How can I help my boyfriend understand?

[mamacita]

I do, indeed have a daughter. One that is very involved in the True Catholic Faith…not of any liberal ideas at all. She attends, of her own determination, 3 prayer meetings a week. She tries very much to get to Mass every day, goes to Confession regularly, sits in the Adoration Chapel often, prays the Rosary frequently.
That being said, I would CERTAINLY promote a relationship, if it was sinless, to someone who was not perfect.
She knows that she does not want to be married to someone who does not share her Catholic Faith. She is also very much aware that people aren’t created in a perfect world. Almost EVERYONE has baggage of some sort. If she cared about someone and wanted to be a light shining from a hilltop to him, I would join her in praying for him, and making sure he knew he was loved and welcomed in my home as long as he was respectful. I would search for small ways to help him to notice Christ in any and everything. I would try to be a witness of the love of Jesus Christ in our lives. And I would pray that, even if things are not to be marriage between my daughter and himself, that he had experienced the love of Jesus just from having known us. That he went away knowing that Jesus is real, and that He loves him in a very personal way.

***Once again…I would not object but be welcoming…**Providing he was not attempting to lead her into sin. And this guy is not attempting to do so to Jelly./*****I]

**But he isn’t leading her ANYWHERE!!! This relationship isn’t leading anywhere!!! He won’t go to Mass w/ her, which fine if some of you on here have dated guys like that but she is asking what she can do to HELP him, well it sounds as if he isn’t wanting any prodding.
She is a sound Catholic he is not!! Dating is for marriage (or the hopes of marriage), then why not just be friends w/ him if he isn’t ‘open’ to even reading about how/why porn is wrong?? One does not have to date someone to lead them to Christ. I have lead friends to Christ w/ out having to be their girlfriend!!! I strongly feel that Jellie should not be DATING him. PERIOD. It’s a recipe for disaster to date someone that called her email links ‘silly.’ Shows how much he devalues her opinions/beliefs. **

 

[jmcrae]

If you read my posts, you would have seen that I stated very clearly to Jelly that she was in no way obligated to stay in this relationship. Once again, SHE IS NOT TALKING ABOUT MARRYING THIS GUY !!!

Dating is the prelude to marriage. She should be dating the guy that she wants to marry - someone who will be the best possible father to her children, and best possible son-in-law to her parents, as well as the best possible protector, best friend, life partner, lover, and moral guide for herself. Someone who already shares her goals and ideals, with whom she has as much as possible in common with.

Why should you tell God that she is not allowed to be a part of His bringing Joe into the fold? And she hasn’t called him a porn addict!!! Stop putting words into her mouth! We all know that pornography is bad, no one is disputing that. But that doesn’t mean that everyone who sometimes looks at pornography is addicted to it!!!

I was responding to someone who was talking about reformed drug addicts - I don’t know whether her boyfriend is addicted to porn, or not - that wasn’t what I was responding to.

My point is, it is foolish to believe that without any light in his life, he will find his way out of the darkness.

I think it’s a bit arrogant to assume that she is the only light in his life. I also don’t think that she has to destroy her own life on the off chance that he might convert because of her.

And it is foolish to believe that if she said…no more dating…you are not allowed to hold my hand…he would not find a girlfriend who would put an end to his friendship with Jelly. Did you want your boyfriend or husband hanging out with his ex girlfriends? Be realistic!!!

Of course - because the reason for dating is not for friendship, nor for witnessing, but for preparing to get married. That’s why his new girlfriend would want the old girlfriend to get out of the picture.

 

[Jesus_N_Cherie]

Still, Jesus N Cherie, the fact that missionary dating is wrong has not been refuted. It cannot be, really.

Regardless of what may happen with him after they break up, it is not right for her to date him in hopes of changing him. She cannot be a “placeholder” preventing him from being with another… that is not her role!

She should be friends with him for as long as he will stick around, and this should be a long time if he genuinely cares for her. Then, through witness and example, as said before by 1ke and agapewolf, he may be brought to Christ.

I have had personal experience with this, having been in a similar position several times (though I was the guy) and, experientially, I can tell you that it is not wise to remain in such a situation. Additionally, I can tell you that some of the girls that I no longer date have remained as good friends, even if they were not Catholic, and one even came to Mass with my family and I a few weeks ago!

