How can I help my boyfriend understand?

[ghaybyers1]

Well, this became quite heated.
I’m just putting my two cents in as someone who spent too long trying to change her (now ex) fiance into a morally upright and mentally stable brother in Christ.

Perhaps I’m just too sensitive about the type of behavior he’s showing towards her (belittling her concerns, the response to her email, the passive-agressive controlling…), but the pattern appears to be one that will recycle itself and manifest in potentially more concerning ways as it builds up steam.

God does not choose for us to be in abusive relationships- and if there’s an iota of honesty in this, it’s that his actions and words are emotionally abusive towards Jellie. No daughter of the Lord is meant to be treated as she is- it’s time to stand up for the worth that God has placed in her, and show the depth of her own self respect. She deserves someone that loves her so much that he’ll change the immoral aspects of himself for her, and be willing to open his mind and heart to the sacraments. Jellie’s boyfriend is not doing this- and thus, after this trial period in their relationship, he should be let go.

And just to give an idea of what can happen in these sorts of relationships… my ex is an alliance church youth leader. He has since lapsed into serious mental illness, threatened my family, attacked me and is on warning from the police to stay away from my family and myself. The next step is for me to disappear. I wish I had listened to the signs that the Lord was giving me to admit in my heart that we weren’t evenly matched- I have a feeling that if I hadn’t been so stubbornly persisting in a hopeless relationship, I may have had a chance to reach him with the Truth.

Lord, please guide Jellie down the correct path. No one can tell her what is right but You- You are the Creator of holy paths, please steady her feet on hers. Also, Lord, please heal the heart and mind of my former fiance, Gavin, and allow him to no longer wish to stalk me and threaten me into submission. I beg for rest. I ask not only for myself, but for our families, which are unfortunately affected by this as well. I pray that I can stay in my home and continue to help the legally disadvantaged through my not-for-profit work and to fight for post secondary students’ rights through the Canadian University Press. Lord, please hear my humble prayer.

 

[GraceDK]

sister Ghaybyers…

I Just wanna say that I think you are absolutely right… as well as the others here who have warned Jelly.
She is letting herself be disrespected as a Christian woman every day she is accepting this immoral and unacceptable behaviour in her boy friend. That she puts up with it even shows me that she lacks a whole lot in Christian formation.
She needs to set a much higher standard, date to find “the one”, not date men who have severe purity issues that they wont admit, who belittle her concerns and dont share her faith and the morals that it teaches to the good of every human individual.
She needs more Christian friends as well as some solid Christian teaching from the pulpit …and whats up with Catholic youth groups?
I too would be unhappy if my teen age girl became involved emotionally with a guy whom I could not trust her with at all and who was an unrepentant sinner. A guy can have a terrible effect on the girl he is dating and she wont discover it until its too late. I speak from experience.
Warm fussies or not… I hope Jelly changes her mind.
However… it seems she got tired of us coz she has not been here for a while.

PS. Evangelisation and romance has little to do with one another. Let me also assure you that young women who are infatuated by young men are often not in their right mind… a clear sign is that they accept the unacceptable.

 

[jmcrae]

I have found in the conversion experience that what you have said is absolutely wrong. Have you ever heard of Scott Hahn? He was anti-Catholic. When he converted to Catholicism, he became a world renown professor of Theology in one, if not the, most wonderful Catholic university in the world. The university where college students who want to learn the TRUTH go.

If I recall correctly, Dr. Hahn was not in a romantic relationship with any of the people who drew him to conversion (who tended mostly to be nuns and priests, if I recall correctly).

He also interacted thoughtfully and intelligently with their ideas, even while he was still disagreeing with them.

Jellie’s boyfriend responds “lol bebe” and makes rude jokes in response to her messages. He doesn’t interact with her ideas; instead, he just makes fun of her and puts her down.

We cannot put limitations on Christ. Where the Holy Spirit is at work, there also is Wisdom.
Some of the most insightful things about the Truth of Jesus Christ come from new Catholic Christians.

