How can I find out if a religious order is liberal?

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BTW, “1234”, I know only the Catholics posting on Phatmass. It says on your profile here that you are “UU”?? “Unitarian Universalist”, I’m assuming? What is your screename on PM? 😊
Sorry, Carm. I’m not as transparent as you are.
 
…for a more balanced look at contemporary sisters, go to

anunslife.org

By Sister Julie of the IHM’s. She has a current blog which profiles a novice in her order and a contemporary Salesian.
 
Wrong. Many orders who at least wear habits aren’t increasing.

Many cloistered houses of the Discalced Carmelites and the Dominican nuns, for example, are in danger of closing, others have closed and others have merged or are merging–all in habits.

Check Guide to Religious Orders for the stats and the websites.
Wow! I saw a video on youtube about Dominican nuns and they had to build more to accommadate the new nuns.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BxHskcd7_Q
 
Wow! I saw a video on youtube about Dominican nuns and they had to build more to accommadate the new nuns.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BxHskcd7_Q
This article is very brief, so I just clipped and pasted it below. It is dated December 2004.

The number of nuns in the world
Vocations decrease but not those for the cloister


by Gianni Cardinale
Code:
 Over the past thirty years the number of nuns has decreased by a quarter, but this large decrease doesn’t seem to have greatly affected cloistered convents. 
 In a documented article published in October by the monthly Rogate ergo, dedicated specifically to the consecrated life, a table was given that showed that the number of nuns had diminished between 1970 and 2002  from over a million to less than 800,000, a decrease of about 26 per cent.
 The same edition of the Rogationists’ periodical also noted that «female vocations to the contemplative life have everywhere increased, in Lazio as much as by 50 per cent».
 On the occasion of the World Cloister Day, celebrated on 21 November last, the Secretariat for Assistance to Nuns published data that showed the presence of contemplative nuns in the world. The number of convents throughout the world is 3,529 with 47,626 nuns and over 8,100 novices/postulants. Europe is the continent with most convents (2,252), followed in order by America (904), Asia (227), Africa (123) and Oceania (23). More than half of nuns, (29,788 professed and 3,179 novices and postulants) are to be found on the Old Continent. Worldwide the most numerous contemplative religious orders are the Franciscans (about 12,650 nuns), Benedictines (about 10,800) and Carmelites (12,200, of whom 802 are of “old observance”). 
 As for Italy, the female cloistered convents number 468 with 6,672 nuns and 321 novices. The religious Orders with most convents are the Franciscans (114 Clares , 34 Capuchins, 1 Eremite and 3 Tertiary), followed by the Benedictine Order with 99 convents (78 Benedictine, 12 Cistercian, 2 Carthusian, 5 Camaldolesians, 2 Trappist), and then the Carmelite (77). In Italy there are also 32 Dominican convents, 29 Visitandine, 25 Augustinian and 11 Passionist.
 
I think habits and whatever you call it men religious wear remind others and themselves of something outside of their daily worldly lives. It was interesting that I would see Buddhist monks in S. Korea in their monk clothes walking around,but older Catholic ones, anyway, dressed in layman’s clothes. I know why they find that better, but it’s not. I think dressing up in a suit means, for most, it’s serious and professional time. A partly buttoned-down short-sleeve shirt or t-shirt means for most, casual time.

S. Korea has no more Buddhists than Christians and Catholics are not a large majority of the Christian population there. Still, expats are more into Buddhism than Christianity, except, maybe non-Western Christians, like the Filipinos. Maybe there would be more Catholics, if people saw ones that looked unmistakingly Catholic. Maybe that would be true in the West, outside of major Catholic pilgrimage sites, as well. Also, if you need to talk to someone about your problems (or a priest for a confession), how sad would it be to see a priest, brother or sister and not know he/she was one who might be able to help, because he/she looked like the average person? I never see friars walking around major cities and I occasionally see a nun. In contrast, you see more Protestant churches than Catholic ones in most non-Catholic, for a long time, cities, I think St. Francis just had his brothers walk through town saying nothing–just for the point I’m making.

As for the enneagram, in Fr. M. Pacwa’s book about being frustrated with liberal trends in Mass, especially, he said he was into the Enneagram and one or two Eastern religion exercises in his early ministry. He doesn’t do those things now. Anything can be abused, even sacramentals, but Catholic things were at least used correctly in the beginning–in Catholic ways. Why use an enneagram when you can use the 4 temperaments. Fr. Conrad Hock wrote a concise, but info. full, booklet about it and the Bennett (sp?)'s (“The Temperament God Gave You” expanded it greatly, though disagreeing that one could be melancholic/sanguine or vice versa. 4marks.com and, I believe, the two books have a quiz and measurement to see what yours might be.

