How can I help my boyfriend understand?

[YADA]

Jelly,
I have read all the posts … You have received some good advice so I’ll offer only this …

September 26th of this year there will be a new movie out … it is called Fire Proof

Here is a link: fireproofthemovie.com/main.php

I pre-screened this movie a couple weeks ago with leaders from various churches and counseling organizations - both protestant and catholic [though mostly protestant] … it is produced by a protestant church in Georgia the same group that produced Facing the Giants … [interestingly - at the end of the movie they emphasize the sacramentality of marriage ]

While its theme is geared around marriage [which you say you are not interested in] it touches upon the themes of your initial OP … pornography, respect for feelings etc …

Perhaps you can get your friend to attend a movie with you …

A side note: We are going to organize a group from our parish to go to the movie when it comes out … nice to see a movie that builds upon the love of Christ and that does not glory in the brokenness of this world

 

[jmcrae]

Okay: Here’s what she needs to say to him -

Darling, I cannot compete with pornography and masturbation. I don’t have the advantages of airbrushing, photoshop enhanced breasts, or service-on-demand. Therefore, either these habits have to go, or else I have to go.

I am a chaste woman, and will not be having sex until my wedding night - either with you or with someone else. Either way, it will be someone who doesn’t (at that time) have the habits of pornography and/or masturbation. Remember all that talk about freedom and choice? Well, this is my choice, and I am free to make it.

I go to Church on Sunday mornings. If you want to be with me on Sunday mornings, that’s where you’ll find me. It’s up to you, whether you want to come, or not. I highly recommend it, but I’m not going to drag you there against your will. And by the way, if we get married, it’s going to be in Church.

 

[Feanaro_s_Wife]

Ya know, to give a person help is to give the help that they asked for, not the help ***you think ***that they need. If a person is asking you for water, and you bring bread instead of water, because you figure that at some point he will be hungry, that is not helping him. He may have asked someone else for the bread. He asked you specifically for water, and you didn’t bring it for him…so he is still thirsty.
Give Jellie the help she asked for, not the help you assumed she needs. Don’t make her stay thirsty.

But if a person is thirty and asks for water and you point out that they cannot drink with the cup they have because it has a big hole in it then you are helping them. Because no matter how much water you bring them they will not quench their thirst until they get a new cup.

 

[Jesus_N_Cherie]

Jelly,
I have read all the posts … You have received some good advice so I’ll offer only this …

September 26th of this year there will be a new movie out … it is called Fire Proof

Here is a link: fireproofthemovie.com/main.php

I pre-screened this movie a couple weeks ago with leaders from various churches and counseling organizations - both protestant and catholic [though mostly protestant] … it is produced by a protestant church in Georgia the same group that produced Facing the Giants … [interestingly - at the end of the movie they emphasize the sacramentality of marriage ]

While its theme is geared around marriage [which you say you are not interested in] it touches upon the themes of your initial OP … pornography, respect for feelings etc …

Perhaps you can get your friend to attend a movie with you …

A side note: We are going to organize a group from our parish to go to the movie when it comes out … nice to see a movie that builds upon the love of Christ and that does not glory in the brokenness of this world

EXCELLENT IDEA !!!

That is a wonderful way of bringing up the topic for conversation. And if you brought other Christians to view the movie with you both, that would give you an even better support system, Jellie.
EXCELLENT IDEA !!!

God bless,
Cherie

 

[Jesus_N_Cherie]

But if a person is thirty and asks for water and you point out that they cannot drink with the cup they have because it has a big hole in it then you are helping them. Because no matter how much water you bring them they will not quench their thirst until they get a new cup.

If you didn’t bring the water, it wouldn’t matter what the shape of the cup was, would it?

 

[Feanaro_s_Wife]

Okay: Here’s what she needs to say to him -

Darling, I cannot compete with pornography and masturbation. I don’t have the advantages of airbrushing, photoshop enhanced breasts, or service-on-demand. Therefore, either these habits have to go, or else I have to go.