When someone becomes a convert to Catholicism, they don’t just sit and learn. They are Confirmed as adults into the Faith, and that is because they are not just students. The Holy Spirit uses anyone who is open to His wisdom and His gifts.

All of this is true - I’m a convert, too, and I hope it’s true - but conversion happens when the people doing the teaching have the role of “teacher” in the convert’s life. I worked for four years with the RCIA, and what we found over that period of time was that those who were in romantic relationships with their sponsors tended to equate their relationship with the Church to their relationship to their romantic partner - and in every case where there was a break-up, the potential convert dropped out of the conversion process. Not so with those whose sponsors were not involved with them romantically - if something happened to the sponsor, those people kept carrying on, and found new sponsors.

 

[DL82]

Hi Jellie,

You both sound very young. I don’t know whether either of you are ready for marriage, but it certainly sounds like your boyfriend isn’t.

I had similar problems the other way around, nowhere near as bad as what you’re having, but just minor things that we couldn’t agree on.

The question is, where do you each get your values? If you disagree on something, but both have a common goal, you can discuss things and come to a compromise. If your goals are different, that won’t happen, no matter how long you wait.

It sounds like you get your values from the Church and from a desire to please God. Your boyfriend, on the other hand, gets his values from the fallen world, and from wanting to please himself. That’s not a situation you can resolve, and all you can do is pray and pray for his conversion, though there’s no guarantee that will ever happen.

The thing is, even if you get him to stop looking at porn, he’s still going to want to look at porn, you’ll just be stopping him. Then you’ve got the issue of waiting until marriage, and then within marriage remaining faithful to the Church’s teachings on being open to life. That’s always going to be a struggle for someone who doesn’t want to follow God’s plan in his life. In fact, more than a struggle, it’s going to make him resent you. Is that really a fight you want to go on fighting all your life, do you even feel strong enough to do that?

The problem is, when people have core values like living for God or living for pleasure, there is no compromise between them. I thought I could reach a compromise, but at the end of the day there were too few things I could compromise on without feeling guilty, and too few things my ex could compromise on without feeling resentful. At the end of the day, I think your boyfriend has to make a decision about where his heart is - is it with you or is it with his porn?

 

[mamacita]

Ok well me and the people I get into relationships with try and help me with my faith… and umm you just messed up your sentences because you even said this Present Morality She is trying to evangelize him as we have said several times and then umm a dating relationship might not be the only possible kind of relationship BUT… that is the kind of relationship she’s in and she wasn’t asking for dating advice she was asking for advice on how to help show him more about the Roman Catholic Faith!

Well she HAS been trying to show him the faith. She has asked him to go to Mass, he said no. She has mentioned many other things she has brought up to him and he has opposing views to everything, maybe he’s being rebellious, who knows? Anyway, you can lead a horse to water but you can’t make him drink!!! This is so true in this relationship that Jellie has w/ him.

 

[Jesus_N_Cherie]

If I recall correctly, Dr. Hahn was not in a romantic relationship with any of the people who drew him to conversion (who tended mostly to be nuns and priests, if I recall correctly).

He also interacted thoughtfully and intelligently with their ideas, even while he was still disagreeing with them.

Jellie’s boyfriend responds “lol bebe” and makes rude jokes in response to her messages. He doesn’t interact with her ideas; instead, he just makes fun of her and puts her down.

All of this is true - I’m a convert, too, and I hope it’s true - but conversion happens when the people doing the teaching have the role of “teacher” in the convert’s life. I worked for four years with the RCIA, and what we found over that period of time was that those who were in romantic relationships with their sponsors tended to equate their relationship with the Church to their relationship to their romantic partner - and in every case where there was a break-up, the potential convert dropped out of the conversion process. Not so with those whose sponsors were not involved with them romantically - if something happened to the sponsor, those people kept carrying on, and found new sponsors.