As for the Adrian Dominicans in lipstick and jewelry, is not a habit professional-lloking enough? Lay businesswomen dress in professional clothes or a uniform for them; A habit is a professional-looking uniform for women religious. You don’t need lipstick and jewelry to avoid looking like a bag lady, anyway. I’ve seen women who look perfectly professional without them. They may look plain, but there’s nothing wrong with that when working. Should nuns be looking possibly attractive to men, anyway? Older men are even looking around, so older nuns should not be looking decorated. It could lead men to sin. .
 
I think habits and whatever you call it men religious wear remind others and themselves of something outside of their daily worldly lives. It was interesting that I would see Buddhist monks in S. Korea in their monk clothes walking around,but older Catholic ones, anyway, dressed in layman’s clothes. I know why they find that better, but it’s not. I think dressing up in a suit means, for most, it’s serious and professional time. A partly buttoned-down short-sleeve shirt or t-shirt means for most, casual time.

S. Korea has no more Buddhists than Christians and Catholics are not a large majority of the Christian population there. Still, expats are more into Buddhism than Christianity, except, maybe non-Western Christians, like the Filipinos. Maybe there would be more Catholics, if people saw ones that looked unmistakingly Catholic. Maybe that would be true in the West, outside of major Catholic pilgrimage sites, as well. Also, if you need to talk to someone about your problems (or a priest for a confession), how sad would it be to see a priest, brother or sister and not know he/she was one who might be able to help, because he/she looked like the average person? I never see friars walking around major cities and I occasionally see a nun. In contrast, you see more Protestant churches than Catholic ones in most non-Catholic, for a long time, cities, I think St. Francis just had his brothers walk through town saying nothing–just for the point I’m making.

As for the enneagram, in Fr. M. Pacwa’s book about being frustrated with liberal trends in Mass, especially, he said he was into the Enneagram and one or two Eastern religion exercises in his early ministry. He doesn’t do those things now. Anything can be abused, even sacramentals, but Catholic things were at least used correctly in the beginning–in Catholic ways. Why use an enneagram when you can use the 4 temperaments. Fr. Conrad Hock wrote a concise, but info. full, booklet about it and the Bennett (sp?)'s (“The Temperament God Gave You” expanded it greatly, though disagreeing that one could be melancholic/sanguine or vice versa. 4marks.com and, I believe, the two books have a quiz and measurement to see what yours might be.

As for the Adrian Dominicans in lipstick and jewelry, is not a habit professional-lloking enough? Lay businesswomen dress in professional clothes or a uniform for them; A habit is a professional-looking uniform for women religious. You don’t need lipstick and jewelry to avoid looking like a bag lady, anyway. I’ve seen women who look perfectly professional without them. They may look plain, but there’s nothing wrong with that when working. Should nuns be looking possibly attractive to men, anyway? Older men are even looking around, so older nuns should not be looking decorated. It could lead men to sin. .
I am with you. Why not wear the habit? If I were a Dominican Monk, I would were it.
 
I am with you. Why not wear the habit? If I were a Dominican Monk, I would were it.
Not to be nit picky or anything but Dominicans are friars not monks. Same goes for Carmelites and Franciscans, but we Carmelites also have hermits as that is how we started out before we became a part of the mendicant movement.
 
Even if some orders were like that, the reason they’re not is what concerns me, considering so much of this relaxing of disciplines and abandoning of externals, thinking falsly that the masses (people) would become interior and not need them, happened as a result of the spirit of Vatican 2.

The clothes don’t always make the monk, friar or nun, but it encourages the mindset of those trying to be orthodox. They mean business. The loose-collar shirt or t-shirt influences a laid back thinking in ones who’re supposed to be anything but idle (except when sleeping). Then, the specialness that comes with wearing lay clothes can be an issue. Nuns working their hair could be added to that. If religious, never should this include priests, wear loose, but modest, clothes, the clothes should be alike and have a visible symbol of the community.

I don’t know what to think about communities that never had habits, like lay communities, but uniform with a community symbol is better, I think.
 
I just have to comment.
Even if some orders were like that, the reason they’re not is what concerns me, considering so much of this relaxing of disciplines and abandoning of externals, thinking falsly that the masses (people) would become interior and not need them, happened as a result of the spirit of Vatican 2.

The clothes don’t always make the monk, friar or nun, but it encourages the mindset of those trying to be orthodox. They mean business. The loose-collar shirt or t-shirt influences a laid back thinking in ones who’re supposed to be anything but idle (except when sleeping). Then, the specialness that comes with wearing lay clothes can be an issue. Nuns working their hair could be added to that. If religious, never should this include priests, wear loose, but modest, clothes, the clothes should be alike and have a visible symbol of the community.

