How can God demand this?

[Linusthe2nd]

So what is the source of Ethics, which is taught in various schools, and is secular? Note, I do agree that some areas of Christian morality would not arise in the scope of an Ethics class. For example, Ethics would not have a position on homosexual relations; our Christian morality on this subject comes from God. Is it the case that all Ethics as taught is derived from religious law?

The first point to keep in mind is that no Philosophy of Human Behavior takes the place of the Moral teaching of Christ, the Apostles, and the Catholic Church.

Secondly, there are all kinds of Ethics Philosophies, most of which are utterly useless.

Thirdly, there are good Catholic Ethics Courses which argue a system of morality based on Natural Law. But even these trumphed by the constant teaching of the Church. But they do help us understand the reasons why the Church teaches what it does in Morality.

Linus2nd

 

[Aloysium]

I just got into an discussion with an atheist who claimed that the only way to have an truly moral society which would be secular included individual euthanasia (since people should have the right to decide how they die and totally would not extend to the mentally disabled) since religion uses God in the OT to justify male circumcisum and slavery of foreign people it’s in Leviticus 25:44 and 12:3 respectively. Please, someone help me.

I am confused too. I’m not sure what this means.

A truly moral society would be one where its members do the will of God.

A secular society defines its own morality and it would not seem possible for it to be “truly moral”.

He says, “people should have the right to decide how they die”. From where he has derived this belief, I do not know.
However, he is also of the opinion that the mentally disabled should be left to suffer. It makes little sense to me.
And I would think that male circumcision would be part of an argument that one has the power to do what one wants to those powerless to defend themselves. Again, I seem to have missed the point.

The only help that comes to mind is to say a prayer for you and your friend. I will include some for myself.

 

[TimothyH]

I just got into an discussion with an atheist who claimed that the only way to have an truly moral society which would be secular included individual euthanasia (since people should have the right to decide how they die and totally would not extend to the mentally disabled) since religion uses God in the OT to justify male circumcisum and slavery of foreign people it’s in Leviticus 25:44 and 12:3 respectively. Please, someone help me.

God also commanded that every seven years all slaves be released. This was because the Israelites themselves had been slaves in Egypt. Because God had shown mercy on the Israelites by releasing them from bondage, they were to do likewise to their own slaves.

No other nation did this. It was a great act of mercy for the time.

And if anyone was owed money they were to be released from the debt every seven years.

-Tim-

 

[Nita]

I’m not arguing against faith, but if the Bible is truly God’s word then it must not contain any human words, or human interpretations. In other words it has to be purely what God wants said and taught and nothing more…

The Bible is inspired and contains what God wanted to be contained in it.
BUT,
it contains many human words. The books were written by humans.
it contains more than what God said. It contains words humans spoke – and some of what they spoke was contrary to God’s will.
it contains things that God did not teach.

Just a couple examples:Gen. 3:6 So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was to be desired to make one wise, (God did not teach or say this.)

Deut 24:1 "When a man takes a wife and marries her, if then she finds no favor in his eyes because he has found some indecency in her, and he writes her a bill of divorce and puts it in her hand and sends her out of his house, and she departs out of his house,…

 (As Jesus explains, this was not God's will regarding marriage. 
 Mt. 19:7 They said to him, "Why then did Moses command one to give a certificate of divorce, and to put her away?" 19:8 He said to them, "For your hardness of heart Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so.)

 

[MarcoPolo]

What do you mean…“morality has no meaning without God”?

You can’t mean people cannot be moral without God, because there are millions of people who have been and are moral without any God.

Even atheists who believe in the concept of justice or a “right” to free choice, etc. are recognizing something inscribed in the very creation, the very nature, of a human being, that a human being has a certain dignity. Whether they wish to concede the reality or not, their recognition of human dignity is rooted in the very value of man who was created by God.

 

[Rau]

Even atheists who believe in the concept of justice or a “right” to free choice, etc. are recognizing something inscribed in the very creation, the very nature, of a human being, that a human being has a certain dignity. Whether they wish to concede the reality or not, their recognition of human dignity is rooted in the very value of man who was created by God.

Perhaps the atheist recognises sentience as conferring rights and obligations? Why does the atheist need to admit God into the debate?

 

[MarcoPolo]

Perhaps the atheist recognises sentience as conferring rights and obligations? Why does the atheist need to admit God into the debate?

The atheist might not admit God. But the atheist may well say that, but what about sentience is valuable? Somewhere, the atheist must recognize a personal dignity in himself, in his very created being.

 

[StrawberryJam]

Without God there is no Lawgiver and therefore no moral standard to tell us what is really right or wrong. In a purely secular world there is no " morality, " all actions no matter how heinous are equally valid. So called " morality " is such a world is determined by whoever possesses the most and more powerful guns. And it really is that simple. Secularists may spin all the nicest throries about morality they wish, but without God, it is the gun than wins.

Linus2nd

Without those who deny God, we wouldn’t have horrible things happening like they have been from the time of Cain.

Non believers are the cause of all natural disasters, diseases and all horrors.

 

[kentuckyliz]

Slavery in the OT is nothing like the racial chattel slavery such as practiced in US history. The rights of slaves are also defined in Leviticus. There are provisions for release from slavery, including the Jubilee restoration.

The word “slavery” is so charged in our culture, that biblical translators use “servant” instead of “slave” in the New Testament. Same goes for the word “holocaust” since the Shoah.

Regarding euthanasia–it violates the Hippocratic oath and changes the relationship between doctor and patient. In the Netherlands, 1/4 of euthanasia is without the consent of the patient. That means others can coerce euthanasia on someone, and doctors can choose it independently of the patient or the family. Doctors also exercise independent decisions about killing newborns with disabilities.

In the UK, senior citizens are afraid to go to the hospital because they are afraid they will get Liverpooled. My maternal grandmother was Liverpooled when she didn’t have a terminal condition. This is frighteningly common. (google Liverpool Protocol)

So your atheist has faulty morality. I would never vote for a candidate that espoused such positions.