I cannot possibly find fault with what you are saying in the last paragraph.

My whole point has been that it seems as though you all were putting restrictions on what God can do. I have been involved in too many relationships in my life. But I am praying that the seeds that were planted concerning Christ came to fruition even after the break up. That the time spent in prayer, and the conversations about the Faith made a difference to the lives of those who were not meant to be my spouse. To my way of thinking, no time spent working for a person’s soul is wasted. It doesn’t make sense, with his background that the things everyone was suggesting would do any good for him spiritually…and, marriage or not, she did want to learn how to speak with him about spiritual things.
There are saints through out the history of Catholicism who went into areas that weren’t “safe”, to bring about the will of Christ Jesus. Never into the state of sin, but into a place that was not the safest. And there have been countless Christians through out time who have been married to athiests. Jesus has used these Christians to bring about the conversion of the atheist spouses.

So, my point is, even if it isn’t the ideal situation, she might still be doing the exact thing Jesus wants her to for his conversion. It is certainly not out of the realm of possibility to what Christ has done throughout history. He meets us where we are…at the best time…to bring us to the truth. And this might be his best time. She may be what is going to keep him from sinking ever deeper into his soul’s death.
Yes, he didn’t respond well to her email, but you don’t know what he may have done after their argument. He may have thought about it. He may be considering it even as we debate this. Sometimes our initial response to something isn’t what remains. Haven’t you ever argued about something that you later realized you were wrong about? Haven’t you ever changed your opinion about something important. You get the facts, and your stance on the subject changes.
I do not think she sees in him a person who is so filled with stubborness and pride that he will recieve the facts on these subjects…which are extremely important…and refuse to come around. That is, in my opinion, the reason why she wanted some ideas about what to say to him. She wanted to educate herself. She sees it as a worthy cause.
I know that you all don’t think that dating is for worthy causes concerning anything other than determining marriage. I stand by my words that if she went looking for someone to date in order to change a person, that would not be wise at all. That would be missionary dating. But we are talking about 2 people who are in a relationship already. If she rejects him…and to break up in order to just be friends is something he will take as rejection, it might very well do more harm to him spiritually than good. So if she wants to stay with him for all of the reasons she got together with him to begin with, and she thinks that maybe if he had all of the facts on these subjects he would come around, then I think she is alright to talk to him about these things.
AS LONG AS SHE IS NOT SINNING !!!

I really am tired with this. I am not angry in writing this last post. I am sorry for the angry posts up to this time. I stand by all that I have written, but not the tone in which I wrote it. I truly apologize for the offenses. That is certainly not how I want to act, or the way I want to be thought of by the people in this thread. I beg your forgiveness and ask that you not judge me by my tone.
God bless you all. Cherie

 

[jellie89]

Hi sorry i’ve been away for so long.

wow alot has happened. Thank you all for your prayers and concern.

So I would just like to explain some stuff about our relationship.

We are not that serious. Marraige has never come up. I am 19; I don’t even want to begin thinking about marraige yet. I have lots to do in my life before I settle down. I know God has a plan for me and I trust that everything will work out.

I am with him because I like him for who he is, and I want to be with him (for now) even if he doesn’t change. I came to this forum because I want to help him because I care about him. It’s true, he doesn’t want help. But I can’t help but hope anyway.

If he ever did anything to compromise my morals he would be gone in a second. He never has. That excerpt from the email I wrote previously doesn’t accuratly show how he treats me. He was mad at his mom, and when he’s angry he gets super stubborn. That sentence was actually what got me the angriest. If he talked to me like more than once he would be gone. I chose to forgive him because he realized he was wrong to treat me that way. I wouldn’t do it again.

I know our relationship has no real future, and it makes me sad. I’m just too happy with us right now to leave. If what ya’ll say is true, he will screw up eventually, and then I’ll go find my good catholic boy and settle down. I just don’t want that right now.

