How can Mary be without sin?

[Abira]

Mary is a decendent of Adam (Luke 3) and so she is with sin like everyone who went before her after the original sin,

(1:ki, 8:46) If they sin against thee (for there is no man that sinneth not)…

(Gal, 3:22) For the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

Also Mary herself recognsed her need to be saved.

(Luke 1:47) And my spirit hath rejoiced in my God my Saviour.

I don’t understand how Mary can be without sin because she is just a person like everyone else.

 

[crmcfl]

I don’t understand how Mary can be without sin because she is just a person like everyone else.

She isn’t like everyone else. She was preserved by God from original sin. We weren’t.

 

[FCEGM]

Mary is a decendent of Adam (Luke 3) and so she is with sin like everyone who went before her after the original sin,

(1:ki, 8:46) If they sin against thee (for there is no man that sinneth not)…

(Gal, 3:22) For the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

Also Mary herself recognsed her need to be saved.

(Luke 1:47) And my spirit hath rejoiced in my God my Saviour.

I don’t understand how Mary can be without sin because she is just a person like everyone else.

This article addresses your questions:

catholic.com/library/Immaculate_Conception_and_Assum.asp

Welcome to the forum!

 

[Abira]

where does it say that Mary was without sin in the Bible, and why then would she need to be saved if she was perfect already in the eyes of God?

 

[FCEGM]

where does it say that Mary was without sin in the Bible, and why then would she need to be saved if she was perfect already in the eyes of God?

See the article at the link just posted.

 

[VociMike]

where does it say that Mary was without sin in the Bible, and why then would she need to be saved if she was perfect already in the eyes of God?

You’re going to get all the answers to your question from others here. I want to pose another question to you in return. If Christ has united God’s divine nature with our human nature (as we know He did), and if Christ is perfect (as we know He is), how can He be the perfect unification of perfect divine nature and perfect human nature if the source of His human nature was an imperfect, corrupted woman?

 

[mark_a]

Taking single scripture quotes to disprove another’s point is futile.
Invariably, your single quote will be contradicted by another single quote or quotes.

Ex. Jesus said you must hate your mother and father. The 10 commandments tell us to honor them.

Paul said call no man “father”, then calls himself “father”.

“All” have sinned, “all” were baptised (problematic for anti-infant baptizers)

I don’t understand how Mary can be without sin because she is just a person like everyone else.

If you are interested in a “bible only” Catholic response to any beliefs, please visit biblechristiansociety.com.

 

[carol_marie]

Are you saying that God couldn’t have made Mary sinless?

With God all things are possible!

 

[NotWorthy]

Abira, Welcome to the Forums!!!

Are you familiar with the Catholic teaching that Mary is the Ark of the New Covenant? It’s a fascinating journey through the Old Testament and the New Testament detailing all the parallels between Mary and the Ark of the Old Covenant.

It helps explain why the OT spent so much time detailing how pure the Ark of the Old Covenant was to be made (Inlaid with pure gold, made of the finest Acacia Wood, not to be touched by anyone but the Levite Priesthood, etc.)

Once you understand how Mary is the Ark of the New Covenant, then you begin to understand how Mary is pure as well, (i.e. sinless).

 

[NotWorthy]

If you study the ProtoEvangelium, you’ll get a clearer picture. In brief, Gen 3:15 tells of the punishment God is going to give to the Serpent in the Garden for the whole “Apple-Gate” incident. “I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your seed and hers; He will strike at your head, while you strike at his heel.”.

God is not referring to Eve in this, because Eve did not have a “Seed”. All of their children were the seed of Adam’s. Only one person in all of history could be the product of a Woman’s Seed, and that person in Jesus. Hence, God is prophecying the triumph of Jesus as he strikes at Satan’s head when He triumphs on the Cross (which is Satan striking at His heel).

That would make the Woman in Genesis 3:15 Mary.

Another key phrase is “I will put enmity between you and the Woman.” If Mary had sinned, she would be a slave to sin, and hence a slave to Satan. But “enmity” means enemies, lifelong enemies in Hebrew literature. You can’t be an enemy of someone’s if you are their slave, but slavery to sin would mean that Satan was victorious over Mary.

This is one of the prophecies that the Church used to develope Mary’s Immaculate Conception and her sinless states.

 

[NotWorthy]

Abira, in regards to Mary’s pronouncement, “I rejoice in God my Savior”.

Let’s say two women are being mugged at the same time.

The first woman screams and puts up a fight. The thief pulls out his gun, shoots her and runs away. She’s taken to the hospital where a surgeon skillfully removes the bullet that was lodged in her lung. The woman came within moments of dying from the wound.

