How can God (Jesus) physically live amongst sinners when there is no sin in heaven

[GodHeals]

Hi,

1. Jesus is sinless (God). How can He live amongst us sinners when there is no sin in heaven and sin separates us from God. Yet Jesus was physically present and a friend of sinners on earth. It seems we learn that there is no sin in the presence of God. Was just a thought… that i haven’t thought much about yet.
2. If Jesus is God and scriptures talk about not seeing God face to face. How is this possible?

Thanks!
Brian

 

[Spencerian]

Hi,

1. Jesus is sinless (God). How can He live amongst us sinners when there is no sin in heaven and sin separates us from God. Yet Jesus was physically present and a friend of sinners on earth. It seems we learn that there is no sin in the presence of God. Was just a thought… that i haven’t thought much about yet.
2. If Jesus is God and scriptures talk about not seeing God face to face. How is this possible?

Thanks!
Brian

Hi.

Mark 2:13-17 has one answer for you, from Christ Himself. The Lord is criticized by Pharisees (mere *men *who shunned those they thought were sinful) for keeping company with those the Pharisees thought were sinful.

Once again he went out along the sea. All the crowd came to him and he taught them. As he passed by,* he saw Levi, son of Alphaeus, sitting at the customs post. He said to him, “Follow me.” And he got up and followed him. While he was at table in his house,* many tax collectors and sinners sat with Jesus and his disciples; for there were many who followed him. Some scribes who were Pharisees saw that he was eating with sinners and tax collectors and said to his disciples, “Why does he eat with tax collectors and sinners?” *Jesus heard this and said to them [that], “Those who are well do not need a physician, but the sick do. I did not come to call the righteous but sinners.” **

It is through the Incarnation that God brought his Church to earth, his ministry. Christ was a physician, and He couldn’t heal the sick (the sinners) without making that house call. God chose not to stay an invisible presence to his people but to give them a sign that He is real and loving, right up to giving Himself for sacrifice.

It wasn’t that we could not see God “face to face” but that, prior to Christ, the true face of God without the trappings of a human image was something no man could ever withstand, for no mere man was worthy to do so. I’m sure there is Scriptural support for this but time does not allow me to find this at the moment.

 

[JRKH]

Hi,

1. Jesus is sinless (God). How can He live amongst us sinners when there is no sin in heaven and sin separates us from God. Yet Jesus was physically present and a friend of sinners on earth. It seems we learn that there is no sin in the presence of God. Was just a thought… that i haven’t thought much about yet.

Is it possible to be in a room full of people and still feel alone?
Is it possible to be among sinners and still not sin?

It is True that Jesus walked among sinners and even befriended them with truth and in love. I believe that in one of the Epistles is a line that we must be in the world but not “of” the world.

Not sure if this helps your thought process any, but thought I’d toss it out.

1. If Jesus is God and scriptures talk about not seeing God face to face. How is this possible?

Christ becomes that Bridge for us.
Remember that in the Garden, Adam walked with God, but after the fall, Adam and Eve “Hid from God” - Jesus came to restore us so that we may again, walk with God.

Thanks!
Brian

You are welcome

 

[piejesu]

The hypostatic union is a mystery.

 

[MarcoPolo]

Heaven is real unity with God, a mysterious fusion where many become one in Him. The Incarnate Jesus in physical proximity to evil, like the devil in the desert, involves no such union.

 

[Mintaka]

Matter and space/time have different properties than eternity does.

God made matter and time/space more robust in separating cause and effect (ie, not everything happens at once, but first one thing and then another). In eternity, to think it is to always have thought it and always have done it.

Also, we’re made of matter and so is the material universe; and there’s usually less instant obvious moral effect on matter than on pure spirit (which is what the angels are made of).

In the end, the new Heaven and the new Earth will “marry” time/space and eternity, in some way that’s not easy to conceive. Your guess is as good as mine as to how this will work; but then, I’m not God and I don’t create things out of nothing, either.

 

[fhansen]

That’s the point of and reason for the Incarnation.

“Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous person, though for a good person someone might possibly dare to die. 8 But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.” Rom 5:7-9

 

[GodHeals]

Heaven is real unity with God, a mysterious fusion where many become one in Him. The Incarnate Jesus in physical proximity to evil, like the devil in the desert, involves no such union.

This somewhat helps. Thanks!

 

[GodHeals]

Is it possible to be in a room full of people and still feel alone?
Is it possible to be among sinners and still not sin?

It is True that Jesus walked among sinners and even befriended them with truth and in love. I believe that in one of the Epistles is a line that we must be in the world but not “of” the world.

Not sure if this helps your thought process any, but thought I’d toss it out.

Christ becomes that Bridge for us.
Remember that in the Garden, Adam walked with God, but after the fall, Adam and Eve “Hid from God” - Jesus came to restore us so that we may again, walk with God.

You are welcome

Thanks for your help. I think I was thinking along the lines of there not being sin in heaven (with God). If there were, then people wouldn’t go to hell, but allowed to be in the presence of God even as a sinner. And since Jesus is God, he couldn’t be in the presence of sin on earth.

Also, I think scripture says there is battle going on in heaven between Saints and Angels as we speak, which means there is sin in heaven right now, right??? Even in the presence of God? I heard the first heaven is the sky, second is outer space, and third is with God, LIKE the third heaven Paul said someone (some say it was him) was caught up in. Thanks!

 

[GodHeals]

Matter and space/time have different properties than eternity does.

God made matter and time/space more robust in separating cause and effect (ie, not everything happens at once, but first one thing and then another). In eternity, to think it is to always have thought it and always have done it.

Also, we’re made of matter and so is the material universe; and there’s usually less instant obvious moral effect on matter than on pure spirit (which is what the angels are made of).

In the end, the new Heaven and the new Earth will “marry” time/space and eternity, in some way that’s not easy to conceive. Your guess is as good as mine as to how this will work; but then, I’m not God and I don’t create things out of nothing, either.

Hi, I think Jimmy Akin said that even though time is eternal, things still have an order of process. He did a good short question on it.

Interesting comment on moral effect of sin on matter (humans) and spirit/soul verses only spirit.

Thanks!

 

[loozcannon]

Thanks for your help. I think I was thinking along the lines of there not being sin in heaven (with God). If there were, then people wouldn’t go to hell, but allowed to be in the presence of God even as a sinner. And since Jesus is God, he couldn’t be in the presence of sin on earth.

You are correct, there is no sin in Heaven. People jeapordize their salvation by choosing to sin. If they aren’t reconciled with God and His Church, then they go to hell, or perhaps purgatory.

You also have to remember that He is not bound by his own rules. So if God decides to make Himself known, he’ll do it!

Also, I think scripture says there is battle going on in heaven between Saints and Angels as we speak, which means there is sin in heaven right now, right??? Even in the presence of God? I heard the first heaven is the sky, second is outer space, and third is with God, LIKE the third heaven Paul said someone (some say it was him) was caught up in. Thanks!

On this point, again, there is NO sin in Heaven. Period. Dot. If there were sin in Heaven, then why did Christ die on the cross to pay for our sins?

And I’m not familiar with the levels of Heaven. My meager understanding is that Heaven is Heaven. Essentially, either you’re in the presence of God, or you’re not.

Peace, and God bless!

 

[loozcannon]

Oh, and by the way, I don’t think one stays “Almost Catholic” for long.

 

[Donna_P]

Hi,

1. Jesus is sinless (God). How can He live amongst us sinners when there is no sin in heaven and sin separates us from God. Yet Jesus was physically present and a friend of sinners on earth. It seems we learn that there is no sin in the presence of God. Was just a thought… that i haven’t thought much about yet.
2. If Jesus is God and scriptures talk about not seeing God face to face. How is this possible?

Thanks!
Brian

Just as Jesus said, you wouldn’t go to the Doctor unless you were sick. So Jesus is our Great Physician come to heal the sick!