I also know that what I want doesn’t matter, so if God wants something different for me I am trying to be open to it. I pray everyday for God to help him, and to guide me in His will.

 

[Alycin]

Jellie, I am going to be really, really, really honest with you.

When I started reading this thread I thought for sure that you were probably 13 or 14. I was shocked to learn you are my age.

You say that you don’t even want to think about marriage, so my question would be, why are you dating at all? Again, you stated that you know that dating is for marriage. This seems to be pretty cut and dry and yet you are letting your emotion get in the way of sound reasoning and logic.

You state that you know that your relationship has no real future but that you are gonna stick around anyway. I cannot say with enough emphasis that in doing that, you are doing yourself and your boyfriend a HUGE disservice. Staying in a dead-end relationship when you know it has no future…? Why?

Because, you say, you want to. Because, you say, you’re too happy with yall right now. But if that is true, why did you come here with frustration about many of your boyfriend’s actions and in need of advice?

Don’t get trapped in the pattern of denial. You say you are open to listening to what God wants but you are ignoring every warning sign that you are in an unhealthy relationship and essentially staying there because you feel like it. Sometimes God isn’t entirely clear about what he wants for us–we don’t all hear big booming voices with clear instruction on what to do with our lives.

That said, God gives us plenty of instruction on how to live our lives and what is good and what is not. Is your relationship making it easier to be a good Catholic? If it isn’t, (and it clearly isn’t) then you need to really think about leaving him. Mission dating is never good. You cannot help someone who doesn’t want to be helped.

Talk to your priest or to a spiritual director, but I guarantee they will both tell you what you’ve already heard here. I hope, however, you will consider their opinions with more weight than you’ve considered the opinions given here. God talks to us in many ways–try to listen with your head and what you know is right. Don’t let your desire to remain in a relationship get in the way of your good sense.

God bless,

Alycin

 

[GraceDK]

Jelly. Your post makes absolutely no sense to me whatsoever.
What I do reckon though is two things. You follow the desire of your flesh, regardless that the man you are dating is fornicating in a sense with his pornography and it puzzles me that you really dont seem to care.
Secondly. You make it clear that you WANT to learn the hard way. I have been there… I was as naive as you are, thinking that everything was in my control. I believe you know what is right and that the Holy Spirit is warning you but your will and flesh is not willing to act in accordance with the supreme ideal of love that Jesus is the example of…
You are playing with fire. I have been there and done that and I am still miserable because of it and will always wonder: “Why was I so stupid… what was I doing with this man?.. ETC”
You are an adult. You are free do do what you want. But please be careful.

 

[agapewolf]

I am 19; I don’t even want to begin thinking about marraige yet. I have lots to do in my life before I settle down.

I know our relationship has no real future, and it makes me sad. I’m just too happy with us right now to leave. If what ya’ll say is true, he will screw up eventually, and then I’ll go find my good catholic boy and settle down. I just don’t want that right now.

.

ALARM ALARM!

The longer you stay in a relationship, the harder it is to leave. THe more hurt there is. This is why dating is for marriage. If you emotionally invest in someone that is not marriage material, you are investing in a losing company. You are not preserving your heart for your future husband.

You’re waiting for him to screw up to leave? Geez. This is not healthy at all.

If you are not ready for marriage, then perhaps you shouldn’t be dating.

 

[DL82]

I just want to say, to protect the reputation of my ex, not that any of you know me or her, she wasn’t following the desires of the flesh, she wanted to please God too, we just disagreed on what that meant in practice.

Now, if it’s this hard when two people are both trying to please God (and I also want to say, by way of encouragement, that we both lead one another to the Catholic faith!) then it will be even harder for someone who is a devout Catholic to start with, and someone else who doesn’t seem to care about his faith.

Nonetheless, God gives us strength even in difficult situations. Jellie, if you really believe this is what God is calling you to do, and you can really do it without compromising, that makes you stronger than all the people who might judge you for what you do. Many of Our Lord’s close friends were people who the ‘religious’ of His day steered clear of. Go with what the Spirit is telling you, but don’t mistake the Spirit for your own desires, I’ve made that mistake before and learned the hard way.