I am a chaste woman, and will not be having sex until my wedding night - either with you or with someone else. Either way, it will be someone who doesn’t (at that time) have the habits of pornography and/or masturbation. Remember all that talk about freedom and choice? Well, this is my choice, and I am free to make it.

I go to Church on Sunday mornings. If you want to be with me on Sunday mornings, that’s where you’ll find me. It’s up to you, whether you want to come, or not. I highly recommend it, but I’m not going to drag you there against your will. And by the way, if we get married, it’s going to be in Church.

:clapping:
**
I would only add at the end " And by the way, if we get married, it’s going to be in Church" and only if you agree with how special marriage is and can understand the value of the Sacrament and will allow our future children to be raised in this beautiful faith and do nothing that ever contradicts it…**

 

[Feanaro_s_Wife]

If you didn’t bring the water, it wouldn’t matter what the shape of the cup was, would it?

**
But if I offered them a new cup and they refused why should I bring water?**
**
And I have started many threads asking for specific advice and have been blessed with advice from the kind people here that strayed from my original question and really ended up helping me out. Sometimes we don’t even know that we should be asking a different question.**

No one who has offered advice so far wants anything other that what is best for jellie. Many of the posters even shared very personal accounts of what happened to them in similar situations. Most of the posters want what is best for the young man as well, but not at jellie’s expense.

 

[mamacita]

:clapping:
**
I would only add at the end " And by the way, if we get married, it’s going to be in Church" and only if you agree with how special marriage is and can understand the value of the Sacrament and will allow our future children to be raised in this beautiful faith and do nothing that ever contradicts it…**

**

I would also tell him 'in addition to if we ever get married (and in THEE church) I want you to take an NFP class w/ me beforehand so we can be on the same page w/ that as well." **

 

[FdeS2]

You are arguing about whether or not this girl and guy should be dating. That is not the topic of this thread. The topic of this thread was the question of what words this girl could use in talking with this guy about abortion, pornography, premarital sex, and going to Church. She isn’t asking about whether she should be dating him or not. She is dating him. She didn’t ask anyone’s opinion on the matter.

She is asking about words she could use to talk to him…as if it didn’t matter to anyone that he was her boyfriend…on the matter of abortion, pornography, premarital sex and going to Church. But all anyone else seems able to focus on is the state of their relationship…and ***not at all ***what she asked about.

I have an idea.
Let’s pretend that they are just FRIENDS.
Then, what words could she use to bring her friend to the truth about abortion, pornography, premarital sex and going to Church?

I am not yelling. I am not yelling.
I think that Jellie deserves to have her questions answered. Not the questions that you all were pretending she was asking, but the actual ones.
Ya know, to give a person help is to give the help that they asked for, not the help ***you think ***that they need. If a person is asking you for water, and you bring bread instead of water, because you figure that at some point he will be hungry, that is not helping him. He may have asked someone else for the bread. He asked you specifically for water, and you didn’t bring it for him…so he is still thirsty.
Give Jellie the help she asked for, not the help you assumed she needs. Don’t make her stay thirsty.

Dear Jesus N Cherie,

God bless you!

Pretending will not work. The fact that she is dating him is understood. The fact that she has been told that she should not remain in her current state has been established. The fact that he will not really listen to her points has been stated.

If he will not listen, he cannot learn.

If he cannot learn, he cannot change.

If he cannot change, he should not be with her, because he cannot later become anything more.

There is no reason to date someone if there is no intention to marry. Physicality should not take place until this type of relationship (focused on marriage) is established.

Dating to be a placeholder is unhealthy and simply wrong.

Friendship is the best and only logical arrangement for the type of work she wants to do.

jmcrae told us what she should say… listen to jmcrae, please…

Yours in Christ,
Daniel

 

[Jesus_N_Cherie]

Quote from previous page: "Her cousin took on the role of “in the place of the parent” - that is, the role of teacher. (One assumes that they were not, at the same time, playing dolls or having a play tea party.) As the older of the two children, the cousin could easily take on the role of teacher for her younger cousin. "end quote.