P.S. Not all guys look at porn… I know many who do not, including me!

P.P.S. Praise the Lord, because I am now courting a devout and most beautiful Catholic young woman! Thank you, Lord God Almighty, for your countless graces! May we all recognize that we have nothing without You, and that everything we have is a gift. May we turn to You in humility, bow down in adoration of your glory and majesty, and unconditionally offer our lives to You, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit!

You are still missing the point. She isn’t with him because she wants to change him. She is with him, period. And since she has chosen to be with him, she would like to know what to say to refute his arguments about abortion, pre-marital sex and porn.

She is not thinking about dating him. She is. They obviously have much mutual respect. I don’t think she should have to break up with him if he is not trying to lead her into sin.

I am aware that not all guys look at porn. When was the last time you were on a college campus with a bunch of guys who were not Christians? Those who aren’t Christian have no reason not to look at pornogrophy. They have to be given a reason and shown the “reality” of pornogrophy. It isn’t something that they will get by instinct. Which is why we, as Christians, should take the opportunities that fall into our lap to teach people the truth.

Once more, she is not thinking about taking up a romantic relationship with someone who has these issues. She and he have met and begun dating. They aren’t talking about marriage. He hasn’t proposed. They are in a dating relationship which contains no sin. They are not in a sinful relationship. She was simply asking this forum what words she could use to talk to him about certain issues.

 

[Jesus_N_Cherie]

To all of the posters on this thread, you will be relieved, I am sure, by my statement that this will be my final post on this particular thread.

I know that you all mean well for Jelly. I do, however, wonder that this hasn’t become for you all more of a thread of “courship versus dating” which is on another thread. And, in truth, I believe that courtship is the best way to go. That being said, I don’t believe you can impose it on a college student who is already in a romantic relationship. And the guy in question is NOT trying to impose on her belief system or lead her into sin. They simply enjoy being together. So they are, in reality, friends who cuddle sometimes and go no farther than a kiss. That is probably as close to courtship in a dating sense as one can get. And you can read my posts on the “Dating is an abomination” thread.
My point is, I don’t see a NEED for her to backtrack in this relationship with him. No, it isn’t going anywhere. Neither are looking for it to. They are happy with the way things are right now. She simply asked us for ideas on what words to use to talk to him about things she has justifiable issues with.

You say she doesn’t belong with him because he is not marriage material. I will grant you that maybe right now he is not marriage material. I am not sure she is looking to marry anyone at this point in her life. She is enjoying spending time with him, and would like us to give her words so that she can also feel comfortable talking with him about FAITH.

Spending time with him without falling into sin, and without marrying her will certainly NOT ruin her life. That is ridiculous!

I hope that you will begin to address her original question, and not keep this up as a debate about dating versus courtship. She deserves answers to her questions. I hope I have given her some ideas in my first few posts.

Jelly, God bless you, and “Joe”. Remember to do NOTHING without first praying, asking Jesus to fill you with His Holy Spirit, that you may be a vessel that He can work through to touch “Joe”.
You can reach me by private post if you would like to. Don’t let them beat “Joe” up more than you know that “Joe” deserves.

 

[Feanaro_s_Wife]

My point is, I don’t see a NEED for her to backtrack in this relationship with him. No, it isn’t going anywhere. Neither are looking for it to. ** They are happy with the way things are right now.** She simply asked us for ideas on what words to use to talk to him about things she has justifiable issues with.

She sure didn’t sound happy.

You say she doesn’t belong with him because he is not marriage material. I will grant you that maybe right now he is not marriage material. I am not sure she is looking to marry anyone at this point in her life. She is enjoying spending time with him, and would like us to give her words so that she can also feel comfortable talking with him about FAITH.

Spending time with him without falling into sin, and without marrying her will certainly NOT ruin her life. That is ridiculous!

** You cannot say that it will NOT ruin her life anymore than we can say that it WILL. But what it can do is slowly but subtly lead her away from her faith, distract her from what God may be calling her towards, or make her miss the man God has intended for her (if she is indeed called to the vocation of marriage) because she is “attached” and not looking and certainly not “available” should another young man express interest.**

 

[FdeS2]

You are still missing the point. She isn’t with him because she wants to change him. She is with him, period. And since she has chosen to be with him, she would like to know what to say to refute his arguments about abortion, pre-marital sex and porn.