Even if things go badly, God may use you as a witness to your boyfriend, but be prepared for things to go badly and be prepared to be hurt.

 

[mamacita]

ALARM ALARM!

The longer you stay in a relationship, the harder it is to leave. THe more hurt there is. This is why dating is for marriage. If you emotionally invest in someone that is not marriage material, you are investing in a losing company. You are not preserving your heart for your future husband.

You’re waiting for him to screw up to leave? Geez. This is not healthy at all.

If you are not ready for marriage, then perhaps you shouldn’t be dating.

**Bravo!!! :yup: :clapping: **

 

[Jesus_N_Cherie]

quote from one of the last ones on the previous page.
"regardless that the man you are dating is fornicating in a sense with his pornography and it puzzles me that you really dont seem to care. " end quote.

She does care. That is evident in her questions on this thread asking for words that she might be able to say to him that might get his attention. Once more, the question wasn’t about “dating versus coursthip”. It was, “I know this guy that I am dating and I would like help in knowing what I might say to him that would help him realize the truth about fornication, porn, and abortion.” She probably sees much good in him…he is, after all, a young child of God. He is worth the attempts to bring him to the truth. And just because the people on this thread see that as impossible…simply because they are in a dating relationship…that does not make it so. Once more I say that God meets us where we are. And He uses the people in our lives to bring us closer to Him…if the people are caring enough to share His words with them. He isn’t sitting on His throne in Heaven saying…“I refuse to let Jelly bring him My Truth simply because they kiss sometimes. The only people who can share my Truth and My Love are priests and teachers.” He calls all of us to be His disciples…in all walks of life. And in all times.
It SEEMS as though you are putting limitiations on God and His ability to work in this situation. And, once more, she is not sinning! She is not compromising herself in any way. Just because she sees the good in someone and has decided to date him doesn’t mean that she is sinning. And it doesn’t mean that she, rather than he, will be affected by their association. She is perfectly capable of staying clear of porn, abortion, and fornication. She has the Truth of Christ in her. He doesn’t. And he has nothing in the place of Christ either. It isn’t as though he were a pagan or pantheist. He is at a point in his life that all people come to. He is learning and changing. He has his freedom, and he is deciding who he will be for the rest of His life. Now is the perfect time to talk to him, share with him, debate with him, witness to him about the love and truth of Christ Jesus in his life.
She said she wasn’t trying to change him. But she would like to share the most important thing in her life with him…Jesus and His Truth. I think that is a great thing…whether they are dating or just friends. And hopefully, by sharing the Truth of Christ with him, he will come to understand and believe in the Truth of Christ within himself.
It seems to me that he is acting out of ignorance. There is no reason why she should not share the Knowledge of Christ with him. If she does, and he chooses to reject it…then she can move on. If she does, and he chooses to accept it…then a wonderful conversion will take place.
I’ve seen both things happen.

I hope that you all will realize that this is not a post about dating versus courtship. That is on the thread “Dating is an abomination!”

May the truth and love of Christ Jesus be with all of us.
cherie

 

[Jesus_N_Cherie]

I just want to say, to protect the reputation of my ex, not that any of you know me or her, she wasn’t following the desires of the flesh, she wanted to please God too, we just disagreed on what that meant in practice.

Now, if it’s this hard when two people are both trying to please God (and I also want to say, by way of encouragement, that we both lead one another to the Catholic faith!) then it will be even harder for someone who is a devout Catholic to start with, and someone else who doesn’t seem to care about his faith.

Nonetheless, God gives us strength even in difficult situations. Jellie, if you really believe this is what God is calling you to do, and you can really do it without compromising, that makes you stronger than all the people who might judge you for what you do. Many of Our Lord’s close friends were people who the ‘religious’ of His day steered clear of. Go with what the Spirit is telling you, but don’t mistake the Spirit for your own desires, I’ve made that mistake before and learned the hard way.

