How can I convert if I'm secular?

[flufflepuff]

I was told by one of the nuns that i’m converting. How is this possible when i’ve been secular? What is there to convert to? This makes no sense to me. If I worshiped a cherry pie then yeah I could say I’ve converted from pie worship to Christianity, but how do you convert when you worshiped nothing at all?

 

[HelenRose]

If you did not believe in God and now you do believe in God and believe that Christianity is the answer you are converting from atheism to Christianity.
More seriously though, Catholics believe that conversion has an even deeper meaning. It is the turning away from ourselves toward God.

There may be a moment when a person suddenly realizes that he has been wrong about not believing in God and that is a moment of conversion from disbelieve to belief.

But for someone who already believes and is striving to be closer to God, one makes many changes (conversions) all their lives. It is a constant desire for God.

 

[flufflepuff]

If you did not believe in God and now you do believe in God and believe that Christianity is the answer you are converting from atheism to Christianity.
More seriously though, Catholics believe that conversion has an even deeper meaning. It is the turning away from ourselves toward God.

There may be a moment when a person suddenly realizes that he has been wrong about not believing in God and that is a moment of conversion from disbelieve to belief.

But for someone who already believes and is striving to be closer to God, one makes many changes (conversions) all their lives. It is a constant desire for God.

I started believing in God a few years ago, but my idea of God was some cold, distant being who doesn’t care that people just slaughter eachother and laughs at the misfortune of fools, and even then the belief was pretty weak.
I still don’t see how you can convert to something when your beliefs in something else were so scant.

 

[Denise1957]

I started believing in God a few years ago, but my idea of God was some cold, distant being who doesn’t care that people just slaughter eachother and laughs at the misfortune of fools, and even then the belief was pretty weak.
I still don’t see how you can convert to something when your beliefs in something else were so scant.

I’m not sure I’m following your train of thought here. Are you saying that in order to convert to Catholicism, you should have previously at least believed in something, and should therefore be converting from one thing to another?

To perhaps phrase it another way…do you believe in what the Church teaches, but can’t see how you can, since you didn’t have any previous belief, or something like that? I know that it can be difficult to describe what one is feeling about these things. That was the case when I converted, too.

 

[flufflepuff]

I’m not sure I’m following your train of thought here. Are you saying that in order to convert to Catholicism, you should have previously at least believed in something, and should therefore be converting from one thing to another?

To perhaps phrase it another way…do you believe in what the Church teaches, but can’t see how you can, since you didn’t have any previous belief, or something like that?

Bits and pieces of what the church teaches I agree with, some things not so much. THe things I don’t agree with I just keep my mouth shut over, but other things such as rejection of American style materialism i’m all for.

Yeah thats it, when I think conversion I think of one belief to another, I never had that. I never believed in anything to that degree, I just never cared since I had no real background growing up.

 

[HelenRose]

I started believing in God a few years ago, but my idea of God was some cold, distant being who doesn’t care that people just slaughter eachother and laughs at the misfortune of fools, and even then the belief was pretty weak.
I still don’t see how you can convert to something when your beliefs in something else were so scant.

We may be having a semantic problem here. Words have so many different shade of meanings depending on how they are used. If you are used to thinking in terms of converting inches to metric or quarts to gallons and so on, I can see where you are having a problem understanding the meaning of the word conversion in language of religion.

Let me approach this from a different direction. A person may change his or her beliefs or ideas about something but not necessarily be converted.

You may come to the conclusion that God is loving and forgiving but there may not be a conversion in your heart to love and forgiveness. If on the other hand by learning about God’s love and forgiveness you are converted to become a more loving and more forgiving person there is a change within your heart.

The change from one to the other is within your heart.

Within the language of the Church conversion is not a “this for that” kind of thing. It is a continual change from love of self to love of God.

In a more practical point of view: if you decide to become a Catholic you are converted from a non-Catholic into a Catholic.

 

[Denise1957]

Bits and pieces of what the church teaches I agree with, some things not so much. THe things I don’t agree with I just keep my mouth shut over, but other things such as rejection of American style materialism i’m all for.

Yeah thats it, when I think conversion I think of one belief to another, I never had that. I never believed in anything to that degree, I just never cared since I had no real background growing up.

Thanks for the explanation. Can you describe what it is that attracts you to Catholicism, and why you are drawn to it?

 

[HelenRose]

I was told by one of the nuns that i’m converting. How is this possible when i’ve been secular? What is there to convert to? This makes no sense to me. If I worshiped a cherry pie then yeah I could say I’ve converted from pie worship to Christianity, but how do you convert when you worshiped nothing at all?