Mark 2: 16-17
16 And the scribes of the Pharisees, when they saw that he was eating with sinners and tax collectors, said to his disciples, “Why does he eat with tax collectors and sinners?” 17 And when Jesus heard it, he said to them, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick; I came not to call the righteous, but sinners.”

 

[GodHeals]

Oh, and by the way, I don’t think one stays “Almost Catholic” for long.

Thanks for your posts

So you are Catholic Christian? Here is a new one, I am a practicing Catholic who doesn’t call myself Catholic… sad but true. Maybe it is an intellectual dying to self and learning to fully trust the Pope and Magisterium, Jesus ONE HOLY APOSTOLIC CHURCH THAT HE FOUNDED ON EARTH.

I was raised Catholic, and always went to mass more than twice a year(but one year may have been to more Protestant services than Masses). But i called myself an evangelical protestant and have told people that. One Priest said if your not Catholic, the Pope is not Catholic. I do think I am personally more Catholic than most Catholics, that is those who claim the faith, but don’t attend mass at least weekly or seek God / Pray outside of Sunday Mass at any level. Another Priest told me that i will never know everything. I feel i need to know everything in order to be FULLY Catholic and embrace the Church. God is working on my heart though.

Don’t pray that you might understand, but that you might have faith to understand. I once recall hearing. Please say a prayer for me!

 

[GodHeals]

Just as Jesus said, you wouldn’t go to the Doctor unless you were sick. So Jesus is our Great Physician come to heal the sick!

Mark 2: 16-17
16 And the scribes of the Pharisees, when they saw that he was eating with sinners and tax collectors, said to his disciples, “Why does he eat with tax collectors and sinners?” 17 And when Jesus heard it, he said to them, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick; I came not to call the righteous, but sinners.”

Not sure how that pertains to my question, maybe i am not thinking right, right now.

BUT, it surely was good to read those scriptures that we need to reach out and love God and our neighbors. Often so many are forgotten and left alone by most of the world busy with their lives. May God grant us the grace to take that extra step to not be afraid to befriend those who need Jesus, who are truly sick. Well, in that sense, it is all people, including the more independent functional people in the world blinded by their sins, who need Jesus the GREAT PHYSICIAN. I have been just blessed with suffering to have a little bit more compassion and love than most for the spiritually, psychologically / emotionally, physically sick. And it is still difficult for me to spend time getting to know some of those people better in the younger aged nursing home that I visit.

God Bless YOU!

 

[loozcannon]

Thanks for your posts

So you are Catholic Christian? Here is a new one, I am a practicing Catholic who doesn’t call myself Catholic… sad but true. Maybe it is an intellectual dying to self and learning to fully trust the Pope and Magisterium, Jesus ONE HOLY APOSTOLIC CHURCH THAT HE FOUNDED ON EARTH.

I was raised Catholic, and always went to mass more than twice a year(but one year may have been to more Protestant services than Masses). But i called myself an evangelical protestant and have told people that. One Priest said if your not Catholic, the Pope is not Catholic. I do think I am personally more Catholic than most Catholics, that is those who claim the faith, but don’t attend mass at least weekly or seek God / Pray outside of Sunday Mass at any level. Another Priest told me that i will never know everything. I feel i need to know everything in order to be FULLY Catholic and embrace the Church. God is working on my heart though.

Don’t pray that you might understand, but that you might have faith to understand. I once recall hearing. Please say a prayer for me!

Very welcome for those posts!

And to answer your question; my mind is made up to be Catholic and I’m going through RCIA as we speak. I was raised and baptized a Baptist. Some may say “bible based.”

My responses to you are speaking from my own humble experiences and I hope they were able to help you.

There’s a saying that fits those folks you’re talking about and I’m sure I’ll ruin it, but you’ll get the gist. Something like “Sitting in a pew on Sunday doesn’t make you a Christian anymore than sleeping in a garage makes you a car.” That may not be in verbatim, but you get the idea.

Truth be told, I sincerely WISH I could call myself a Catholic, but I cannot do so yet. You are very fortunate to have inherited such a faith. I had to make my own journey.

God bless you!