Actually, her cousin was 7 years old, hardly the age of an “appropriate” teacher. He was allowing her to read him a book one day. Age has nothing to do with helping someone. Another analogy: When my son wants me to make him something to eat, he pulls out the food to help me many times…before I agree to make him that certain food. And usually I do, because he is important to me and I care about him. And before you say that it is my responsibility to feed my son, let me say that I know my responsibility is to feed him. It is not, however, my responsibility to give him the food that he asks for.

 

[Jesus_N_Cherie]

You can disagree all you want, but the points are made are very commonly heald understandings of relationships in psychology. Once a vertical relationship is made, then having a horizontal one is quite a feat, very different, and many times pretty unhealthy.

Baseball has nothing to do with the conversation. God and faith are NOT A TOPIC/subject of conversation…they are our actual existence that has everything to do with the eternal soul, and the sacraments here on earth. Completely different thing…its the very reason the sacrament of marriage exists…

once someone teaches something, means they take on the role of teacher. IN faith, it is more than just teaching subject matter and vocabulary. This is about a life change. THis is about eternal life. If someone becomes the instigator in someone’s else’s faith, then that person forever holds a “role”… and that relationship is different then.

You are wrong. I teach my children some things…and many times they say things that teach me a lot. If they read or are taught by others something that benefited them, they share the information with me. So I am learning also. Between people, there is not just a teacher and a student. They are people conversing about things important to them. Sometimes the first party will learn from the second party, and vice versa.

 

[Jesus_N_Cherie]

Okay: Here’s what she needs to say to him -

Darling, I cannot compete with pornography and masturbation. I don’t have the advantages of airbrushing, photoshop enhanced breasts, or service-on-demand. Therefore, either these habits have to go, or else I have to go.

I am a chaste woman, and will not be having sex until my wedding night - either with you or with someone else. Either way, it will be someone who doesn’t (at that time) have the habits of pornography and/or masturbation. Remember all that talk about freedom and choice? Well, this is my choice, and I am free to make it.

I go to Church on Sunday mornings. If you want to be with me on Sunday mornings, that’s where you’ll find me. It’s up to you, whether you want to come, or not. I highly recommend it, but I’m not going to drag you there against your will. And by the way, if we get married, it’s going to be in Church.

Is that HONESTLY the best you can do? There was no kindness, no reason he should want to choose the right thing in the attitude you would throw at him. It isn’t so much that there was ANYTHING at all wrong in what you said, only the way that you said it. Do you honestly think that Christ would have any of us talk in that tone or attitude? Especially when we are extending an invitation to make good choices to someone who is not being hostile to us.

 

[Jesus_N_Cherie]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Feanaro’s Wife
But if a person is thirty and asks for water and you point out that they cannot drink with the cup they have because it has a big hole in it then you are helping them. Because no matter how much water you bring them they will not quench their thirst until they get a new cup.

Posted by Cherie
"If you didn’t bring the water, it wouldn’t matter what the shape of the cup was, would it?"end quote

Also, how do you know that he didn’t also ask the person who is bringing the bread to also bring an extra cup?

---

Lord Jesus, let us feel Your overwhelming Presence! and fill us with an undeniable, unquenchable hunger and thirst for You, and Your way, truth and life. Amen.

 

[Jesus_N_Cherie]

One more thing for the moment.

She is not trying to be a “teacher”. She simply wishes to converse with someone she cares about in order for him to make more informed decisions about certain topics. She is not there to preach to him. She wants to have a discussion. I cannot find fault with that. What do you all have against people discussing things so relevant to our faith with anyone that they see who may not be informed about the Truth of Jesus Christ? If they were just friends, would it be okay for her to share her knowledge? If the answer is yes, then it is just as okay to share her knowledge with him now. It isn’t about the sharing of knowledge that you all have a problem with…or so it seems. It is in the fact that she is dating someone who is not perfect. And that is not what the topic of this thread is about.

 

[jmcrae]

It is in the fact that she is dating someone who is not perfect.

It’s not that he’s “not perfect.” It’s that he shows all the danger signs of a potential abuser and stalker. He isn’t listening to her or wanting to discuss anything with her.