Perhaps the nuns are seeing that you are becoming closer to God and are hoping that you will be able to continue to grow in faith. Perhaps they can see that your heart is changing toward a greater love in God.

They are probably using the word “converting” with a different meaning and connotation than you are used to.

 

[flufflepuff]

We may be having a semantic problem here. Words have so many different shade of meanings depending on how they are used. If you are used to thinking in terms of converting inches to metric or quarts to gallons and so on, I can see where you are having a problem understanding the meaning of the word conversion in language of religion.

Let me approach this from a different direction. A person may change his or her beliefs or ideas about something but not necessarily be converted.

You may come to the conclusion that God is loving and forgiving but there may not be a conversion in your heart to love and forgiveness. If on the other hand by learning about God’s love and forgiveness you are converted to become a more loving and more forgiving person there is a change within your heart.

The change from one to the other is within your heart.

Within the language of the Church conversion is not a “this for that” kind of thing. It is a continual change from love of self to love of God.

In a more practical point of view: if you decide to become a Catholic you are converted from a non-Catholic into a Catholic.

Thanks for the explanation. Can you describe what it is that attracts you to Catholicism, and why you are drawn to it?

Perhaps the nuns are seeing that you are becoming closer to God and are hoping that you will be able to continue to grow in faith. Perhaps they can see that your heart is changing toward a greater love in God.

They are probably using the word “converting” with a different meaning and connotation than you are used to.

Hmm, interesting. Yeah, i’ve never been the most forgiving type, but anymore it’s more of a sense of overall apathy. So it’s not just exchanging one thing for the other? That sounds complicated.

As far as what drew me, well, I’m not in the best situation, but it’s a lot better than what it was a few months ago. I’m in outpatient mental care and thought I would give God a try. I come from a bad family background, and never thought too much of protestants. So far they’ve been unable to stop a lot of families from falling to pieces and many times just stand by as family members just tear eachother appart.
THe fact that Priests take vows of poverty, are educated, and are anti-degeneracy is a big draw. Look at the garbage that so many other Christian branches put up with in the USA, the ideas that God wants you to be wealthy, yet what I know of Jesus seems to clash with all that.
Also, not only is the Catholic Church very forgiving, they are accepting. I’m still in outpatient therapy and trying to get my life back together after coming from a horrible mess that lasted a few years and to be honest they’re a much better option than an outpatient mental care facility. I’m actually welcome and not judged, something that would have happened with a lot of other American Christian organizations and it’s nice that the parishoners don’t have the drug problems a lot of mental patients do.
THe forgiving part is also amazing. I remember years ago a bunch of mormons vandalized a shrine in CO and while the mormon attitude was boys will be boys the Catholics there seemed to be forgiving. That to me was amazing.

 

[flufflepuff]

Perhaps the nuns are seeing that you are becoming closer to God and are hoping that you will be able to continue to grow in faith. Perhaps they can see that your heart is changing toward a greater love in God.

They are probably using the word “converting” with a different meaning and connotation than you are used to.

Mmmm, yeah I think so. I had some thug try to break into my car about a month ago and instead of just hoping the cops blow his head off I just wished for maybe a light thrashing then release. For me thats progress.

 

[Kephart]

I was told by one of the nuns that i’m converting. How is this possible when i’ve been secular? What is there to convert to? This makes no sense to me. If I worshiped a cherry pie then yeah I could say I’ve converted from pie worship to Christianity, but how do you convert when you worshiped nothing at all?

Perhaps you should ask the Nun exactly what she meant?

 

[ServusHumilis]

*Conversion
[kuh n-vur-zhuh n, -shuh n]

Noun

1. The act or process of converting; state of being converted.
2. Change in character, form, or function.
3. Spiritual change from sinfulness to righteousness.
4. Change from one religion, political belief, viewpoint, etc., to another.
5. A change of attitude, emotion, or viewpoint from one of indifference, disbelief, or antagonism to one of acceptance, faith, or enthusiastic support, especially such a change in a person’s religion.*

Make sense now?

 

[TimothyH]

Semantics.

 

[TarkanAttila]

I was told by one of the nuns that i’m converting. How is this possible when i’ve been secular? What is there to convert to? This makes no sense to me. If I worshiped a cherry pie then yeah I could say I’ve converted from pie worship to Christianity, but how do you convert when you worshiped nothing at all?

What did you consider the most important thing in the universe before God? Everyone who’s living thinks something is worth living for.

Conversion is when you recognise and turn to God as the most important thing in life, and make other things less important, because you know they are less important than God. Looks to me like you’re converting.

 

[flufflepuff]

Perhaps you should ask the Nun exactly what she meant?