I don’t know what to think about communities that never had habits, like lay communities, but uniform with a community symbol is better, I think.
Each and every religious community/order has its own charism. Some may share a charism or some may draw from other charisms to form their own but each has their own.

To say this, “who’re supposed to be anything but idle (except when sleeping)” shows a misunderstanding of this.

Religious, no matter what kind, are not “on” all the time. We do have recreation time worked into our schedules, even if it is a very short amount of time weekly.

I think a lot of people here have a very romanticized and unrealistic view of what religious life is all about.

The first thing that someone discerning a vocation needs to do is to get a good spiritual director.
 
I understand recreation, but as a part of healthy living, like sleep, and so is not idleness. I don’t know how you get so less sleep at night and function normally the next day, week, month, etc. Isn’t that unhealthy when not being damaged by allowing yourself to be martyred or assaulted for God’s glory and your soul?

I was reading ha comment by one in the military wondering how the military, who also have a serious job that should not be impeded by sleep deprivation, are given bad sleep times when not in battle.
 
Thanks.I hadn’t heard that.
My daughter was in a vocations discernment program & seemed to hear the opposite point of view.Perhaps it applies more to cloistered orders?
Only a handful of orders in habits are getting vocations in any numbers. Two in particular, the Dominicans of St. Cecilia in Nashville, TN and their ‘offspring’ Dominicans of Mary Mother of the Eucharist in Ann Arbor MI have a very well-oiled media apparatus which includes lots of videos on YouTube, vocations directors with Blackberries, etc. These have been well-covered in the press. Other, including the Sisters of Life and the Franciscans of the Renewal and the Franciscans of the Martyr St. George are also growing; other habited orders get only a few, 2-3 novices and/or professions a year, at most. The Discalced Carmelites in Valparaiso NE appear to be the only DC monastery which is growing rapidly. A few Dominican monasteries are growing, others are not or have closed. There are a bunch of habited orders that either aren’t growing, or don’t have formation information on their websites.

Other women, especially women aged 40+, are joining the updated orders, but don’t get the press coverage because these formerly large orders are still much larger than the ‘new’ ones, and are much older. And these orders don’t wear habits, so you don’t get cute videos of teenagers running around playing soccer in habits!

On Phatmass, it’s interesting that there are a lot of posters talking about the habited, cloistered orders, but those sisters who actually post are members of other orders, usually apostolic and who wear no habit or a modified one!
 
To find out if an order is liberal, ask them if they believe in EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS. 👍
 
Is there some sort of non-biased resource I can check out that will help me find out which religious orders in the U.S. are more traditional, and orthodox and which not?

For example: I hear rumors that Maryknoll and Jesuits tend to be more socially liberal and attract people who don’t always agree with the vatican; while Dominicans, Cisctercians, and Fransiscans are more traditional and in line with church teaching. But I guess it is all in perspective, since an SSPX or Legionary of Christ person would probably consider Fransiscans too “liberal.”

Right now I have to look for subtle or intangible evidence, like this one sister I know who doesn’t wear a habit and is always talking about women’s rights. That gives me clues about the Sisters of St. Mary of Namur, but I don’t want to condemn them all with the label “Oh, they’re a liberal order.”

Is there any place I can get real evidence (exmple: “The Passionists support the use of the enneagram, while Rome condemns it”) and compasionate guidance?
Two words--------------------Centering Prayer.
 
Yeah, I’ve seen that in religious orders lately. It’s a darn shame. 😦
It should be no surprise that various religious orders practice centering prayer. It was “developed” by Fr. M. Basil Pennington, Order of Cistercian Strict Observance and it is based on ancient Christian prayer forms. The idea of a liberal Cistercian is somewhat mind boggling to me. I have heard good and bad things about Centering Prayer and have no personal opinion on it one way or the other and this is not the thread to discuss it.
 
It should be no surprise that various religious orders practice centering prayer. It was “developed” by Fr. M. Basil Pennington, Order of Cistercian Strict Observance and it is based on ancient Christian prayer forms. The idea of a liberal Cistercian is somewhat mind boggling to me. I have heard good and bad things about Centering Prayer and have no personal opinion on it one way or the other and this is not the thread to discuss it.
Fr. M. Basil Pennington is not someone I would want teaching me about Catholicism. That’s my opinion, and I stand by it.

catholic.com/thisrock/1997/9711fea1.asp
 
He may be “out there”, but it was pretty cool that I talked to him (being relatively well-known) or e-mailed him once. He didn’t remember that info. was public, but it obviously was. The same goes with Patch Adams. He really seems to be quite grumpy, but he was courteous, considering he was about to go somewhere.
 
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