Would you let your 5-year-old daughter play in the sandbox with a boy who shows her his penis, and throws sand in her eyes “all in fun” if she refuses to take off her dress, in the hopes that she will convert him to the Catholic faith simply by gracing him with her presence? It’s a similar scenario, actually.

 

[YADA]

One more thing for the moment.

She is not trying to be a “teacher”. She simply wishes to converse with someone she cares about in order for him to make more informed decisions about certain topics. She is not there to preach to him. She wants to have a discussion. I cannot find fault with that. What do you all have against people discussing things so relevant to our faith with anyone that they see who may not be informed about the Truth of Jesus Christ? If they were just friends, would it be okay for her to share her knowledge? If the answer is yes, then it is just as okay to share her knowledge with him now. It isn’t about the sharing of knowledge that you all have a problem with…or so it seems. It is in the fact that she is dating someone who is not perfect. And that is not what the topic of this thread is about.

While I generally feel [like many of the other posters] that she should refrain from the BF/GF relationship, it does appear that she desires that BF/GF relationship while at the same time having reservations … she has looked at this young man and wants to make a ‘difference’ in his life … however, how does the conversation get started … obviously he is not ging to just get religion nor the desire to commune with his fellow catholics … just as obviously he is not able to see the harm of pornography in a culture that says it is “Free Speech” Ditto with abortion … even the majority of catholic politicians have bought into the “Its a choice” …

That is why I recommended the movie … having seen it, I can say that it confronts the issue of pornography and its destructive forces on relationships head on … it is action packed enough to appeal to the men [a wrecked car on the train tracks - train coming] and is sprinkled with humor … even the evangelization comes off in a way that Jelly and her BF may recognize “I’m glad you and mom are happy you found Jesus but Dad that is just not my thing” [Or something close to that - its been two weeks since I saw the movie] … an eveing out for “entertainment” might just spark the discussion or just plant the seed in the rrcesses of his brain [and heart] …

And pornography is destructive to marriages and relationships … this I know from personal experience… and it does not get better with time unless the one addicted has an epithany of major proportions …

 

[Jesus_N_Cherie]

It’s not that he’s “not perfect.” It’s that he shows all the danger signs of a potential abuser and stalker. He isn’t listening to her or wanting to discuss anything with her.

Would you let your 5-year-old daughter play in the sandbox with a boy who shows her his penis, and throws sand in her eyes “all in fun” if she refuses to take off her dress, in the hopes that she will convert him to the Catholic faith simply by gracing him with her presence? It’s a similar scenario, actually.

Oh, please. I have been in relationships with people who wound up being really bad news. He shows no signs of being an abuser, or a stalker. An abuser and a stalker are obsessive in their possessiveness toward a person.

This guy isn’t showing those signs. You all are being Hyper sensitive. So up till now he hasn’t been shown evidence that abortion is wrong, pre-marital sex is wrong, he needs to go to Church and pornography is demoralizing. And you assume that makes him a STALKER? And still, you are telling her not to share her knowledge of those things being wrong with him!!! How do you expect him to understand that those things are important if you are taking away from him the only person in his life who is willing to share the TRUTH with him? He hasn’t up till now had any reason to go to a priest or morality school to find a teacher. And there is no reason that she shouldn’t share her knowledge with him.
She already stated that he had just had an argument with his mom when he read the email and responded to the website about the evils of pornography. She said that he had been in a bad mood when he finished the argument with his mom. She also said that he had apologized for having spoken to her the way he did. And she said that after he argues with his mom, he is always stubborn.
Okay…I can hear it now. You will say that she is trying to make excuses for his “abusive” behavior. Gimme a break! Who out there on this thread NEVER says anything wrong or gets angry after having an argument with someone and stays angry for a little while? And if someone comes to you with something you are not ready to deal with at that time, who out there never says rash or unjust things?
If anyone of you say that you never do, I would say that your parish priests sit alone in the Confessional every week. And I would say that you are truly saints, and should be ellevated to the highest points. And then, I would call you a liar.
Why is it that when you do it, it doesn’t make you a EVIL person…only someone who did something wrong who has to make reparation for it, but he is an abusive stalker?
Reality, people. Reality.