Conversion
[kuh n-vur-zhuh n, -shuh n]

Noun

1. The act or process of converting; state of being converted.
2. Change in character, form, or function.
3. Spiritual change from sinfulness to righteousness.
4. Change from one religion, political belief, viewpoint, etc., to another.
5. A change of attitude, emotion, or viewpoint from one of indifference, disbelief, or antagonism to one of acceptance, faith, or enthusiastic support, especially such a change in a person’s religion.

Make sense now?

Semantics.

What did you consider the most important thing in the universe before God? Everyone who’s living thinks something is worth living for.

Conversion is when you recognise and turn to God as the most important thing in life, and make other things less important, because you know they are less important than God. Looks to me like you’re converting.

Hmmmm, guess I would be converting. Curious, what about the things the Catholic Church believes in? There are a few things I will absolutly not comply with.

Also, I guess the number one thing was well, me. I had a bad life, no one was there for me so I had to look out for myself, no one else would.

 

[TimothyH]

Hmmmm, guess I would be converting. Curious, what about the things the Catholic Church believes in? There are a few things I will absolutly not comply with.

Also, I guess the number one thing was well, me. I had a bad life, no one was there for me so I had to look out for myself, no one else would.

You are not the only one who had a bad life. My 4 1/2 year old daughter died in my arms in 1996 and my wife left me in 2007 to raise two other little girls by myself. That doesn’t change the fact that God is everything people say he is and the Church is everything it claims to be.

My personal circumstances don’t change the fact that God loved me so much that he became like me and died for me so that I could be like him. I don’t “comply” with anything. I do what Jesus says as best as I can because he died for me and I love him for that.

God gave us a Church to teach us His will and to help us get to heaven. I want to be with Jesus so I listen to the Church God gave us. The fact that I had a bad life means that it is more important to listen.

-Tim-

 

[HelenRose]

Hmmmm, guess I would be converting. Curious, what about the things the Catholic Church believes in? There are a few things I will absolutly not comply with.

Also, I guess the number one thing was well, me. I had a bad life, no one was there for me so I had to look out for myself, no one else would.

You are on a journey. Perhaps, instead of saying that there a things that you will absolutely not comply with, say, “I wonder why the Church teaches that because it makes no sense to me.”
Then study the rationale behind these teachings. Above all be honest with yourself and God. Christ does not want blind puppets to follow Him. He wants our minds and our hearts open to receive His love and the message of His good news.

He is patient and kind and will wait with open arms.

 

[TarkanAttila]

Hmmmm, guess I would be converting. Curious, what about the things the Catholic Church believes in? There are a few things I will absolutly not comply with.

Also, I guess the number one thing was well, me. I had a bad life, no one was there for me so I had to look out for myself, no one else would.

That’s not uncommon. A lot of people end up looking after themselves - I guess because everyone else in this country’s too busy looking after themselves, with no time for others. (Speaking for myself…)

Have you ever read a small book called “The Imitation of Christ” by Thomas a Kempis? If at least the basics of Catholicism - a God who loves us, came to Earth for us, and died for us, and that He’s worth listening to and following (even if you don’t agree about everything), this book will help you cut your ties from the things that are holding you back.

If something about our faith confuses you, please, do ask about it. We’d love to answer your questions. And we’ve got tons of material with which to do it. But here’s a secret: after you know God is God, you’ve got to will yourself to follow Him. He’ll do most of the work, but you’ve got to* want* Him to do it.

 

[flufflepuff]

You are not the only one who had a bad life. My 4 1/2 year old daughter died in my arms in 1996 and my wife left me in 2007 to raise two other little girls by myself. That doesn’t change the fact that God is everything people say he is and the Church is everything it claims to be.

My personal circumstances don’t change the fact that God loved me so much that he became like me and died for me so that I could be like him. I don’t “comply” with anything. I do what Jesus says as best as I can because he died for me and I love him for that.

God gave us a Church to teach us His will and to help us get to heaven. I want to be with Jesus so I listen to the Church God gave us. The fact that I had a bad life means that it is more important to listen.

-Tim-

You are on a journey. Perhaps, instead of saying that there a things that you will absolutely not comply with, say, “I wonder why the Church teaches that because it makes no sense to me.”
Then study the rationale behind these teachings. Above all be honest with yourself and God. Christ does not want blind puppets to follow Him. He wants our minds and our hearts open to receive His love and the message of His good news.

He is patient and kind and will wait with open arms.

That’s not uncommon. A lot of people end up looking after themselves - I guess because everyone else in this country’s too busy looking after themselves, with no time for others. (Speaking for myself…)

Have you ever read a small book called “The Imitation of Christ” by Thomas a Kempis? If at least the basics of Catholicism - a God who loves us, came to Earth for us, and died for us, and that He’s worth listening to and following (even if you don’t agree about everything), this book will help you cut your ties from the things that are holding you back.