Even if things go badly, God may use you as a witness to your boyfriend, but be prepared for things to go badly and be prepared to be hurt.

Thank you. It is nice to see people on my side of the spectrum. And the things you have said are correct.

 

[agapewolf]

No one ever said that the only people that can bring Christ’s love is priests or teachers. Stop twisting the words.

When the term “teacher” is used, it doesn’t mean a person has to be an official “teacher” …it is a ROLE. It takes on a psychological pattern with people. If a person is in the teacher role with someone else, it is unhealthy to also be equal companions with them. This is why sponsors for RCIA folks are not supposed to be spouses/girlfriends/boyfriends. A vertical relationship is attained then, and it is not healthy for either type of relationship.

Again, God is the top of the triangle. Man and woman are the bottom points, and the closer one gets to God, the closer they get to each other. If they start out unequally yoked, then the one is holding on to too heavy of a burden.

 

[Jesus_N_Cherie]

No one ever said that the only people that can bring Christ’s love is priests or teachers. Stop twisting the words.

When the term “teacher” is used, it doesn’t mean a person has to be an official “teacher” …it is a ROLE. It takes on a psychological pattern with people. If a person is in the teacher role with someone else, it is unhealthy to also be equal companions with them. This is why sponsors for RCIA folks are not supposed to be spouses/girlfriends/boyfriends. A vertical relationship is attained then, and it is not healthy for either type of relationship.

Again, God is the top of the triangle. Man and woman are the bottom points, and the closer one gets to God, the closer they get to each other. If they start out unequally yoked, then the one is holding on to too heavy of a burden.

I disagree. Just because one person is more knowledgeable about a subject…God…that doesn’t mean that they should not be in a romantic relationship. There will always be, in any relationship, one who is more knowledgeable about everything. And we are always learning from each other. And we are always seeking. So, according to your logic, no one can ever be involved with anyone in a romantic way. If she wanted to learn about baseball, then by your logic, she should not be romantically involved with the baseball player she is learning about the game from. She should only be learning from someone who is a friend. Wait, I forgot for a moment that you don’t believe in dating until one is ready for marriage. By your seeming logic, the baseball player should not have anything to do with her because they are not equally yolked about the subject of baseball.

I know that using the subject of baseball is silly, but your argument seems to be just as silly. And if it would be silly about baseball, it is even more silly to apply it to God. One doesn’t have to learn about Christ from a teacher…no matter how you use the term teacher. I taught my daughter to read. Does that mean that no one else could help her sound out words? Her cousin, who is a couple of years older, helped her out when I was temporarily busy with something else. My point is, a priest would be the most informative person this guy could go and talk to, but she is a good person for him to talk to also.

 

[FdeS2]

OK, maybe another point or two in here, a bit connected with what I’ve said before:

If the relationship is going nowhere, then there should be no kissing or anything physical of that nature. If there is no kissing, hugging, holding hands, or things of that sort, please tell me how the relationship is any different than a good friendship. One should not stay in a relationship with physical intimacy (no matter how “innocent” or “toned down”) because doing those things without the future intention of discerning marriage is objectively sinful.

Exclusivity in seeing each other doesn’t make sense if there is no future either, so I don’t know that it could be a good point.

PLEASE tell me how this is a good idea…

Yours in Christ,
Daniel

 

[jmcrae]

I taught my daughter to read.

You are her parent. It is perfectly appropriate for a parent to teach the child any number of skills and attitudes.

Does that mean that no one else could help her sound out words? Her cousin, who is a couple of years older, helped her out when I was temporarily busy with something else.

Her cousin took on the role of “in the place of the parent” - that is, the role of teacher. (One assumes that they were not, at the same time, playing dolls or having a play tea party.) As the older of the two children, the cousin could easily take on the role of teacher for her younger cousin.

