How can I explain that homosexuality is wrong to a gay man?

[Anim8]

I’ve recently come into contact with someone who is openly gay, and see’s absolutely nothing wrong with it. He’s even wanting to debate the issue with me. He says “Love is love” and it doesn’t matter who you’re in love with. He keeps saying that gay marriage should be legal.

If it comes to a debate, how to I convince him that homosexuality is wrong?

 

[Mersenne]

probably the same way you explain to an astronaught that the earth is flat.

 

[TheGarg]

I’ve recently come into contact with someone who is openly gay, and see’s absolutely nothing wrong with it. He’s even wanting to debate the issue with me. He says “Love is love” and it doesn’t matter who you’re in love with. He keeps saying that gay marriage should be legal.

If it comes to a debate, how to I convince him that homosexuality is wrong?

you tell him the truth, that it is a sin becuase it is of selfish desire that goes against one, God first commandment to his people, to multiply and overcome the earth. no life can come of the homosexual act.

two, it is forbidden in Word of God, see leviticus and read about soddam and gomorah.

the key to telling the truth is, that you must tell it with the love and compassion of Christ. How would Jesus tell it? well he would just tell it, but there would be no mistaking the love in his eyes when He told you.

All of this hinges on your friends belief, faith, and willingness to serve the Lord.

scientifically, it is naturally wrong, going against the laws of nature, and it has never been proven to be a genetic condition. He has to be willing to do this research as well, for then it shows he has real interest in the truth.

It is not sinful to be a “homosexul” but it is a sin to practice it. It is his fight, as we all have our fights, some agains substances, some against Lust, gluttony, greed, pride…etc…

one is not worse than the other, but in his case, if he wants to serve the Lord and Obey Him, he must put this on the alter and remain chaste, if he doesn’t think he could work towards being attracted to women, which is possible, there are many support groups of “ex” gays that have made the transition and started families.

Peace of the Lord be with you.

 

[I_A]

Intercourse is an existential thing. We exist because our parents consummated their love in a physical way. If we talk about intercourse, we talk about our very origins.

In sexual union two are united in one act, to reach out of yourself, to reach for she outside of yourself, to reach for she who compliments you, to create a new living being together, to perpetuate the human race.

In so doing you are affirming the goodness of humanity, that you want to bring another life into this world. You as my spouse are the example of what is right, if there is a new life, I want her to be like you.

What does it mean to use somebody?

As Catholics its is never acceptable to use somebody as a means to an ends.

All contraceptive acts are about pleasure. (Homosexual acts by definition are contraceptive.) You are only a tool so I can receive erotic pleasure. I therefore reduce myself to merely a tool for your use to provide you erotic pleasure.

It is never acceptable to use someone as a means to another ends. This ends being a love of self and seeking to receive pleasure.

Homosexual acts in addition to being contraceptive seek what is the same. They seek what is like yourself. Rather than reaching out for that which is different you are reaching out to like yourself. You are reaching out to reach in.

Marriage is the union of man and woman. A large part of marriage is rearing children. In marriage you participate with God to create this new life. Now you must participate with God to help this new life grow. Now that this innocent child has been brought into this bright world he needs care, protection, and love. Marriage is about providing a stable environment for these children so they may grow up to be happy, healthy, and get to heaven. The fruit of the expression of love between man and woman is children. What is the fruit of homosexual acts?

And that’s not even getting into the theological side of things. This is just my understanding of things. I may be wrong but I present it to you as I understand it.

Of course he will not like it if you present it this way. Just be sure to present things in charity. If he gets your opinion its because he asked for it. You won’t be able to convince him then and there that homosexuality is wrong, he might be very offended that somebody disagrees with him. It will take God, but when hes alone thinking about things, he might begin thinking about your words. The most effective thing you can do is pray.

This is something that can be very sensitive because the subject is essential to our very being. We all came about through this act. Pray for him.

 

[hlmem]

You can’t

It is the same reason why people say do not talk about politics and religion on dates.

Peoples core values are important to them and nothing will change that.

The only thing that will change a persons core values is themselves.

All you can say is “I believe this” and maybe one day something you say will strike a cord with them

 

[JimG]

He says “Love is love” and it doesn’t matter who you’re in love with.

