disabilities, something that cannot be refuted at all. Something that i never real took to thought as it was always so distant from me. Even though i volunteered with such kids, my next door neighbours has a disabled child we play with but untill that kid said those lines in that program, i never realized the horror. It all just clicked at that moment, i think its called an epiphany…

I would think its a bit bull that i would have to suffer for the sins of my parents, and would smack some face in the afterlife.

And I’m assuming you will be wearing glasses, taking medication and exercising and staying healthy? WOW really hard things to do. Society is really going to make you an outcast for doing those things, your going to be teased and bullied for sure…
Okay maybe for the four eyes and the fat man excersising and the loser with the puffer… Or you can CHOOSE to live the way god made you???

Before commenting i would appreciate people watching the report, then give your feelings. To me the responses of the children and the parents seemed very real. The mother didn’t want her child to be wanting to be a girl. she wanted her little boy, and the father of the other child also iook it hard. But they accept thier children for who they are.

I often wonder how my parents would react to something like this. I know now they would accept me for anything, but as a child what would they have done??? I my self would try and raise my boy a boy, let him wear sarongs (like me) and togas but if he insisted for more than fun and it lasted for years. I would simply accept him/her for what they are…

And sex changes suck, just think about it, would you ever want to go through that process for the deviant fun of it? For the sake of sin?

Wow I’m typing far to much, but my memory dawned on something else. For science we looked at a culture in where a testosterone inhibitor actually has girls that later in there teenage years become boys. That society dealt with it pretty well as they had been doing so for a few hundred years and it was natural and completely normal for them for a girl at the age of 12 to become a boy at the age of 13… I unfortunately could never find out what tribe or exactly where, its been over 6 years now since i saw it…

What about our society how would we treat people like that?

You know what i never asked, beside our society bieng cruel, god has nothing to do with that. Thats how our society is, those children may have been born transgender but it is us who are evil to them and us who don’t accept them. So its not about god creating people to suffer, but US causing there suffering from our prejudices and reasons of hate towards those that are different from us… God may create transgenders, gays, schitzophrenics, but it is US that treats these people inhumanely…

Oh wow this rant has helped so much. I now understand.

But still my mind lingers to the mentally and physically disabled children born all the time…
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Wrong. We love the sinner and hate the sin.
 
historyb said:
He’s not society is for puting these heinous thoughts in the heads of the innocents. There is a very steep price to be paid for doing that, God will not look kindly on the action of this society out of control.
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You do realize that the children the OP is talking about are clearly expressing gender identity confusion on thier own … right?

Here’s the original story, I think.

youtube.com/watch?v=Utpam0IGYac
 
Exalt said:
You do realize that the children the OP is talking about are clearly expressing gender identity confusion on thier own … right?
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Quite possibly. That being the case, it seems as if some serious psychotherapy rather than armchair theodicy would be the sensible path to pursue.

– Mark L. Chance.
 
And what of those who have a different gender-identification, yet are atrracted to those of the ostensibly ‘opposite’ sex? One of my very closest friends is and was transgender all her life (born male, but was completely appalled when she hit puberty - somehow, she felt this was NOT what she signed up for, and makes a pretty good case ) and is, though very shy about all such matters, mostly attracted to women. Does this make her a sinfully-inclined lesbian, though she was born male?
 
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