How can I pray so much and still commit the same sins?

  • Thread starter Thread starter gez722
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
G

gez722

Guest
About 2 years ago, I experienced a major conversion in my life. Since that time, I have said the Divine Office daily, attended daily Mass, gone to confession every 2 weeks, volunteered for numerous ministries at my parish, pray the rosary each day and do spiritual reading.

I’ve always had a problem with being selfish. Not so much with my wife and kids, but with other individuals. I’ve also been prone to sinning with my words, as I can be very sarcastic.

Yesterday, I slipped and started spewing out some nasty things that were basically rooted in my selfishness. Something is happening in my life that will cause me to be inconvenienced and it was bothering me internally. When the topic came up, I just started spouting off at the mouth (no foul language, but plenty of biting comments). The person that I was complaining to said “I thought you were different, but you haven’t changed at all” (in other words, I’m still a jerk). As someone who tries extremely hard to set a good example for others, I felt completely defeated by this experience. I thought that I changed too, but I felt like the same old sinner that I was before my conversion.

I know that I have 2 major areas that I need work on… selfishness and my mouth. They usually go hand in hand as my selfishness generally causes me to sin with my words.

At this point I feel like a failure. I know that the Lord is giving me the grace from the frequent reception of the Eucharist and Penance, but I don’t feel like I’m responding to that grace. I want to change internally and care more about others even when it’s painful, but it doesn’t seem to be happening.

I’d appreciate any advice.

God Bless,
Gary
 
with the help of the priest in confession, or from a spiritual director, try to uncover which one of the capital sins underlies your habitual sin. For instance, a habitual gambler may have the sin of greed or envy, the person who ignores duties may have the sin of sloth. He will tell you what is the complimentary virtue to work on, and how to form habits that strenghten that virtue. that is not “try to be nicer” but actual habits, positive things you can do.

If it turns out, which is probably the case for a lot of us, that there is something very deep seated, such as an anger with roots in childhood experiences, etc. some of us may even need professional counselling to deal with that.

that is one reason, by the way, that it is very good to find one priest and go to him all the time.

Getting Free by Bert Ghazzi is an excellent Catholic-centered book on how to let go of these habitual sins and their root causes, especially anger.
 
The closer we get to God, the harder evil is going to try to pull us back. Keep praying and keep trying. But don’t be discouraged, with God all things are possible! 🙂

~Liza
 
I had a strong conversion experience as well about 1/12 years ago. And yes, I had someone say that I haven’t change at all because of my slipups. Because of your conversion experience , you have a strong and hopeful testimony. Satan will relentessly try to discredit your testimony. Don’t give in to loosing the hope you first had. If you do, then you start to loose hope for others and your testimony starts to die. When I first had my experience , I wanted to tell the world, I still do. Because of how much I tried to tell my family and friends about how my life was saved, I became the target of some serious spiritual attacks. I started to see things. This scared the daylights out of me and has gotten me lockedup 5 times in the last year because of panic attacks. Believe me, when you tell someone you have seen demons, you get locked up for evaluation. Don’t let sin discourage you. Keep your wits.Partake in the sacraments. Remember the first time you where forgiven and how that felt. Don’t loose hope. Keep working on the change of heart, that for me is the hardest and final part of the conversion experience. Tim
 
How can you pray so much and still sin? Imagine how bad it could get if you did not pray.

The saints are not people who never sinned. They are the ones who keep getting up every time they fall.

It is pride that causes us to be shocked and disappointed by our sins. Be very small - a child. Do not be surprised by your weaknesses and falls. Get up, go to confession, and cheerfully get on with things.

The person who told you that you had not changed will be edified to see you get up and try again.

The struggle never ends until we die. Just keep trying. God is pleased with your sincere effort, and even more pleased to forgive you and help you begin again.

Betsy
 
gez722 said:
About 2 years ago, I experienced a major conversion in my life. Since that time, I have said the Divine Office daily, attended daily Mass, gone to confession every 2 weeks, volunteered for numerous ministries at my parish, pray the rosary each day and do spiritual reading.