Love is love, doesn’t matter with who. Pedophiles and NAMBLA say the same thing. And doesn’t the same thing apply whether you’re in love with two or three of either sex at a time, or with children, or with someone else’s wife?

 

[blessedtoo]

I’ve recently come into contact with someone who is openly gay, and see’s absolutely nothing wrong with it. He’s even wanting to debate the issue with me. He says “Love is love” and it doesn’t matter who you’re in love with. He keeps saying that gay marriage should be legal.

If it comes to a debate, how to I convince him that homosexuality is wrong?

The definition of debate:

de·bate /dɪˈbeɪt/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[di-beyt] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation noun, verb, -bat·ed, -bat·ing.
–noun 1. a discussion, as of a public question in an assembly, involving opposing viewpoints: a debate in the Senate on farm price supports.
2. a formal contest in which the affirmative and negative sides of a proposition are advocated by opposing speakers.
3. deliberation; consideration.

Nowhere does it say the goal is to convince. If you approach him with this aim, you will not only fail, but you may truly anger him in the process. I do not debate my gay friends and relatives who believe there is “nothing wrong with it”. I live my life in conformity to Christ, hoping to set an example, and pray, pray, pray.

 

[punisherthunder]

You can’t tell the truth to people like that.

A woman where I work recently came out (she has her girlfriend picking her up at work all the time) as a lesbian. She sees nothing wrong with it and even has gone so far as to try and “persuade” it to , how I should say, a confused younger woman. She tells her it’s okay and uses the “love is love” thing.

Thats true that these kinds of people find love with each other. But it’s a love that has been twisted by Satan into something else.

Besides if this person doesn’t even believe in God (just like the woman at my job), then you can’t reason with them on any level.

 

[dorothy_smith]

scientifically, it is naturally wrong, going against the laws of nature, and it has never been proven to be a genetic condition. He has to be willing to do this research as well, for then it shows he has real interest in the truth.

Genetically?? I am not a scientist but I do know that some men and women are born gay. I mean to say that there are some men and women who are both ‘physically’ and mentally identifiable gay. Not by the way they dress nor by the way they behave but by their whole being. (clergy and religious included)

Now, is wrong for two people who are in love to have sex?? (I don’t mean clergy) It is not for me to judge. I, personally, might not like the thought of it, but then again, I am not gay.

 

[Seatuck]

Genetically?? I am not a scientist but I do know that some men and women are born gay. I mean to say that there are some men and women who are both ‘physically’ and mentally identifiable gay. Not by the way they dress nor by the way they behave but by their whole being. (clergy and religious included)

Now, is wrong for two people who are in love to have sex?? (I don’t mean clergy) It is not for me to judge. I, personally, might not like the thought of it, but then again, I am not gay.

How do you know that some men and women have been born with same sex attraction?

Do you “know” this? By doing research or going by the media?

The is really little evidence of the born with it theory at this point. It is just a minor theory that there is a biological reason for the attraction. The majority of the theories lie more towards the relationship of the child to his parents, sex abuse inappropriate sexual exposure , individual personality traits and other reasons. There is a diagnosis that occurs in chilhood called Gender Identity Disorder which can be treated sucessfully even if the cause is hormonal . Even if some people are born with it they should be getting treated for it and not encourage to live with a disorder.

narth.com/docs/pieces.html

cathmed.org/publications/homosexuality.htm

 

[Timidity]

Now, is [it] wrong for two people who are in love to have sex??

Yes, unless they’re husband and wife.

 

[Timidity]

Anim8:
If it comes to a debate, how to I convince him that homosexuality is wrong? As with everything, the only thing that makes something objectively right or wrong is “because God says so”. You have an almost impossible chance of convincing him that his lifestyle is wrong because you and he don’t share the same worldview.

If you truly want to “save” this man, don’t worry about his individual sins, just worry about the basics (There is a God; He loves you; He died for your sins; he offers you eternal life). If he becomes a believer, the rest will take care of itself.

 

[Sagefrakrobatik]

you tell him the truth, that it is a sin becuase it is of selfish desire that goes against one, God first commandment to his people, to multiply and overcome the earth. no life can come of the homosexual act.

two, it is forbidden in Word of God, see leviticus and read about soddam and gomorah.

the key to telling the truth is, that you must tell it with the love and compassion of Christ. How would Jesus tell it? well he would just tell it, but there would be no mistaking the love in his eyes when He told you.