The second woman screams and puts up a fight. A good Samaritan, passing by, runs up to help her and makes enough noise that he scares the robber away.

Both women can logically call these people their saviours (In example 1, the surgeon. In example 2, the good Samaritan), right? Both Mary and us can call Jesus our Savior, too!!! We can call Him our Savior because he saved us from death, from our state of sin, just like the surgeon. But Mary can call Him her Savior because he prevented her from sinning, just like the Samaritan!!! We are both making just as valid a declaration.

 

[auhsoj88]

Abira, in regards to Mary’s pronouncement, “I rejoice in God my Savior”.

Let’s say two women are being mugged at the same time.

The first woman screams and puts up a fight. The thief pulls out his gun, shoots her and runs away. She’s taken to the hospital where a surgeon skillfully removes the bullet that was lodged in her lung. The woman came within moments of dying from the wound.

The second woman screams and puts up a fight. A good Samaritan, passing by, runs up to help her and makes enough noise that he scares the robber away.

Both women can logically call these people their saviours (In example 1, the surgeon. In example 2, the good Samaritan), right? Both Mary and us can call Jesus our Savior, too!!! We can call Him our Savior because he saved us from death, from our state of sin, just like the surgeon. But Mary can call Him her Savior because he prevented her from sinning, just like the Samaritan!!! We are both making just as valid a declaration.

Very good point! The opposite is also true. If it was possible for a person to live their entire life without sin but denounce Jesus as his saviour that persons sinlessnes would be in vain and thus their salvation lost.

God protected Mary from sinning, thus She recognizes He as her saviour.

In Christ!

 

[Prayer_Warrior]

Nothing unholy can be united with God. Basically, the entire bible is telling us this. This is the reason we needed a Savior. Now, Mary was united with God’s Holy Spirit in a way that is so Holy that words can’t really describe it. A person could go a lifetime studying and reflecting on the Incarnation and never really understand it. In light of this, my question is, How could Mary not be sinless?

Someone brought up Mary’s role as the Ark of the (New) Covenent. The parallels are amazing. At God’s order, the ark was made with the purest gold. The ark was to carry God’s Word (the tablets), the manna (bread from Heaven) from the desert, and the rod of Aaron. Mary was to carry God’s Word, the Bread of Heaven, and the Ruler with the iron rod. Why would God want someone tainted (sinful) to carry His word in her womb when He didn’t want something tainted for the ark? It doesn’t make sense to me. It is fitting that God preserved Mary from original sin, not that He had to do it, but because it was appropriate for Him to do it. By the way, another analogy I often hear is that we all fall into a puddle (of sin) and Jesus is the one who helps us out and cleans us off before the banquet. With Mary, He simply helped her over the puddle–she never fell in–but it was due to His help. Therefore, He is still her Savior.

Not everything in the bible is spelled out in an absolutely clear way. That is why there are disputes about a lot of things, including the Trinity. That is also why Jesus left a Church behind to teach us.

 

[NotWorthy]

Someone brought up Mary’s role as the Ark of the (New) Covenent. The parallels are amazing. At God’s order, the ark was made with the purest gold. The ark was to carry God’s Word (the tablets), the manna (bread from Heaven) from the desert, and the rod of Aaron. Mary was to carry God’s Word, the Bread of Heaven, and the Ruler with the iron rod.

Luke also understood Mary is the new Ark of the Covenant, as revealed in his account of the Visitation (cf. Lk. 1:39-56). Let’s see how he compares Mary’s visitation to Elizabeth with the ark’s bearing the presence of God to Jerusalem in 2 Samuel Ch. 6:
2 Samuel 6

• David arose and went back to Judah. (v2)
• David says, “How can the Ark of the Lord come to me?” (v9)
• The ark resided there for three months. (v11)
• The people rejoice ….“amid the festivities”. (v12)
• They brought the ark “amid shouts of joy”. (v15)
• David leaps and dances before the ark (v16)
  Luke 1
• Mary arose and went to the hill country of Judah.(v39)
• Elizabeth says, “Who am I that the mother of my Lord should come to me?” (v43)
• Mary stays three months with Elizabeth.(v56)
• Mary rejoices “in God my Savior”. (v47)
• Elizabeth cries out in a loud voice “Blessed are you among women” (v42).
• The babe leaps in Elizabeth’s womb at Mary’s greeting (v41)
  To drive the point home even more, Luke makes an interesting word choice in Luke 1:42: he tells us that Elizabeth “cried out in a loud voice” when she expressed her joy at Mary’s arrival.
  The word translated "cried out" (*anaphenatzen* in Greek) occurs nowhere else in the New Testament. But it does occur five times in the Greek translation of the Old Testament, and* every time* it shows up in passages having to do with the Ark of the Covenant, describing the joyful noise God's people made in celebration of His presence among them.

