How can he preach, lest he be sent!

[fulloftruth]

I have been reading St Frances DeSales. I have never heard the argument he puts forth as his first refutation of the protestant rebellion. “The Mission”
In short he asks, Where do these new preachers, get the authority to preach the gospel. You must be sent either mediately or immediately. After looking through scripture, he’s right, of course. Every single person in scripture was either sent directly by God (directly or by angel), ie, Moses, Abraham, John the baptist, etc… or by the one God or the Angel has sent. In every case you have either a direct mission by God or the one he has placed over them. The mission, through the laying on of hands, securing that they don’t teach any different doctrine, that they raise up trustworthy men who in turn can teach others, check out these verses( 1 Tim 4:16, 2 Tim 2:2,
1 Cor 4:17, Heb 5:4 & 6:2,) there are so many more…1 Tim 3:15, Matt 16:18, & 18:18… how can you ignore the need for laying on of hand and the need to be sent, how can I understand lest someone teaches me. There is only one way to become a minister of God, you can’t send yourself, you must be sent by the unbroken spritual blood line as estabolished when God breathed on them and said whosoever sins you forgive they are foregiven then and …retain…Keys to the kingdom, binding and loosing…God himself said this.

I’ve heard it said that the Scripture is “God Breathed” and therefore unequaled in authority. I think the Protestant rebellors did have it right when they said Gods very Breath has infinite authority. Does anyone else find it amazing that, at the great Co-“Mission” God “Breathed” on them and said receive the Holy Spirit. Did he not extend his Breath to his earthly ministers saying he who hears you hears me.

I ask all Rebellors, who sent you or your minister? God, an Angel, and Apostle or one sent by an Apostle…Who??? Dont teach any different doctrine. I came to bear witness to the truth… I am the Truth…how can the spirit lead us on so many differing directions on such important issues…who decides what the truth is…Scripture can’t…and its not a matter of man missusing a perfect authority because then your saying God left us orphans to be tossed to and fro with every wind of doctrine…He did not…you dont throw Jimmy in the stove…you square your mind with the Church Christ estabolished as Beacon on a hill that cannot be hid…

 

[blazerdave]

“Protestant rebellors?” I take it you’re not a big fan of non-Catholic ministry?

 

[fulloftruth]

I just think we should call a spade a spade and If your Catholic and you believe the split was a grevious sin of men and that true reform was done from within the Church, a Church that supposedly handed on enough of the truth to have Martin Luther be able to get ahold of it 1500 years later, than they weren’t reformers but as St fances says, rebellors. Not personal just theological rebbellors, but as the Church teaches it is worse to pluck a soul from heaven than a body from earth.

 

[Darian]

Luk 9:49 And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out demons in thy name; and we forbade him, because he followeth not with us.
Luk 9:50 But Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against you is for you.

This individual recognized and Jesus confirmed that the authority lay not in the sending but in the message.

Act 11:19 They therefore that were scattered abroad upon the tribulation that arose about Stephen travelled as far as Phoenicia, and Cyprus, and Antioch, speaking the word to none save only to Jews.
Act 11:20 But there were some of them, men of Cyprus and Cyrene, who, when they were come to Antioch, spake unto the Greeks also, preaching the Lord Jesus.
Act 11:21 And the hand of the Lord was with them: and a great number that believed turned unto the Lord.
Again, these people were not sent specifically to teach and preach, but as a result of their fleeing persecution in Jerusalem they took the opportunity to teach all with whom they came in contact. The authority lay not in the sending but in the message.

In Acts 18 we are introduced to Apollos, and to the interaction he had with Aquila and Priscilla.
Act 18:24 Now a certain Jew named Apollos, an Alexandrian by race, an eloquent man, came to Ephesus; and he was mighty in the scriptures.
Act 18:25 This man had been instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in spirit, he spake and taught accurately the things concerning Jesus, knowing only the baptism of John:
Act 18:26 and he began to speak boldly in the synagogue. But when Priscilla and Aquila heard him, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more accurately.
Act 18:27 And when he was minded to pass over into Achaia, the brethren encouraged him, and wrote to the disciples to receive him: and when he was come, he helped them much that had believed through grace;
Act 18:28 for he powerfully confuted the Jews, and that publicly, showing by the scriptures that Jesus was the Christ.
Who sent Apollos out without the full truth? Who sent Aquila and Priscilla? By what authority did they correct Apollos? Apollos was not reprimanded for preaching, but Aquila and Priscilla recognized the error in his message and corrected him, after which he went on preaching the Good News with a greater understanding of it. Again the authority lay not in the sending but in the message.

 

[fulloftruth]

First I need to apologize for my tone at the outset of this thread. I had just listened to a James White debate and was a little jaded. No discussion on the topic of Christ should be snide.

1. Just because Christ allows certain people to preach and cast out demons in his name (Luke 9:49-50) does not mean that was the normative means in which he would grow his Church.

Those that were scattered came from the only place where Christians were, Jerusalem, and as Acts chapter 15 shows us, the peridigm Christ set up was followed to the T. “If you brother sins against you, go and tell him,…2 or 3… if he will not listen…tell it to the church… and if he will not listen to the church… let him be anathama…excommunicated etc…When no small disputation arose among them they called for Paul and Barnabas (2 or 3) and when they could not settle it they took it to the Church…And the Church with Peter as the head…Protos… Chief…said” God chose amongst you…that by my voice…no distinction be made between us and them…but cleansed there heart by faith(and they were also all Baptized if you recall)…Now therefore why do you make trial of God and put a yoke upon the disciples…But we believe that we should e saved by the grace of the Lord…and they all fell silent…

James simply makes a pastoral decision, being from Jerusalem, not to scandalize the Jews who were coming into the church…Peters decree stood and is the only decree still standing today. James pastoral decisions were simply customs under the old law that were temporarily held over. Peters Decree on Gentiles still stands today…It will be taken from you and given to a people yeilding ts fruit."

1 Cor. 10-13, Gal 1:6-9, Jn 15:4-7, Jn 17:20-26, Mt 28:19-20, …There are about 50 more all saying that the apostles were given the authority to speak for Christ, and that they were a holy priesthood with the power to bind and loose, forgive sins, baptize, heal and preach. Also the church is the pillar and foundation of truth, not scripture. The church has the power of excommunication. Christs prayer was for unity of mind spirit and doctrine, and St paul says the same. If there are those that preach differently they must be rebuked and if they will not listen the"The Holy Spirit and We" they are excommunicated. If differing interpretations are a minor thing to be debated and if you can’t agree you do the “healing” thing and break off and start a new, more faithful to the Word,church, then why is there excommunication. Who has the power today to bind someone to hell. How can we be One flock, one fold and a city set on a hill with one mind of doctrine, truth is what Christ is and testifies to. That means someone on earth has to do the terrible thing of actually standing for a particular interpretation of certain scripture verses. For some reason protestants hate that the Church has defined 8 verses of Scripture with absolute certainty. Not eliminating other interpretations as long as they do not deny the defined interpretation, so the faithful be not tossed to and fro… so the proper contect can be attained and so we be not scandalous and so we do not lose credibility in the eyes of those who we are preaching to. Scripture cannot contradict itself, Yet James says we are not saved by faith alone.

I am sorry but I have to go right now but i will continue later if I can…