How can one be a protestant?

[Contarini]

Would they really know any different if you had a beer or glass of wine at home?

No, and probably some do–but for me it’s a matter of honor. As I see it, one should keep the rules of the community with which one affiliates oneself. After all, monastic communities have all sorts of rules and regulations–evangelical Protestant communities are no different that way. I think I have a much better witness for Christian liberty by keeping the rules but making it clear that I don’t think they are intrinsically necessary, rather than breaking them.

In Christ,

Edwin

 

[lak611]

No, and probably some do–but for me it’s a matter of honor. As I see it, one should keep the rules of the community with which one affiliates oneself. After all, monastic communities have all sorts of rules and regulations–evangelical Protestant communities are no different that way. I think I have a much better witness for Christian liberty by keeping the rules but making it clear that I don’t think they are intrinsically necessary, rather than breaking them.

In Christ,

Edwin

I admire your integrity in this matter.

 

[LutheranDK]

I am confused and need direction.

I love my faith as a Catholic. One of the main reasons is knowing that the Church was started by Christ himself and the Church has believed the same things for thousands of years. I cannot fathom a protestant viewpoint. Where one can pick up the bible and interpret it anyway he wants. You have to know that doing so is wrong. If I took 10 protestants and asked each about their beliefs about the bible I am sure I would receive at least 6-7 different interpretations. As a protestant doesn’t this bother you? How do you know who is correct? There is no one to help you. As the belief is, you have to interpret it yourself.

Do protestants actually belong to a faith community? I can never figure that one out. A protestant church pops up on every corner with different teaching every day it seems. There is NO community in my view. If a protestant travels what do they do on Sunday? If they go to services at another church it may be an entirely different bible viewpoint. Then What?

With no one at the top, it is anarchy. And I know you will say, that Jesus is at the top, but if that is so and he is truly guiding you, why all the different interpretations? The Holy Sprit is telling one church this and one church that?

I must say that it pains me greatly to see Christ’s Church (note: NOT defined as “the Catholic church”, or “the Lutheran church”, but ALL believers in Christ the Lord) divided, and I would love nothing more than to see the Church united once again, as it was in the beginning.

But there are mainly two reasons why I don’t believe this is possible, or even desirable, untill we all are one again in the Kingdom of God:

1: The differences of interpretations of Scripture, and thereby, the different doctrines, are too many and varied to unite into one.
This is the principal reason, the mother of all reasons, so to speak

2: Men (and women ) are sinners. Also Christians. And sin separates. This means that the even the smallest disagreement can turn into a schism, because no side will give in, or even just let the matter rest.
This can be good, yes IS good when the matter is essential (the best example of this is the Lutheran reformation IMHO), but this is most often NOT the case.

I also do not like the fact that the protestant churches are not united in the Lutheran church from which they all came, but I must say I prefer the present situation to one where I, in the name of unity, would be forced to recognize doctrines in which I do not believe, counting amongst others:

*The infallability of the pope
*The institution of the papacy itself
*The so-called “immaculate conception”, which, if I understand it correctly, means that Mary was without sin
*The notion of purgatory, and the idea that money can buy you or another out of it
et cetera et cetera et cetera…

To answer the question of whether or not Protestants belong to a “faith community”, the answer is a resounding “YES!”

We belong to the community of the saints (in the sense this word is used in NT), which is to say ALL those who believe in Christ the Lord.

On a final note, I would also like to stress that not everything which is CALLED Christianity indeed IS Christianity.
The most well-known example is JW, who deny Christ, and the racist “church” “The royal disciples of the white Messiah”, who, to my knowledge, claim that all white people will be saved, and all others will be damned. Just a thought: What do these nutjobs think of mulattos, for instance?

 

[The_Truthinator]

If I took 10 protestants and asked each about their beliefs about the bible I am sure I would receive at least 6-7 different interpretations

Correction: You would receive 15, no less.

doesn’t this bother you?

It annoys me at times when one takes a passage totally out of context, but generally, no.

Do protestants actually belong to a faith community? I can never figure that one out. A protestant church pops up on every corner with different teaching every day it seems. There is NO community in my view.

Of course we are a community! We are bonded by the blood of Christ, by his redemptive work … We are bound not in the sense of uniformity found in an organization, but in a manner like that found in a family, a family of oddballs, better yet.

If a protestant travels what do they do on Sunday? If they go to services at another church it may be an entirely different bible viewpoint. Then What?

Then we listen to alternative interpretations, take them to heart, and search the Scriptures to see if they yield the same conclusion that said church/denomination has come to, and in this way, sharpen each other.

With no one at the top, it is anarchy.

Christ is the Head of the Church (Col. 2). He is our Dad, after all, our one and only Monarchy.

And I know you will say, that Jesus is at the top,

Yes.

but if that is so and he is truly guiding you, why all the different interpretations?

