How can i be happy in heaven knowing my beloved brother is suffering forever in hell?

[Stylteralmaldo]

"St Francis:

The reason we will be happy in Heaven despite our loved one’s being in Hell is that we will see God’s justice and understand. We will see that this person will have formed his soul away from God and he would be just as if not more miserable with God than he is in Hell.

This pretty much sums up my position. Hell would actually be more desirable for the brother than him being with God.

Hell is Dogma There will be people in Hell.

Hell is Dogma in that it exists. It doesn’t mean that there will be people there. Christ says that unrepentant evil-doers will be in hell. However, it is possible that the only ones that will be there are those of satan and his demons since we do not know whether each and every person at that last instant of life converted. Nonetheless, we do not know if anyone who committed such evil did in fact repent of their evil ways so it is best to pray for all as our Lords asks of us.

 

[Robert_Burns]

This pretty much sums up my position. Hell would actually be more desirable for the brother than him being with God.

Hell is Dogma in that it exists. It doesn’t mean that there will be people there. Christ says that unrepentant evil-doers will be in hell. However, it is possible that the only ones that will be there are those of satan and his demons since we do not know whether each and every person at that last instant of life converted. Nonetheless, we do not know if anyone who committed such evil did in fact repent of their evil ways so it is best to pray for all as our Lords asks of us.

I disagree

scripturecatholic.com/hell.html

 

[PJM]

=beehumble;6985268]If I “make it” in through the narrow gate, I am promised eternal joy. But how can I be happy if my brother does not make it and is suffering abominable torments forever?

My dear friend in Christ.

Your qustion is human [secular], while the answer is Devine.

IF we are sufficiently Blesed to atttain heaven, all of our thoughts, [ALL OF THEM] will be on and about the Love and Mercy of our Divine Lord. We will have no other thoughts.

It is our souls, not our bodies that will attain heaven or hell for that matter. Our bodies will not be rejoined to our souls until the final Judgement. When God will permit all of us to understand the Wisdom of His Devine Justice.

At this point we will ALL be in COMPLETE AGREMENT with Devine Justice and understand fully the why’s that are puzzleing us now.

Keep in mind friend that it WE, not God who FREELY choose our place of eternal rest. God is Morally obligated to offer every human person sufficient grace to know, love and serve HIM. Many decline. It’s NOT God’s wish, it’s NOT God’s fault, it’s our free choice.

Pray for the conversion of sinners while there is still time to do so.

 

[Thoughtfulone]

Who do you love most?

GOD

or your Brother?

If your brother is in Hell - he is in Hell for one reason. He made himself an enemy of GOD and a Friend of Satan.

He has no one to blame but himself.

It isnt your fault and it isnt GOD’s Fault.

Its his fault.

Each of us is called upon to get to heaven and to put GOD first in all things. The Beautific Vision makes everything else unimportant. Whatever love we have for anything is nothing when compared to the love of GOD both from us and from him. The love we feel for anything in this life is nothing compared to the Love that comes from GOD to those that love him. Its an infinite love. Its not measured. I think sometimes that people forget what we are talking about when we talk about going to heaven. Heaven isnt like here.

I think this was uncalled for.

 

[Thoughtfulone]

Hell is Dogma in that it exists. It doesn’t mean that there will be people there. Christ says that unrepentant evil-doers will be in hell. However, it is possible that the only ones that will be there are those of satan and his demons since we do not know whether each and every person at that last instant of life converted. Nonetheless, we do not know if anyone who committed such evil did in fact repent of their evil ways so it is best to pray for all as our Lords asks of us.

Yes, this.

 

[phoenixrrt62]

If I “make it” in through the narrow gate, I am promised eternal joy. But how can I be happy if my brother does not make it and is suffering abominable torments forever?

Why do you think he is (or will be) in hell? Just wondering…
If it’s too personal, ignore my question…

I have a totally different thought on the concept of ‘hell’…but it’s not really my place to say.
I do hope that all works out for the best for you and your brother…you sound terribly distressed…and I am sorry…

 

[NeedImprovement]

Yes Hell exists, and yes, Hell is dogma.