She is not thinking about dating him. She is. They obviously have much mutual respect. I don’t think she should have to break up with him if he is not trying to lead her into sin.

I am aware that not all guys look at porn. When was the last time you were on a college campus with a bunch of guys who were not Christians? Those who aren’t Christian have no reason not to look at pornogrophy. They have to be given a reason and shown the “reality” of pornogrophy. It isn’t something that they will get by instinct. Which is why we, as Christians, should take the opportunities that fall into our lap to teach people the truth.

Once more, she is not thinking about taking up a romantic relationship with someone who has these issues. She and he have met and begun dating. They aren’t talking about marriage. He hasn’t proposed. They are in a dating relationship which contains no sin. They are not in a sinful relationship. She was simply asking this forum what words she could use to talk to him about certain issues.

Sadly, you will not read this, but it must be said (again).

If she does not want to change him, then WHY IS SHE ASKING HOW TO CHANGE HIM? He is not currently as she would like him to be. In my experience (and in the dictionary), change means moving from one state into a different state. His current mindset and attitudes would move from one state into another state if she is successful. I believe that qualifies as changing him.

Someone who thinks that it is fine to hold hands and kiss someone that they do not have a fairly reasonable chance of marrying in the future is, in my opinion, a bit off. A kiss (especially) is such an intimate and beautiful thing, a gift from one person to another. Kisses should not be dealt out without serious consideration. Being in a relationship where one kisses another without intention to marry is unhealthy.

The last time I was at a university where all the guys were not Christian was… about a year ago, actually. There I discussed pornography, just as I had in high school, and was able to influence some people positively (I pray). Still, dating is NOT the relationship in which to change someone’s mind. It is not healthy to do so and, although it can and has worked, it should be avoided.

No dating relationship is devoid of some type of sin. None.

Basically, a good formula is: Friendship=Discussion X Time

Courtship/Dating= Friendship + Common Faith + God’s Grace

Yours in Christ,
Daniel

 

[jesusismyrock]

The porn issue would cause me a lot of concern. I would probably end things if he couldn’t give that up.

I will write some more after this but when I saw this particular thing it made me think.
What apparently all of you commentors don’t realize is that porn is an addiction. Yes Porn is a very very bad thing, and it is something that needs to be stopped I completely agree. BUT smoking is an addiction too and you can’t just go and say stop smoking cold turkey. Smoking doesn’t make someone a BAD person and neither does porn. It as a bad action that the person makes, but it is something that needs to be prayed about. If this man has never had a good reason to not watch porn then why should he stop. If smoking cigarettes wasn’t harmful to your body then why shouldn’t someone be able to smoke to help relieve tension or stress.

You can’t judge this man because he has an addiction. Like any addiction it needs to be prayed about and he needs to receive the truth and be prayed for that he may receive the truth in knowing that porn destroys the image of the purpose for sexuality in a human being, male or female.

Many people here seem to be very sexist too. I’m a female but I’m not all for the people that seem to be saying Well he’s a guy so if that is his focus he’ll never change Hello, if you are complaining that he is Catholic but not a practicing Catholic then you probably need to look in the mirror, because as Catholics we are called to Evangelize and have COMPLETE FAITH IN THE POWER OF PRAYER AND MIGHTY WORKS AND MIRACLES OF OUR GOD.

I’ll write more as I see more.

 

[jesusismyrock]

Oh, yeah, jellie, one more thing: Go buy a copy of Ten Stupid Things Women Do To Mess Up Their Lives by Dr. Laura Schlessinger and read it… twice. You REALLY need that book.

Just read your last post. I have to tell you that him being the president of his frat does not raise my opinion of him. Frats are drunken party houses… no wonder he thinks all guys look at porn. All the ones he knows probably do. I have informed my children that if they join any Greek organization, I will not pay for any portion of their college education. At my college, the frat houses were where most of the loud drunken parties and date rapes happened. They were the places where Mom and Dad were paying for everything, so the guys started partying on Thursday night and didn’t quit until Monday morning. They skipped class all the time…

WoW, I cannot believe all the negativity that this poor girl is receiving from all of you. SHE WANTS TO BRING HIM CLOSER TO CHRIST… SHE IS TRYING TO EVANGELIZE. WHY DO ALL OF YOU PEOPLE FIND THIS SUCH A BAD THING IF YOU CALL YOURSELVES CATHOLICS? JESUS CAME TO SAVE THE OUTCASTS… MAYBE YOU SHOULD PRAY THAT HE WILL SAVE YOU TOO.