I’ve always had a problem with being selfish. Not so much with my wife and kids, but with other individuals. I’ve also been prone to sinning with my words, as I can be very sarcastic.

Yesterday, I slipped and started spewing out some nasty things that were basically rooted in my selfishness. Something is happening in my life that will cause me to be inconvenienced and it was bothering me internally. When the topic came up, I just started spouting off at the mouth (no foul language, but plenty of biting comments). The person that I was complaining to said “I thought you were different, but you haven’t changed at all” (in other words, I’m still a jerk). As someone who tries extremely hard to set a good example for others, I felt completely defeated by this experience. I thought that I changed too, but I felt like the same old sinner that I was before my conversion.

I know that I have 2 major areas that I need work on… selfishness and my mouth. They usually go hand in hand as my selfishness generally causes me to sin with my words.

At this point I feel like a failure. I know that the Lord is giving me the grace from the frequent reception of the Eucharist and Penance, but I don’t feel like I’m responding to that grace. I want to change internally and care more about others even when it’s painful, but it doesn’t seem to be happening.

I’d appreciate any advice.

God Bless,
Gary
Click to expand...
I feel the same way about myself. Here’s my two cents:

Change externally and forget about how you feel. All the great saints had their doubts about themselves. Meeting you might be the only chance someone has to meet a real saint - don’t let them down.

“Preach the Gospel at all times and when necessary use words.” - St. Francis of Assisi

And, of course, love your enemies. If you’re belittling someone, you are probably envious of them. Try building them up even higher instead. If something is inconveniencing you, think about all the ways that something is benefitting others, and talk about that instead. Be the bigger man.

And stop trying to be an example to others. Fr. Larry Richards once said something like, “Be like Jesus. Don’t be like Fr. Larry. Being like Fr. Larry will only get you to Hell.”

Wow, it’s really easy to give advice to other people. Guess I have to take my own medicine now.

God bless.
 
Praise God, Gary. He surely must love you a lot. He is directly leading you through the words of another.

Perhaps there was a little too much pride in your conversion. The receiver of the gifts of God - such as the gift of faith - have only thankfulness and humility to express.

It looks like God is testing you Gary. Get up, dust yourself off, beg God’s forgiveness, and start trying all over again. It’s good advice that someone gave to find a regular confessor who will be able to see your progress and correct your path.

You might want to stop focusing on setting yourself up as an example and wholeheartedly strive instead to focus on following Christ’s example.

Goodness, we are all sinners Gary. With a lifetime of sins, I know it’s sometimes discouraging when the same ones keep popping up when we think we’ve overcome them years ago. I suppse we all need to vigilant and continually accept God’s reconversion in our lives.

I will remember you to God in my prayers.
 
Paganus said:
“Preach the Gospel at all times and when necessary use words.” - St. Francis of Assisi

And stop trying to be an example to others. Fr. Larry Richards once said something like, “Be like Jesus. Don’t be like Fr. Larry. Being like Fr. Larry will only get you to Hell.”
Click to expand...
I appreciate the advice, but these two statements seem to contradict each other. By my actions, I’m trying to show others how Jesus would behave in various situations. When I slip, people can get the false message that it’s ok to act like a jerk sometimes. As a matter of fact someone once said that they felt better when they saw me lose my temper. I don’t want to be responsible for leading others astray. Rather I want to show them that a Christian should not lose their temper and say nasty things.

On the other hand, I do agree somewhat with the idea that I need to clean up my own faults before I can worry about being an example to others. Unfortunately, life doesn’t happen in a vacuum and people (mainly my family) do look to me as an example of how to act in certain situations. They aren’t going to wait until I’ve gotten rid of all my faults.

Please don’t think that I’m criticizing your post (because I’m not). I just want to understand those 2 statements better. Any further explanation would be most appreciated.

God Bless,
Gary
 
As difficult as it is for all of us to lessen or eliminate sins, one of the best ways to tackle those that are bothering you is to focus instead on positively developing whatever virtues are most incompatible with them.