But before embracing the overly utopian idea that there are no souls in Hell - only satan and the fallen angels exclusively , it would seem wise to note that Saints and visionaries who visited Hell always saw the souls of the damned. Among some who have seen Hell, we could mention the three children of Fatima, Saint Faustina Kowalska of the Divine Mercy, St. Theresa of Avila. All of them saw souls of the damned in Hell and could differentiate between them and the demons.

No…we aren’t bound to believe private revelation, but if our Mother thought it important enough to appear to us and tell us [Our Lady of Fatima] :

"Here you see Hell, where the souls of poor sinners go. To save them, God wishes to establish in the world devotion to my Immaculate Heart… Pray, pray a great deal and make sacrifices for sinners. So many souls go to Hell because there is no one to pray and sacrifice for them.” … I think we should listen.

And why, at Fatima, would She have given us that prayer we recite after each decade of the Rosary -
“O my Jesus, forgive us our sins.
Save us from the fires of Hell,
lead all souls to Heaven
especially those
in most need of thy mercy.”
… unless there was a real danger that we might end up in Hell ?

St. Alphonse Liguiori says, “The thought of Hell itself should be enough to deliver us from it.”

The accounts the aforementioned visionaries and Saints give of Hell are rather sobering and at the same time a little unsettling.

We shouldn’t take Hell lightly.

The OP doesn’t - I believe that’s why the thread was started.

 

[runningdude]

I know this is horrible to think of, but you are thinking of it in human terms. Yes, you love your brother, but the love you have for your brother pales in comparison to the love God has for you (and for him). Once you see God, once you experience the Beautific Vision, God’s love will so overwhelm you that you will not know sadness, fear, hurt or longing. You will see all your brothers and sisters in the clarity that God sees them, so, the best thing to do is to work to get yourself there and to bring along everyone else you touch.

Hell it total separation from God. Purgatory is for people who just need to be prepared for being with God in heaven, but will be in heaven nonetheless.

Purgatory might be an answer to the conundrum of feeling sadness for souls in hell. Yes the Beautific Vision is magnificent, but (please correct if I’m mistaken) those who look unworthily shall die?

Perhaps, while being prepared for the Face of God in Purgatory, one learns to let go of the past life, and accept the chosen fate of those who’s sins have condemned them to Hell.

We shouldn’t take Hell lightly.

The OP doesn’t [take Hell lightly]- I believe that’s why the thread was started.

I agree. My guess about answering the OP’s question is that one would rightly be saddened, but that God provides a time of healing so that one may come to experience everlasting Joy.

 

[mommamaree]

I want to offer two points that Father Barron made in a Word on Fire video.
1 - Catholics are not required to believe that any human souls will be in Hell. It is dogma that Hell exists, but we as Catholics may choose to trust in God’s mercy and hope for sinners to repent at the last moment of life. Only God knows what happens in a person’s heart as they experience physical death.

2 - Hell was created as an act of mercy. Out of mercy for those who would reject Him, God created Hell, a place where they might go to be entirely out of His presence. He gave us free will for a reason, so that we might freely choose Him. But if we, in our own free will, reject Him, even when stripped of our earthly blinders, He will not override that and force us to be with Him. He originally created it for Satan, who was in the glorious presence of God and still rejected him, but all other created beings with eternal souls may choose that for themselves, though it grieve God deeply.

I personally cling to my trust in God’s mercy, and hope for last-minute repentance of all sinners, so that we all may be together in Heaven. I do not believe that God will send any human soul to Hell, but I will acknowledge the possibility that some humans may ultimately decide they would rather choose eternal banishment with Satan than to be in God’s glorious presence. Sort of like those people that hate social gatherings because so many people are having fun and they would prefer to stew in their own misery.

 

[LittleSoldier]

If I “make it” in through the narrow gate, I am promised eternal joy. But how can I be happy if my brother does not make it and is suffering abominable torments forever?

It’s difficult to look at something divine as heaven with mortal human eyes. We can’t fully understand either heaven or hell until we pass on from this life.

But we do know that we can rely on the love of God. Everything God does is done from love. We also know that Lucifer did not want to be in heaven with God. So God, in His love, allowed Lucifer to be in a place away from Him.