 

[jmcrae]

WoW, I cannot believe all the negativity that this poor girl is receiving from all of you. SHE WANTS TO BRING HIM CLOSER TO CHRIST… SHE IS TRYING TO EVANGELIZE. WHY DO ALL OF YOU PEOPLE FIND THIS SUCH A BAD THING IF YOU CALL YOURSELVES CATHOLICS? JESUS CAME TO SAVE THE OUTCASTS… MAYBE YOU SHOULD PRAY THAT HE WILL SAVE YOU TOO.

It is not possible to have two different kinds of relationship with a person. She has already stated that she is dating him, which means that she is not really in a position to be his religion teacher, or his Mom.

Jesus did come to save the outcasts, but He was not dating them, nor considering marriage with them.

 

[FdeS2]

Dear jesusismyrock,

She sent him an email about porn, and here’s what happened:

So, he e-mails me back with all the reasons he likes porn and ends it with “so in conclusion this message was useless and now u know u shouldnt send me these silly messages… ok bebe ttyl lol”

If one is not open to learning why porn is bad, then one will not be able to “see the light.”

Without any judgment of the man, it is objectively obvious that dating to change is NOT a good idea, as has been stated time and again. Please, read what has been said… all of the pages…

Sexist, no. I don’t think that the people here are being so… I am a 20 year old guy, and we are discussing a college-age young man. If it were a girl who was doing the same things, the conversation would go the same way. I have actually participated on threads where guys have been advised to be friends with girls who were not good “dating material.”

Please, in addition, do not use the caps lock so much… it seems as though yelling is taking place, when this is supposed to be a civil discussion.

No one here will argue that evangelization is bad… but a dating relationship is not the place for it.

 

[jesusismyrock]

This is a rather minimalist perspective, as if this is some sort of feat for which he deserves praise instead of a basic requirement for the privilege of dating you!

I don’t know why you think that you have any right to keep after her if you don’t think that she should keep after him. You are being very hypocritical. Try and be a real Catholic yourself

 

[jesusismyrock]

And why should one need to “help” one’s boyfriend or girlfriend? They are supposed to be our best friend and trustworthy confidant; not someone who needs “fixing” in some way.

PS: Not talking about helping him fix his car or helping him do something around the house - that kind of help is what friends are for. But helping him become a civilized human being? That’s his Mom’s job.

BECAUSE AS CATHOLICS WE ARE CALLED TO EVANGELIZE and INCASE NONE OF YALL REALIZED… SHE BELIEVES THAT GOD IS CALLING HER TO EVANGELIZE HIM. SHE HAS NOT FALLEN WITH HIM AND HE HAS NOT PUSHED HER TO DO ANYTHING OF ANY IMMORAL VALUE… WHAT IS WITH U PPL???

Sorry OP didn’t mean to yell but I am completely on your side with the whole issue.!!!

 

[jmcrae]

BECAUSE AS CATHOLICS WE ARE CALLED TO EVANGELIZE and INCASE NONE OF YALL REALIZED… SHE BELIEVES THAT GOD IS CALLING HER TO EVANGELIZE HIM.

We aren’t supposed to date people who need evangelizing, though - that’s what people are trying to say, here. Catholics are supposed to date other Catholics, who share their same values and moral code.

 

[jesusismyrock]

It is not possible to have two different kinds of relationship with a person. She has already stated that she is dating him, which means that she is not really in a position to be his religion teacher, or his Mom.

Jesus did come to save the outcasts, but He was not dating them, nor considering marriage with them.

Go Read Matthew 10

She is not having 2 different relationships with him. She has a relationship with this person and is also a devout Catholic and is trying to Evangelize.

You don’t have to be a religion teacher, someone from the religious order, or someone’s parents to bring them close to Jesus… FYI

 

[jesusismyrock]

Dear jesusismyrock,

She sent him an email about porn, and here’s what happened:

If one is not open to learning why porn is bad, then one will not be able to “see the light.”