People who are trying to lose weight are often told to concentrate on the fact of positively developing habits of healthy eating and living that will make them better off. Because its not all, and should not all be, an unremittingly or predominantly negative experience.

So with sin - you’re putting on a new and better person each day, each hour, with each action and each thought. At the end of your day (or more often even) go over the good and positive things you’ve done and experienced and give thanks for them as well as taking stock of any sins - this will give you a more balanced and less gloomy view of yourself.
 
Pride is the root of these problems, and it is a common sin so to speak. I have the same problem too and I admit to others about my problem. Before, I had denied it, and it was hard for me to change.

I think that first we should admit the problems and find its root, then come to the Lord and tell Him all about it, and ask Him to make you a childlike person. On our part, we should pray at all time, and when we realize we are about to get out of control, say a quick prayer right away. This was how I dealt with my hot temper.

We can also pray with the saints for intercession. St. Rita had prayed for her husband to change. He used to have very hot temper.
 
gez722 said:
I appreciate the advice, but these two statements seem to contradict each other. By my actions, I’m trying to show others how Jesus would behave in various situations. When I slip, people can get the false message that it’s ok to act like a jerk sometimes. As a matter of fact someone once said that they felt better when they saw me lose my temper. I don’t want to be responsible for leading others astray. Rather I want to show them that a Christian should not lose their temper and say nasty things.
Click to expand...
You will never be able to be Jesus. You can only show others how a saint would behave in various situations - including how a saint behaves when he fails.

The goal is not to inspire others to stare at you in admiration. The goal is to inspire others to look through you to Jesus.

We are not Christians because we are good - we are Christians because we are sinners. If someone is glad that you are also a sinner, do not retreat and try to perfect your relationship with God alone - this is the time to charge. This is your opportunity to invite them to pray for you.
gez722 said:
On the other hand, I do agree somewhat with the idea that I need to clean up my own faults before I can worry about being an example to others. Unfortunately, life doesn’t happen in a vacuum and people (mainly my family) do look to me as an example of how to act in certain situations. They aren’t going to wait until I’ve gotten rid of all my faults.

Please don’t think that I’m criticizing your post (because I’m not). I just want to understand those 2 statements better. Any further explanation would be most appreciated.

God Bless,
Gary
Click to expand...
How are we better than Satan?
Are you a drunk? Neither is he.
Are you an adulterer? Neither is he.
Do you deny yourself sleep? He never sleeps.
Do you fast? He never eats.
Do you study Scripture? He watched it being written.

But he has no humility at all.

“I do not pray for success, I ask for faithfulness.” Mother Teresa
 
Brother don’t worry, that is, know it is there, and think of what Jesus would do in that situation.
I find the words of **James 3: 5 **comforting by saying them over and over. I also as soon as I slip appologise to Jesus and ask for that person to be blessed.

St Therese the little flower saw herself as a little baby bird not able to get up to the father bird. So she would ask our Father in Heaven to help her get up another stair. That is to attain the grace to get her through the situation she had. If yo read her books you will find that she would walk into the people nobody wanted to be with find it hard andask for help.
I have beendoing it for ever.
I have a son who has a girlfriend with enough faults that no one wants to go near her. The family don’t understand how I can stay with her. I asked Jesus to help and He said “Just Love” so I have and now the reverse has happened.

You can’t love and hate at the same time choose to love.
Read 1 Corinthians 13 to get a deeper perspective if you wish.
God bless.
 
Here is a discussion we had on another forum titled
**Saint Gregory of Sinai - Living Christ’s Life Progressively

** Everyone baptized into Christ should pass progressively through all the stages of Christ’s own life, for in baptism he receives the power so to progress, and through the commandments he can discover and learn how to accomplish such progression.
St Gregory of Sinai

byzcath.org/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=130073&page=0&fpart=1
 
Also, this prayer brings about wonderful healing in the areas that you mentioned. In the Eastern Church this prayer is done particularly during Great and Holy Lent with full prostrations to the Altar - who is Christ.