I think the same is true with human beings. If we choose not to be with God we don’t have to be. But we also don’t know what happens when a person is dying. God is immensely merciful; our sins are like a drop of water in an endless sea.

I was very close to someone who committed an act which resulted in his death. I was told by Catholics, including a few priests, that this person had gone straight to hell. I couldn’t believe it and I still don’t. Nobody in the Church knows what happened when this person took his last breath. I know this person’s soul was and is precious and that he was not in his right mind when he did what he did. I honestly don’t know where he is but I am absolutely positive that God loves him and judged his actions with mercy.

When we reach heaven all our questions will be answered and all our concerns will be assuaged. We will be totally happy in the presence of God; in God Himself.

I think you are a very loving person to be concerned as you are. I hope and pray that God brings you peace.

 

[LittleSoldier]

What about purgatory? Instead of hell he could just spend an extra long time in purgatory being purified. What separates one from being sent to purgatory and hell anyway?

I believe a person goes to hell if he/she has a mortal sin on his/her soul that is not repented of or atoned for at the time of death. This is a sin against the Holy Spirit and will not be forgiven.

Those without mortal sins but not in a state of perfection go to Purgatory. Nothing imperfect can enter heaven because heaven is God and God is perfect - we must be purged of our sins. Once we are purified we go to heaven.

 

[tbcrawford]

Your brother is in God’s hands. Only God can judge souls, none of us really know the secrets of another’s heart. God will remember any kindness your brother has done, and God alone knows the true state of his spirit. God can save in the very last instant of life, unknown to us. Trust in God’s mercy

Of course Trishie’s response is the only one. ONLY GOD can judge souls.
Prayer for those who have died and gone before us is so important.
Speculation of any kind is not really relevant.Leave it to God as He alone knows the state of our soul.

 

[Zydel]

Read “The Great Divorce” by C. S. Lewis (a short and easy story). If someone is in hell, they don’t WANT to be in Heaven. We would have to drag them, kicking and screaming, into Heaven and then they would constantly be looking for a way to escape.

We tend to talk of God sending people to hell, in actuality people refuse Heaven.

I’ve been beaten to the punch, I see. Actually, I just finished C.S. Lewis’ The Great Divorce today, and although it’s far from a literal reality (after all, the entire thing has people visiting Heaven from Hell and having the choice to stay), it makes its point very clear. Those who are in Hell are there of their own wishes. Hell is a choice, and the souls of the damned would rather flee eternally from God than have to stand in His presence. I’m reminded of a quote (also by CSL) that hell is locked from the inside. That’s true in the sense that people choose to reject God, thereby throwing themselves into Hell (of course, it is not true in the sense that they could just walk out of Hell if they chose, and CSL isn’t claiming that). My point is that in Heaven, we will understand why it is the way it is. If you love your brother, then how much more does his Creator? Infinitely! Yet, God’s mercy does not extend to those who will not take it, and His justice will prevail.

People will go to Hell. They will choose themselves over God. They will face the eternal torment. They who are above in Heaven will understand exactly why it must be the way it is. All we can do in the present, where time exists, is work out our own salvation with fear and trembling, and try our best to be good Christian models (by God’s grace) to aid God’s extension of grace to others.

 

[LittleSoldier]

I’ve been beaten to the punch, I see. Actually, I just finished C.S. Lewis’ The Great Divorce today, and although it’s far from a literal reality (after all, the entire thing has people visiting Heaven from Hell and having the choice to stay), it makes its point very clear. Those who are in Hell are there of their own wishes. Hell is a choice, and the souls of the damned would rather flee eternally from God than have to stand in His presence. I’m reminded of a quote (also by CSL) that hell is locked from the inside. That’s true in the sense that people choose to reject God, thereby throwing themselves into Hell (of course, it is not true in the sense that they could just walk out of Hell if they chose, and CSL isn’t claiming that). My point is that in Heaven, we will understand why it is the way it is. If you love your brother, then how much more does his Creator? Infinitely! Yet, God’s mercy does not extend to those who will not take it, and His justice will prevail.