My point is, a priest would be the most informative person this guy could go and talk to, but she is a good person for him to talk to also.

The priest would probably recommend that they stop dating until there is some chance of a future with the relationship, regardless of who is trying to teach whom, and what.

 

[agapewolf]

I disagree. Just because one person is more knowledgeable about a subject…God…that doesn’t mean that they should not be in a romantic relationship. There will always be, in any relationship, one who is more knowledgeable about everything. And we are always learning from each other. And we are always seeking. So, according to your logic, no one can ever be involved with anyone in a romantic way. If she wanted to learn about baseball, then by your logic, she should not be romantically involved with the baseball player she is learning about the game from. She should only be learning from someone who is a friend. Wait, I forgot for a moment that you don’t believe in dating until one is ready for marriage. By your seeming logic, the baseball player should not have anything to do with her because they are not equally yolked about the subject of baseball.

I know that using the subject of baseball is silly, but your argument seems to be just as silly. And if it would be silly about baseball, it is even more silly to apply it to God. One doesn’t have to learn about Christ from a teacher…no matter how you use the term teacher. I taught my daughter to read. Does that mean that no one else could help her sound out words? Her cousin, who is a couple of years older, helped her out when I was temporarily busy with something else. My point is, a priest would be the most informative person this guy could go and talk to, but she is a good person for him to talk to also.

You can disagree all you want, but the points are made are very commonly heald understandings of relationships in psychology. Once a vertical relationship is made, then having a horizontal one is quite a feat, very different, and many times pretty unhealthy.

Baseball has nothing to do with the conversation. God and faith are NOT A TOPIC/subject of conversation…they are our actual existence that has everything to do with the eternal soul, and the sacraments here on earth. Completely different thing…its the very reason the sacrament of marriage exists…

once someone teaches something, means they take on the role of teacher. IN faith, it is more than just teaching subject matter and vocabulary. This is about a life change. THis is about eternal life. If someone becomes the instigator in someone’s else’s faith, then that person forever holds a “role”… and that relationship is different then.

 

[Jesus_N_Cherie]

OK, maybe another point or two in here, a bit connected with what I’ve said before:

If the relationship is going nowhere, then there should be no kissing or anything physical of that nature. If there is no kissing, hugging, holding hands, or things of that sort, please tell me how the relationship is any different than a good friendship. One should not stay in a relationship with physical intimacy (no matter how “innocent” or “toned down”) because doing those things without the future intention of discerning marriage is objectively sinful.

Exclusivity in seeing each other doesn’t make sense if there is no future either, so I don’t know that it could be a good point.

PLEASE tell me how this is a good idea…

Yours in Christ,
Daniel

You are arguing about whether or not this girl and guy should be dating. That is not the topic of this thread. The topic of this thread was the question of what words this girl could use in talking with this guy about abortion, pornography, premarital sex, and going to Church. She isn’t asking about whether she should be dating him or not. She is dating him. She didn’t ask anyone’s opinion on the matter.

She is asking about words she could use to talk to him…as if it didn’t matter to anyone that he was her boyfriend…on the matter of abortion, pornography, premarital sex and going to Church. But all anyone else seems able to focus on is the state of their relationship…and ***not at all ***what she asked about.

I have an idea.
Let’s pretend that they are just FRIENDS.
Then, what words could she use to bring her friend to the truth about abortion, pornography, premarital sex and going to Church?

I am not yelling. I am not yelling.
I think that Jellie deserves to have her questions answered. Not the questions that you all were pretending she was asking, but the actual ones.
Ya know, to give a person help is to give the help that they asked for, not the help ***you think ***that they need. If a person is asking you for water, and you bring bread instead of water, because you figure that at some point he will be hungry, that is not helping him. He may have asked someone else for the bread. He asked you specifically for water, and you didn’t bring it for him…so he is still thirsty.
Give Jellie the help she asked for, not the help you assumed she needs. Don’t make her stay thirsty.