 

[mark_a]

Luke also understood Mary is the new Ark of the Covenant, as revealed in his account of the Visitation (cf. Lk. 1:39-56). Let’s see how he compares Mary’s visitation to Elizabeth with the ark’s bearing the presence of God to Jerusalem in 2 Samuel Ch. 6:

2 Samuel 6

• David arose and went back to Judah. (v2)
• David says, “How can the Ark of the Lord come to me?” (v9)
• The ark resided there for three months. (v11)
• The people rejoice ….“amid the festivities”. (v12)
• They brought the ark “amid shouts of joy”. (v15)
• David leaps and dances before the ark (v16)

Luke 1

• Mary arose and went to the hill country of Judah.(v39)
• Elizabeth says, “Who am I that the mother of my Lord should come to me?” (v43)
• Mary stays three months with Elizabeth.(v56)
• Mary rejoices “in God my Savior”. (v47)
• Elizabeth cries out in a loud voice “Blessed are you among women” (v42).
• The babe leaps in Elizabeth’s womb at Mary’s greeting (v41)
  To drive the point home even more, Luke makes an interesting word choice in Luke 1:42: he tells us that Elizabeth “cried out in a loud voice” when she expressed her joy at Mary’s arrival.

The word translated “cried out” (anaphenatzen in Greek) occurs nowhere else in the New Testament. But it does occur five times in the Greek translation of the Old Testament, and* every time* it shows up in passages having to do with the Ark of the Covenant, describing the joyful noise God’s people made in celebration of His presence among them.

So do you think Luke plagerized 2 Samuel, or maybe he just internalised it because he loved it so much?

 

[MyPhilomena]

Mary is a decendent of Adam (Luke 3) and so she is with sin like everyone who went before her after the original sin,

(1:ki, 8:46) If they sin against thee (for there is no man that sinneth not)…

(Gal, 3:22) For the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

Also Mary herself recognsed her need to be saved.

(Luke 1:47) And my spirit hath rejoiced in my God my Saviour.

I don’t understand how Mary can be without sin because she is just a person like everyone else.

See this:
catholic.com/library/mary_saints.asp

 

[McKevin]

This article addresses your questions:

catholic.com/library/Immaculate_Conception_and_Assum.asp

Welcome to the forum!

Amen! Welcome to the forum! My biggest struggle during conversion was with Mary…as it is with most protestants, but the only church in my neighborhood teaching RCIA year round was the church named Immaculate Heart of Mary, so of course I had to come to terms with Mary…all I can say is thank God for His providence!!!:clapping:

May God bless you and help you to be open to things that you’re not used to!

 

[kleary]

where does it say that Mary was without sin in the Bible, and why then would she need to be saved if she was perfect already in the eyes of God?

Where in Holy Scripture does it say that all truths that God has revealed to man is contained in Holy Scripture?

If you can find me a verse that says such a thing, or a verse you believe to mean that, open your Bible to the table of contents and read to me all the books the New Testament.

After you read the names of those books you can then say you spoke the “Word of God” and that part of the Word of God is NOT SCRIPTURE.

The second part of your quote above does not make sense to us Catholics because the Immaculate Conception Dogma says that Mary was indeed in need of a Savior, and was in fact saved by Jesus…just BEFORE she was conceived…therefore her soul not obtaining the original sin.

Ken

 

[HailMary]

I would like to attract your attention to the
starting point of the Annunciation:

“And he came to her and said, “Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with you!” but she was greatly troubled at that saying and considered in her mind what sort of greeting this might be” (St. Luke 1:28-29)

So much could be said about these two verses that an entire book would not be sufficient to say it all!

1. Consider first the angelic salutation. Often times, we gloss over the messenger as though he is a federal express clerk at the door (‘good evening mam, I’ve got a message for you: hail full of grace, the Lord is with you’, now could you please sign here…’ it is as though St. Gabriel’s persona is of no import.

Yet, who is St. Gabriel? He is one of the seven archangels who stand before the very face of God (book of revelation). By this we mean that St. Gabriel enjoys the beatific vision. He sees the Trinity. Needless to say that nothing human could impress this angel – he has seen the face of God. To understand the extent of his power and majesty it is enough to turn to the book of Daniel 8:15-17 “When I, Daniel had seen the vision, I sought to understand it and behold, there stood before me one having the appearance of a man. And I heard a man’s voice between the
banks of the Ulai, and it called “Gabriel, make this man understand the vision.” So he came near where I stood; and when he came, I was frightened and fell upon my face.”