THE PRAYER OF ST. EPHREM THE SYRIAN

Of all the lenten prayers, the Prayer of St. Ephrem stands all alone.

O Lord and Master of my life!
Take from me the spirit of sloth, faint-heartedness, lust of power,and idle talk.(prostrate)
But give rather the spirit of chastity, humility, patience and love to your servant.(prostrate)
Yes, O Lord and King!
Grant me to see my own errors and not judge my brother;
For you are blessed to ages of ages. Amen.(prostrate)

This beautiful prayer presents all the negative and positive elements of repentance and is a “check list” for our lenten effort. Its aim is to free us from some fundamental spiritual diseases which control our life and make it impossible for us even to turn our lives in God’s direction.

SLOTH is the basic problem. It is a disease that renders us lazy and which convinces us that no change is possible . It is the root of all sin because “it poisons the spiritual energy at its source.”

FAINT-HEARTEDNESS is the result of sloth. It is a despondecy that makes it impossible for man to see anything good or positive. It reduces everything to negativism and pessimism.

LUST OF POWER The previous vices of sloth and faint-heartedness cause our lives to be motivated with a lust of power. When life is seen as of no value but meaningless and empty we are forced “to seek compensation in a radically wrong attitude towards other persons.” If my life is not directed to God and his will, then it becomes selfish and looks for selfsatisfaction, self-gratification. “If God is not the Lord and Master of my life, then I become my own Lord and master—the absolute center of my own world.” I then live to fulfill my needs, my desires, and my ideas. This lust of power is seen as "a fundamental depravity in my relationship to other beings, a search for their subordination to me… It may certainly result in indifference, contempt, lack of interest, consideration, and respect.

IDLE TALK Words have a certain power all their own. Words can uplift and save but also kill. When the word is removed "from its divine origin and purpose,the word becomes idle. It becomes the very agent of sin.

The above four are the obstacles to repentance and need to be removed. However, only God can remove them. The remaining parts of the prayer consider the positive aims of repentance.

CHASTITY. This does not refer to sexual purity. The Greek word sofrosini may be translated whole-mindedness. It means to possess the gift of wholeness as opposed to the brokeness which the above vices cause. Christ alone can restore wholeness in us by “restoring in us the true scale of values leading us back to God.”

HUMILITY. The first fruit of this wholeness is humility. Humility alone “is capable of truth, of seeing and accepting things as they are and therefore of seeing God’s majesty and goodness and love in everything.”

PATIENCE. This virtue is the fruit of the other two. The “fallen” man is impatient and ready to judge and condemn others. This leads him to have a broken, incomplete and distorted knowledge of everything. “Being indifferent to everyone except himself, he wants life to be successful right here and now.” The closer we come to God the more patient we become and the “more we reflect that infinite respect for all things which is the proper quality of God.”

LOVE. This divine gift is the crown of all the virtues . Love is the sum total of all our quests. Who truly loves as God wants us to love, will be given in full measure this ultimate gift of all virtues.

The prayer summarizes all of the above and offers the concluding petition: “to see my own errors and not to judge my brother.” We are called to be very careful of pride. Often times even virtues can be turned into pride. The Fathers constantly warn us of the grave dangers of pride and of the subtle forms of false piety. But when we see "our own errors " and “do not judge our brothers” then pride will be destroyed in us.
go-stjohns.org/ReligiousEd/OnLine/Pascha/GreatLent/PrayerOfEphrem.asp _________________________
Pani Rose
 
gez722 said:
At this point I feel like a failure. I know that the Lord is giving me the grace from the frequent reception of the Eucharist and Penance, but I don’t feel like I’m responding to that grace. I want to change internally and care more about others even when it’s painful, but it doesn’t seem to be happening.