I am still not yelling.
God bless,
Cherie

 

[agapewolf]

And someone might “ask” for “help” in hanging themselves, or sugar to sweeten their poison. We don’t give them those things.

Sometimes people don’t know what kind of help they need. A lot of us are seeing potential dangers here, and trying to stop her from drinking poison. (as I have said before a few times…people addicted to pornography can turn seriously dangerous…and he doens’t even believe its wrong…all the more dangerous).

 

[Pro-Life_Teen]

Alright, I have been following this thread for a while now. I PMed Jellie near the beginning of it all, and now I’m going to change that view a little and post my say publicly.

Jesus N Cherie, I was with you for a while. I can grasp having a significant other not of the faith and wishing to spread the Truth. That you’re dating doesn’t mean their off-limits for discussions. My love and I chat often, we’re both into philosophy and debates, we have different views- so we talk.

But this is more than a friendly debate or even a semi-formal discussion. He refused her ideas. He apologized for being mean, but the deed was done. I’d never talk down to boyfriend about his views, and he has never done that to me either.

Now I realize this was one incident and we have only a little of the story, but this got me. She said she had no intention of marrying him.

Dating is for marriage. One looks for their spouse by dating. If you believe you won’t ever marry your significant other, there’s no point in staying in the relationship. Be friends, but don’t cuddle and kiss and form emotional attachments that will only cause pain in the end.

I know the thread isn’t about that. But it’s come up, and fairly I can side-track the thread for a moment, because it is for her own good. She’s trying to give him help, now I’m trying to help her.

A relationship that isn’t, and won’t ever, end in marriage to someone who has fallen away from the Faith, and acts as he does, isn’t meant to keep going.

If this was her fiance, or even a serious boyfriend she thought she could marry, I could live with telling her to stay and fight the good fight. To pray, to get books for him, to send him links, to bring him to Church and to see a Priest. But it isn’t. It’s a relationship that will end.

Now, having said that… pray for him, get him books, send him links, and bring him to Church. Because he is your friend. But I don’t advise to stay in the relationship as it is. It makes no logical sense to me, to become so close to someone that you know will do something stupid and you’ll break up with him.

Help him because he is your friend. Help him as a friend. If things manage to turn around somehow and you can see him in a “marrying” light, go ahead and date. But dating for the sake of dating isn’t healthy. Dating because you properly love someone and believe that you can perhaps end up married some day- that’s allowing, should be encouraged more, and is overall better.

 

[speaker1777]

I just want to add one more thing because my heart or conscience was being pulled to say this.

Please be careful with someone who thinks pre-marital sex is okay. There should never a confusion as to how love & sex are related as I suppose this person may have ignorance about. And maybe this could help him see the light. One might say, if you love me, you would consent to my desire to sexual intercourse or anything that would make me ‘feel good’. (of course i suppose it isn’t said to eloquently.) This, beloved of Jesus, is a misunderstanding of love & sex. If, a person loved you, they would reserve their whole self for you and not fill their minds with sexual images of other women. Also, if a person loved you, he would not consider having sex until it was considered that he might have children with you. And further, a fruit of love is that a new soul is brought into the world, if the love is real, why destroy what love has brought into the world? Should not this love be cherished? But if this is not a mission in finding love for the both of you, what is the mission? Staying with each other until you have had enough? Love endures forever. But I also want to note that sex & love are not always tied together. Sex may be a fruit of love accompanied in marriage, but as a member of the body of Christ, love is not always complimentary to sex. Charity as it may also be understood is the loving of God because of his goodness and the loving of neighbor by virtue of the love for God. This love does not wish the pleasuring of one’s flesh if it means the aid of another soul. Who needs to have sex? Only married people do. Having sex with no rules shows that sex is only ment to satisfy the urge of the body, but we are called to something greater.

You may already know these things or not. I just wanted to give you what ideas have helped me overcome my sins similar to your boyfriends condition but probably different. This may or may not help. The Lord be with you.