Because he may provide ALL the churches with a single answer, and yet each human being understand the answer a little differently. It is not a matter of being in PERFECT agreement on every minor issue, for there even the Catholic Church fails. Rather, it is about contemplation and meditation upon the Word of God and about sharpening each other as believers. I find few joys comparable to sitting down with my discipleship leader and discussing a confusing Scriptural issue, presenting our cases, and examining the Word to see what it really says on a matter. In those cases, we often find ourselves very much in harmony on said topic. Most denominational splits aren’t even about salvific issues, but rather, tradition. I think the Catholic Church overemphasizes the concept of a single, simple answer and de-emphasizes the possibility that perhaps the question is just as meaningful, just as important, as whatever answer is given, as whatever interpretation of that answer is given.

The Holy Sprit is telling one church this and one church that?

No, as I have said above. Many might pass along man-made theories and doctrines, but the majority, I think, truly look to the Scriptures to draw their conclusions, just as they should.

Martin Luther said in his famous 1522 Christmas sermon:

O that God should desire that my interpretation and that of all teachers should disappear, and each Christian should come straight to the Scripture alone and to the pure word of God! You see from this babbling of mine the immeasurable difference between the word of God and all human words, and how no man can adequately reach and explain a single word of God with all his words. It is an eternal word and must be understood and contemplated with a quiet mind. No one else can understand except a mind that contemplates in silence… Go to the Bible itself, dear Christians, and let my expositions and those of all scholars be no more than a tool with which to build aright, so that we can understand, taste, and abide in the simple and pure word of God.

I think the Scriptures reveal who God is and do this quite simply. Granted they are but a whisper of the full reality, but they are still overly-sufficient. And if we know who God is (Love, Judge, Father, Discipliner, Comforter, Guide, Helper, Friend, Maker, Sustainer, Artist, etc.) we can begin to understand his Word better because we know the Author better. So my advice for good interpretation is this: Read Scripture and discover God. Discover God and understand his Word.

 

[Allweather]

I also do not like the fact that the protestant churches are not united in the Lutheran church from which they all came, but I must say I prefer the present situation to one where I, in the name of unity, would be forced to recognize doctrines in which I do not believe, counting amongst others:

*The infallability of the pope
*The institution of the papacy itself
*The so-called “immaculate conception”, which, if I understand it correctly, means that Mary was without sin
*The notion of purgatory, and the idea that money can buy you or another out of it
et cetera et cetera et cetera…

It is at least possible that you’re misunderstanding many aspects of these items you list. Many people come to the Catholic Church after serious investigation and reflection upon these things, and others. Personally, I didn’t. For me, it was a realization that my own opinions matter very little against those of the great minds of Catholic history. So I decided to submit to that authority, and in time, after serious investigation and reflection, realized that everything the Catholic Church teaches with regard to these things is absolutely true and wise.

On a final note, I would also like to stress that not everything which is CALLED Christianity indeed IS Christianity.
The most well-known example is JW, who deny Christ, and the racist “church” “The royal disciples of the white Messiah”, who, to my knowledge, claim that all white people will be saved, and all others will be damned. Just a thought: What do these nutjobs think of mulattos, for instance?

I think it is a good thing for Protestants to consider the fact of the cults. I think a very good case can be made that Protestantism itself is what made these cults possible. There is no question whatever that they all were born out of Protestantism. This morning I read the account that Joseph Smith, Jr. gave in which he says that he was bothered by all the competing churches (all Protestant, BTW). Rather than join the correct one, he decided to establish a new one, the Mormons. There is rebellion at the heart of Protestantism, but more deeply there is a spirit of intellectual arrogance that leads people to believe that they must “understand” things in order to accept them. You suggest the same in saying that you could not come to recognize doctrines like papal infallibility or immaculate conception. Yet, given enough time, study, and reflection, I’ll bet you would recognize them enthusiastically. The reason is that they are founded upon solid ground, and have withstood the tests of the centuries, some 15 of them before Luther was born.

 

[Sixtus]

Just as say SDA and JW’s are in protest against Rome, so too fanatical elements within Islam [and others] against Christianity as a whole.

Guess anyone can.

Does not have to be religion either. I am pro-testant against that sector of society which views those marginalised by society by calling them criminal just because they are poor

 

[stephanut]

When I was a Baptist, we never attended church when traveling. The Protestants (as a rule) don’t have such rules as “mandatory Church attendance” - since they “are not under law, but under grace.” Miss church?? No big deal…

The 10 commandments were more like suggestions or guidelines. We didn’t regard them as “commandments” anymore, since we are under the “New Covenant.” The law is only there to make us “aware of sin.” And about the story when Jesus told the rich young ruler to “obey the commandments” - um… ahh… well, I guess He was just joking around. See? Jesus had a sense of humor! What a knee slapper!

Protestants don’t have rules about obligations, but does that mean that they are a bunch of lousy Christians? If you’re led by the Holy Spirit, you will know what to do about church attendance. And with regard to the rules, that makes “holiday” Catholics non-Catholics no? Shouldn’t they be excommunicated since they aren’t bothering about the rules?!

Jesus told the young men to obey the commandments because he was boasting about how he had “kept” all of them. Jesus used it to show him that under the law, he could never be saved, never deserved any of God’s mercy, since we can never hope to keep all the commandments perfectly for the whole of our lives.