If something about our faith confuses you, please, do ask about it. We’d love to answer your questions. And we’ve got tons of material with which to do it. But here’s a secret: after you know God is God, you’ve got to will yourself to follow Him. He’ll do most of the work, but you’ve got to* want* Him to do it.

See, thats where part of me would put my foot down and just refuse to comply. I do what is in my best interest first and formost. No one else did and yeah, sorry to hear about your loss and wife leaving you and that is why I have no intentions of marrying until the laws are changed. Someone told me once that’s just a challenge to change my character and I reply with what about the losses I would suffer? I say meet me on equal/equitable footing or forget it. Things in the USA are incredibly unfair nowadays considering what the courts like to do to men so I washed my hands of that stuff long ago.

You asked, so here are some issues I have. Birth control, won’t even go there I have and will continue to use it even if it means walking out the door. Not a fan of children, my life and interests come first and considering the costs of raising a kid in the USA and me not being family oriented in the least this is how I will do things no matter what.

Abortion. Had a thread about this once and yeah, while i’m not a fan of it i’m not going to interfere with what someone does with their life. They want to murder their infant so be it, I look at it as a mass of flesh. Know the Catholic Church sees differently, fine. I say lets do more for the poor and start voting for things like improved public education, better rehabilitation and most of all reform the family court system so kids aren’t caught in the crossfire when their parents decide to use them as pawns during their divorce.

Homosexuality, I have good friends who are gay and I will support them like the rest of the civilized world supports their own Homosexual/Lesbian population, end of story.

Sure this made me disliked by more than a few people, too bad. I dislike a good chunk of the American populace for how they act but I stand by the USA first and foremost then whatever religious body I join second. Reason I say that is one thread (might have been one I started) someone said that the person who started the thread was loyal to the USA first and the Catholic Church second and I sometimes wonder how many people here think that. That brings up my next point, where does your loyalty lie, the USA or the Catholic Church first? We fought England tooth and nail for the rights we have and way I see it their rights end where mine begin. Don’t like it? Too bad, that’s one of the things that made the USA different, the right to live the best way you know how, with God given rights that no king, religious leader or anyone else can take away.

 

[HelenRose]

See, thats where part of me would put my foot down and just refuse to comply. I do what is in my best interest first and formost. No one else did and yeah, sorry to hear about your loss and wife leaving you and that is why I have no intentions of marrying until the laws are changed. Someone told me once that’s just a challenge to change my character and I reply with what about the losses I would suffer? I say meet me on equal/equitable footing or forget it. Things in the USA are incredibly unfair nowadays considering what the courts like to do to men so I washed my hands of that stuff long ago.

You asked, so here are some issues I have. Birth control, won’t even go there I have and will continue to use it even if it means walking out the door. Not a fan of children, my life and interests come first and considering the costs of raising a kid in the USA and me not being family oriented in the least this is how I will do things no matter what.

Abortion. Had a thread about this once and yeah, while i’m not a fan of it i’m not going to interfere with what someone does with their life. They want to murder their infant so be it, I look at it as a mass of flesh. Know the Catholic Church sees differently, fine. I say lets do more for the poor and start voting for things like improved public education, better rehabilitation and most of all reform the family court system so kids aren’t caught in the crossfire when their parents decide to use them as pawns during their divorce.

Homosexuality, I have good friends who are gay and I will support them like the rest of the civilized world supports their own Homosexual/Lesbian population, end of story.

Sure this made me disliked by more than a few people, too bad. I dislike a good chunk of the American populace for how they act but I stand by the USA first and foremost then whatever religious body I join second. Reason I say that is one thread (might have been one I started) someone said that the person who started the thread was loyal to the USA first and the Catholic Church second and I sometimes wonder how many people here think that. That brings up my next point, where does your loyalty lie, the USA or the Catholic Church first? We fought England tooth and nail for the rights we have and way I see it their rights end where mine begin. Don’t like it? Too bad, that’s one of the things that made the USA different, the right to live the best way you know how, with God given rights that no king, religious leader or anyone else can take away.

Well, you are not compelled to become a Catholic. I can see that you are no longer asking for answers nor looking for the rationale for Catholic thinking. You are making your own statements as to why you cannot be a Catholic. I will respect you for your honesty and will agree with you that you are not yet in the frame of mind or heart to become a Catholic.

I will not try to explain the rationale for the Church’s teachings on these subjects. You can research these questions and answers by reading the Catechism of the Catholic Church, writings of Pope Benedict and St. John Paul . They express these teaching much better than I could. I wish you well on your journey.