People will go to Hell. They will choose themselves over God. They will face the eternal torment. They who are above in Heaven will understand exactly why it must be the way it is. All we can do in the present, where time exists, is work out our own salvation with fear and trembling, and try our best to be good Christian models (by God’s grace) to aid God’s extension of grace to others.

That is the point. Definitely. Just like Lucifer, they do not want to be with God. So why would a loving God force them to stay with Him for eternity? Answer: He wouldn’t.

I think the parable of the goats and sheep is relevant here. It is our actions on earth that determine what we want. Whatever we do to the least of Christ’s brothers we do to Him.

 

[Monty61]

I once heard a homily by an outstanding FSSP priest on the Gospel of the workers in the vineyard. The master sent his assistant out to find workers. Some started in the morning and worked all day. Some started later and worked only a small part of the day. Yet, they all received the same pay.

Of course, the workers who started early complained that the late starters received the same reward. One of the lessons from this, Father said, was that we should never give up praying for those who seem not to be working long for their reward, because the reward is still possible for them. I hope your brother is still alive and pray with you that he will repent of his sins soon.

 

[trophybearer]

How is it that not one person has considered that by “brother” the OP might simply mean another human being? Don’t you consider your fellow man your “brother”? It certainly makes a lot more sense thanassumimg the OP meant a literal brother. I read it as meaning, “how can I be happy in heaven knowing that people are suffering in hell?”

 

[Robert_Burns]

I think this was uncalled for.

Why? Discussing the Reality of Hell is better than saying nothing while people die in their sins and wind up there when they could have avoided going there.

Sure - no one wants to think of the reality of Hell - Separation from GOD and Eternal Punishment.

But Hell is reality. Right now there are millions of Souls there and will be there for eternity.

But look at it this way - the reason they are there is that they made themselves enemies of GOD.

GOD is infinitely just. He doesnt send people there for no reason. Suffice to say - everyone who is in Hell deserves to be there because ONLY GOD can damn a soul to Hell.

You may not like me talking about it - But I for one trust GOD’s Judgement over anyones judgement in this forum. And since only GOD can send a soul to hell - its obvious they deserve to be there in HIS judgement.

What else has to be said.

Pax

 

[LittleSoldier]

How is it that not one person has considered that by “brother” the OP might simply mean another human being? Don’t you consider your fellow man your “brother”? It certainly makes a lot more sense thanassumimg the OP meant a literal brother. I read it as meaning, “how can I be happy in heaven knowing that people are suffering in hell?”

Well, actually that is what I thought it meant. I guess it is a bit ambiguous. I wonder why the OP hasn’t clarified?

 

[NeedImprovement]

Either way it sits very well as a presented ideal :

In the first instance , the OP is uneasy about the final destination of his ( biological or adopted [if you insist] ) brother.

In the second instance, the concern shown by the OP and some of our fellow members for his salvation, treat the person in question as if he really were the OP’s brother who had grown up under the same roof. It’s a prime example of how things are meant to be in the spiritual order.

And if that concern brings forth prayer or spurs us on to pray for others, as St. Monica’s solicitude brought forth prayer for St. Augustine (that dear St. Monica prayed, fasted and wept roughly10 years for her son- God bless her ), then it is bearing very good fruit.

 

[Thoughtfulone]

Why? Discussing the Reality of Hell is better than saying nothing while people die in their sins and wind up there when they could have avoided going there.

Sure - no one wants to think of the reality of Hell - Separation from GOD and Eternal Punishment.

But Hell is reality. Right now there are millions of Souls there and will be there for eternity.

But look at it this way - the reason they are there is that they made themselves enemies of GOD.

GOD is infinitely just. He doesnt send people there for no reason. Suffice to say - everyone who is in Hell deserves to be there because ONLY GOD can damn a soul to Hell.

You may not like me talking about it - But I for one trust GOD’s Judgement over anyones judgement in this forum. And since only GOD can send a soul to hell - its obvious they deserve to be there in HIS judgement.

What else has to be said.

Pax

Because if the OP is actually grieving the loss of his/her brother (not sure) then I think your words were harsh and unproductive. The poster was asking a philosophical question about the nature of Heaven and you basically came back with, “If your brother is burning in Hell forever he obviously deserves it.” I think that was unkind and very insensitive.