All of this hinges on your friends belief, faith, and willingness to serve the Lord.

**scientifically, it is naturally wrong, going against the laws of nature, and it has never been proven to be a genetic condition. He has to be willing to do this research as well, for then it shows he has real interest in the truth. **
It is not sinful to be a “homosexul” but it is a sin to practice it. It is his fight, as we all have our fights, some agains substances, some against Lust, gluttony, greed, pride…etc…

one is not worse than the other, but in his case, if he wants to serve the Lord and Obey Him, he must put this on the alter and remain chaste, if he doesn’t think he could work towards being attracted to women, which is possible, there are many support groups of “ex” gays that have made the transition and started families.

Peace of the Lord be with you.

it depends on what are the “laws of nature” from which biological entities and process are we to use as modes to conduct are own behavior?

 

[setter]

it depends on what are the “laws of nature” from which biological entities and process are we to use as modes to conduct are own behavior?

Natural law of design.

 

[Anim8]

After writing this thread I sat down and thought a few things out:

1. Without a moral objective truth (which we as Catholics get from God),there can be no right or wrong. So debate is useless. I would first have to argue the existence of God.
2. If one believes in God, then I can refute the idea that homosexual love is love. I don’t think it is (not in the way gay people think of it). Love comes from God, we know that. I can easily prove that homosexuality is a sin (if you grant the existence of God), and since it is a sin, it is not of God, if it is not of God, there is no true love. In all likelihood it is more the love of a good friend, that has been perverted to include sexuality.

Unless he believes in God there can be no winning any argument. Because frankly, if God didn’t exist, there would be nothing wrong with homosexuality.

I am not so much out to convert him, as I am wanting to be able to hold my own in an argument. I think my best bet is to let him make the arguments, then refute them.

For example, here is something that was said:

Him:

Why would god make homosexuals? Is it the work of the devil? If it is then I guess god isnt as powerfull as we all believe.

Me:

God made you who you are, its you who chooses what you are.

Who you are is Benjamin (last name edited out). God made Benjamin (edit).

What you are is homosexual.

God made the who, and gives you choice to choose the what.

I think that this style of letting him make his case, and then provide my viewpoint (without being overly zealous i.e. “YOU HAVE TO BELIEVE BECAUSE THE BIBLE SAYS SO!!!”), is the best bet.

Thanks for the (name removed by moderator)ut guys & gals!

 

[Jason_Hurd]

I live my life in conformity to Christ, hoping to set an example, and pray, pray, pray.

I agree with this one hundred per cent. A picture is worth a thousand words. I think it would not be a bad thing for all of us, myself included, to observe a period of silence for awhile and allow our actions and behavior to speak for themselves. It’s been my experience that evangelisation through debate and verbal argument frequently repulses the evangelisee, or results in a less than fervent conversion. How much more powerful an evangelisation tool is the Catholic life, lived devoutly and prayerfully. I for one intend to try it immediately.

 

[Wolseley]

Go here. You will find a wealth of information that will help you in answering questions like this:

catholiceducation.org/directory/Current_Issues/Homosexuality/

 

[Sixtus]

Homosexuality is NOT wrong. People cannot help how they are born. There are a lot of celibate homosexuals.

What is wrong however, is homosexual unions and homosexual sex.

I doubt very much that you will ever convince him that same sex is wrong. Society is telling him it is ok and worse, it is religious freaks like us who are trying to pretend that it is wrong. He will probably tell you how ‘homosexual men commit less crime than heterosexuals etc etc’.

I am afraid there is probably little you can tell him and anything you do say will most certainly cost you your friendship.

 

[m134e5]

I’ve recently come into contact with someone who is openly gay, and see’s absolutely nothing wrong with it. He’s even wanting to debate the issue with me. He says “Love is love” and it doesn’t matter who you’re in love with. He keeps saying that gay marriage should be legal.

If it comes to a debate, how to I convince him that homosexuality is wrong?

If it’s not someone you’ve known for a long time, then you will be wasting your time, and you’ll likely just end up making him mad (and then he won’t speak to you again).

 

[EBSSTF4]

CCC

2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that “homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered.” They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.