So the great prophet Daniel, the one who God favored with visions, prophecies and who was miraculously saved from the fire, the one who was so high above his brothers in faith, Daniel fell upon his face frightened!

If anyone says that Mary was just an ordinary women, ask this person if they consider Daniel to be just an ordinary guy! If therefore Daniel fell upon his face, how much more we would fall upon our faces if such a heavenly visitor would grace us by his visit.

Gabriel was sent to Zechariah in the temple (Luke 1:11-12) we read that Zechariah was troubled when he saw him (like our Lady) but then the evangelist adds “and fear fell upon him”.

This fear is a Holy fear before the Almighty. It is a fear born out of
sinfulness in the presence of the all pure. “Depart from me O Lord for I
am a sinful man” exclaimed Peter after the first miraculous catch. He
said so because he recognized in Jesus God and he knew that no one shall
see the face of God and live (as the Lord told Moses).

How does Mary react in the presence of the archangel? “She was greatly
troubled at that saying”. Mary (and this is crucial) is not afraid by
the presence of the angel! She is only troubled by the salutation which
is the normal reaction of anyone who is truly humble. Scout the bible
from beginning to end and you will not find any other human being
saluted in this way by an angel.

By the way, some protestant argues that the correct translation is
‘highly favored one’ rather than ‘full of grace’. Without delving into
the Greek one can say that ‘full of grace’ captures more accurately the sense of the salutation than ‘highly favored one’.

At any rate, Mary’s purity is such that the presence of an angel does not fill her with fear. If this is not the signature of the
Immaculate conception, I do not know what is!

continued…

 

[HailMary]

Next consider that salutation. Mary is ‘full of grace’. As St. Jerome’s and other fathers of the Church point out, by this the angel is acknowledging that Mary has all the graces and that she has them to the fullest. Now, since grace is the opposite of sin, how could one who has committed even the slightest sin be called full of grace? Therefore, Mary has never committed a sin! This is all the more clear by the fact that the Angel substitutes this title ‘full of grace’ to her name for whereas he should have said ‘hail Mary’, he says ‘full of grace’ which is her true name. Rightly so do we say ‘hail Mary’ in the rosary because ‘Mary’ and ‘Full of Grace’ are synonyms. She alone holds this title amongst the people of God.

Hence, Mary is full of Grace. Now if you go to Genesis 3:15, we read that the Lord (understood as the Father) tells the serpent “I shall put enmity between you and the woman, and between your seed and her seed; he shall bruise your head and you shall bruise his heel”. Here I am quoting from the RSV Catholic Edition. Other translations read “She shall crush your head you will bruise her heel”. The distinction between he (Jesus) and she (Mary) is of no consequence whatsoever due to the enmity between
the woman the serpent (the devil). This is the only enmity that God establishes down the ages. This enmity is total, complete and fierce. Where the woman is, there can be no serpent, and where the serpent is, the woman is not.

If therefore, the serpent, the devil who is lie and the father of lie,
who brought sin into the world, if he is in complete total and full
opposition with the woman, it must be that the woman has never had any dealing with him. If she did this enmity would not be completely established. Hence, one has to logically conclude that Mary was never under sin.

Since this prophetic message was given at the dawn of time, thousands and thousands of years before Mary was born, we conclude that Mary was in God’s mind from the beginning, and as so, when he created her, he fulfilled the prophecy he established in time by creating her spotless. Mary is therefore immaculately conceived.

Without making this message unduly long, I would like to attract your attentions to one salient point that is often overlooked: “and she considered in her mind what this salutation might be”.

Mary is smart. In fact, and this may come as a surprise to many, Mary is most intelligent human being that God created. She is more intelligent than Paul, John, Augustin, Thomas Aquinas all put together. There is more: Mary is more intelligent than Newton, Einstein, and all men of science put together.

Why? Because Mary being full of grace and highly favored has had her preternatural intelligence intact. Sin weakens the will and the faculties. Not so with Mary. Furthermore due her Divine Maternity, she was endowed with all necessary graces as to be a fitting mother to the Son of God.

And it is with her mind not her heart, not her feelings or visions or other extraordinary means that Mary sets about to understand. Her reaction is stunning. Whereas I may be on the floor overcome with fear or jumping around the room with joy because an angel has visited me, she does not move, does not utter a sound but in complete control of her faculties considers in her mind what king of salutation this might be". In my daily affairs, how often do I remain recollected when considering
a matter? How often do I think about it alone in the presence of the Holy Spirit rather than “sharing it immediately with others?” Mary’s self control is an indication of her own spiritual life.

I hope you will find these notes helpful in understanding who Mary is in the eyes of God and sharing it with those who have difficulties understanding our devotion to her.

note: these are quoted from a friend of mine