I’d appreciate any advice.
Click to expand...
Consider yourself to be in good company. Look what St. Paul had to say:
I cannot even understand my own actions. I do not do what I want to do but what I hate… What happens is that I do, not the good I will to do, but the evil I do not intend. (Romans 7: 15, 19 … but read the whole book)
Click to expand...
And again:
It is important that we continue on our course, no matter what stage we have reached. (Philippians 3:16 … but again, read it all)
Click to expand...
Just continue to seek the graces of the sacraments.
 
gez722 said:
About 2 years ago, I experienced a major conversion in my life. Since that time, I have said the Divine Office daily, attended daily Mass, gone to confession every 2 weeks, volunteered for numerous ministries at my parish, pray the rosary each day and do spiritual reading.

I’ve always had a problem with being selfish. Not so much with my wife and kids, but with other individuals. I’ve also been prone to sinning with my words, as I can be very sarcastic.

Yesterday, I slipped and started spewing out some nasty things that were basically rooted in my selfishness. Something is happening in my life that will cause me to be inconvenienced and it was bothering me internally. When the topic came up, I just started spouting off at the mouth (no foul language, but plenty of biting comments). The person that I was complaining to said “I thought you were different, but you haven’t changed at all” (in other words, I’m still a jerk). As someone who tries extremely hard to set a good example for others, I felt completely defeated by this experience. I thought that I changed too, but I felt like the same old sinner that I was before my conversion.

I know that I have 2 major areas that I need work on… selfishness and my mouth. They usually go hand in hand as my selfishness generally causes me to sin with my words.

At this point I feel like a failure. I know that the Lord is giving me the grace from the frequent reception of the Eucharist and Penance, but I don’t feel like I’m responding to that grace. I want to change internally and care more about others even when it’s painful, but it doesn’t seem to be happening.

I’d appreciate any advice.

God Bless,
Gary
Click to expand...
God allows you to fall in this way to teach you humility. Talk to your confessor about this.
 
There is no magic nor auto-reward system because of all your “good” works. It is admirable that you have realized that getting out of yourself by doing for others is a better course but consider this, prior to your conversion pride formed you-it won’t be easy to shake, if ever. What they saw was the “old” you but the fact that they did see a change by even stating that they “thought you were different” shows your progress. Yes, you slipped, but you haven’t fully failed.

I repeated my major sin because I hadn’t embraced the shortness of this life and the length of eternity-typical when blinded by pride. I had to be grabbed by the scruff to sense it’s edge. John Lennon’s “Imagine there’s no Heaven…” is desolate in prospect but it’s not the void that is terrible, it’s the prospect of being shut out of God’s house, never to partake, and to ever remain on the outside. In hopes that you don’t have to make that journey, consider this from Fr. Helmut Libietis’ Consecration to Mary: St. Louis de Montfort’s “True Devotion”, Tips on Prayer and Meditation":

#4 We should amend our life.-If we persist in leading a life of sin, then we greatly handicap the chances of having our prayers heard. “He who turns his ears from the law, his prayer is an abomination.” (Prov. 28:9).

That means not only putting childish things away but also those things when you were a child where you had no control. Look at the here and now as an adult, find and make that change not in what you think or “feel” is right (pride again) but in accordance with the Church.

Having been a spoiled only-child for my first 10 years- I, too, deal with my engrained pride in selfishness. It lurks just below the surface and I have to watch for it always and I, too, slip but in different and even sneakier ways. Still, rejoice, and be thankful that you now note it and that you grow in your disdain of/for it. That is a grace you did not cultivate before! It is also a cross to bear so take care that, unlike Simeon, you do not grumble for it’s burden. Shoulder that cross, give it a good thump, know it’s there and press on! Which Saint said, “The first thought you cannot help, but the second one you control.”?
 
Thanks for all of the great posts. I really learned something from reading them. I do have a problem with pride and was starting to believe that I would no longer be able to slip and commit my “old sins”. This incident reminds me that “it ain’t over until it’s over”. I went to confession this weekend and I think I’ll start going weekly from now on.

May God bless all of you for your thoughtful words of advice… they have helped me to become more humble.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top