Without any judgment of the man, it is objectively obvious that dating to change is NOT a good idea, as has been stated time and again. Please, read what has been said… all of the pages…

Sexist, no. I don’t think that the people here are being so… I am a 20 year old guy, and we are discussing a college-age young man. If it were a girl who was doing the same things, the conversation would go the same way. I have actually participated on threads where guys have been advised to be friends with girls who were not good “dating material.”

Please, in addition, do not use the caps lock so much… it seems as though yelling is taking place, when this is supposed to be a civil discussion.

No one here will argue that evangelization is bad… but a dating relationship is not the place for it.

So it never crossed your mind that Evangelizing someone might not happen immediately. And you seem to think that someone that you care for as more than a friend you cannot Evangelize. WoW some faith in God you have.

 

[jesusismyrock]

We aren’t supposed to date people who need evangelizing, though - that’s what people are trying to say, here. Catholics are supposed to date other Catholics, who share their same values and moral code.

Tell me, where in the Bible did it say that. You believe that you can only be an acquaintance with someone of the opposite sex if you plan on helping them become closer to Christ.???

 

[jmcrae]

Tell me, where in the Bible did it say that. You believe that you can only be an acquaintance with someone of the opposite sex if you plan on helping them become closer to Christ.???

Well, I think it’s best that way, especially if they don’t actually want to know Christ, and wouldn’t intend to raise my children with good morals and strong faith.

 

[jesusismyrock]

Well, I think it’s best that way, especially if they don’t actually want to know Christ, and wouldn’t intend to raise my children with good morals and strong faith.

Yes but what many people on here are failing to realize is Jesus knows Best not us

I don’t want or mean to criticize but how can you all tell her to go against Christ.

God has brought her into this young man’s life to Evangelize him. If she no longer dates him and tells him she just wants to be friends, there is a great chance that they won’t be friends and then there will have been a failing in God’s plan for this person. If she is not in a harmful relationship and is in the process of trying to bring him closer to Christ, what is so horrible and frightening about that?

 

[mamacita]

So it never crossed your mind that Evangelizing someone might not happen immediately. And you seem to think that someone that you care for as more than a friend you cannot Evangelize. WoW some faith in God you have.

**One can have faith in God and still see it unfit to date someone such as this guy.

So let me say this: I have faith in God. So since I have faith in God I could go date a rapist-murderer-drug addict BECAUSE I have faith in God makes all that okay??? AND no, just for the record I am not saying that this guy is all the above things, that is not at all what I am saying. However, this guy thinks abortion is not murder and he was raised Catholic, he thinks a lot of things that are not in line w/ her thinking. WHy ‘fix’ someone to be who YOU want them to be?? Why not let well enuf alone and move on??**

 

[jesusismyrock]

**One can have faith in God and still see it unfit to date someone such as this guy.

So let me say this: I have faith in God. So since I have faith in God I could go date a rapist-murderer-drug addict BECAUSE I have faith in God makes all that okay??? AND no, just for the record I am not saying that this guy is all the above things, that is not at all what I am saying. However, this guy thinks abortion is not murder and he was raised Catholic, he thinks a lot of things that are not in line w/ her thinking. WHy ‘fix’ someone to be who YOU want them to be?? Why not let well enuf alone and move on??**

Because she is called to help in God’s process of Evangelizing him. And even though you said that he may not be all of the above listed things, you all are treating him as if he is. Yes, porn, abortion, and premarital sex are wrong… But Evangelizing someone takes time. He might have been baptized Catholic and being a little boy might have gone to church, but within the past few years this girl is the only one that has tried to be the Beacon light of Christ to this boy.

Something no one seems to understand is that God has called us to Evangelize because he will never EVER force himself upon someone. He has given everyone a free will, and because he has given everyone a free will he brings these people who are lost, to those that have been found so that they may bring them into the light of Christ and so that they may be Evangelized. HOWEVER, the Devil will force himself upon anyone he chooses, and he has chosen to get into the mind of this guy and apparently has been working in him for a long time. So if Jelly is the person that God has sent to show him the right way, what is Wrong with that. I think it is Beautiful and praise God that he has kept her this strong and faithful to his Majesty that she may remain pure in this relationship.