If there’s one thing that irritates me is the “holier than thou” attitude some Catholics take. Forgive me for being so blunt, but just because the Catholic church institutes all these compulsory prayers and rituals and Masses doesn’t make it the holiest and most Holy-Spirit filled church. I have great respect for my Catholic friends and the priests and nuns and the Pope since I grew up in Catholic schools, and am in the process of learning more about Catholicism (boyfriend’s Catholic) and it hurts to see Catholics brush aside Protestant “beliefs” this way.

 

[Allweather]

Protestants don’t have rules about obligations, but does that mean that they are a bunch of lousy Christians? If you’re led by the Holy Spirit, you will know what to do about church attendance. And with regard to the rules, that makes “holiday” Catholics non-Catholics no? Shouldn’t they be excommunicated since they aren’t bothering about the rules?!

No, Protestants are certainly NOT a “bunch of lousy Christians” and I’m not sure anyone is saying they are. Rules represent an absolute. No one can live up to them at all times. Yet, I think it is important to have the rules in place in order to make clear that God means business and is not to be mocked. He understands that we are weak, and will fail. That’s why we need forgiveness and mercy. I kind of agree with you that “if you’re led by the Holy Spirit, you will know what to do about church attendance” but humans are notoriously rationalizing creatures. If there’s a way around the rule, we’ll figure it out. So, we’ve got the rule there, and we’re able to see it as the absolute, and yes, there are times when we just can’t make it to church, but the reasons have to be valid and serious, not frivolous, or rationalized excuses. “It is right to give Him thanks and praise” and if it is right, then it is our obligation to do so.

As far as excommunication, I don’t think that’s the level of disobedience you’re talking about. Certainly anyone who is just going through the motions is probably wasting his/her time, and has serious problems, including being functionally excommunicated. But that is between them and God. We’ve got enough to worry about just getting OURSELVES to church and making sure we’re connecting to the worship of the Mass.

 

[Sixtus]

But that is between them and God. We’ve got enough to worry about just getting OURSELVES to church and making sure we’re connecting to the worship of the Mass.

 

[Kay_Cee]

Protestants don’t have rules about obligations, but does that mean that they are a bunch of lousy Christians? If you’re led by the Holy Spirit, you will know what to do about church attendance.

Assuming you’re led by the Holy Spirit, what exactly does he tell you about church attendance? And, assuming other Christians are led by the Holy Spirit, does he tell them the same thing about church attendance?

BTW, we are also led by the Holy Spirit, so why do you object to what we say He tells us about church attendance?

And with regard to the rules, that makes “holiday” Catholics non-Catholics no? Shouldn’t they be excommunicated since they aren’t bothering about the rules?!

I assume you mean Catholics who attend Mass only on Christmas and Easter. No, it doesn’t make them non-Catholics. It makes them lousy Catholics.

Jesus told the young men to obey the commandments because he was boasting about how he had “kept” all of them.

Okay, now I’m incredibly confused. I re-read this scripture (Matthew 19:16-22) According to the text, Jesus *first told the young man to obey the commandments. *Only after Jesus had said this, did the man say he had kept them. In order for your statement to be true, it would have to be the other way around.

Jesus used it to show him that under the law, he could never be saved, never deserved any of God’s mercy, since we can never hope to keep all the commandments perfectly for the whole of our lives.

Where does the passage say this? I read it several times but saw nothing about this at all.

If there’s one thing that irritates me is the “holier than thou” attitude some Catholics take. Forgive me for being so blunt, but just because the Catholic church institutes all these compulsory prayers and rituals and Masses doesn’t make it the holiest and most Holy-Spirit filled church.

Nobody is claiming it does, but having compulsory prayer like the Mass and compulsory rituals like Baptism sure helps.

I have great respect for my Catholic friends and the priests and nuns and the Pope since I grew up in Catholic schools, and am in the process of learning more about Catholicism (boyfriend’s Catholic) and it hurts to see Catholics brush aside Protestant “beliefs” this way.

I also have great respect for my Protestant friends. However, it similarily hurts to see Protestants brush aside Catholic beliefs as you did in your comment about “compulsory prayers and rituals and Masses.”

 

[ronnok20]

I am confused and need direction.

I love my faith as a Catholic. One of the main reasons is knowing that the Church was started by Christ himself and the Church has believed the same things for thousands of years. I cannot fathom a protestant viewpoint. Where one can pick up the bible and interpret it anyway he wants. You have to know that doing so is wrong. If I took 10 protestants and asked each about their beliefs about the bible I am sure I would receive at least 6-7 different interpretations. As a protestant doesn’t this bother you? How do you know who is correct? There is no one to help you. As the belief is, you have to interpret it yourself.

Do protestants actually belong to a faith community? I can never figure that one out. A protestant church pops up on every corner with different teaching every day it seems. There is NO community in my view. If a protestant travels what do they do on Sunday? If they go to services at another church it may be an entirely different bible viewpoint. Then What?

With no one at the top, it is anarchy. And I know you will say, that Jesus is at the top, but if that is so and he is truly guiding you, why all the different interpretations? The Holy Sprit is telling one church this and one church that?

I’m glad that you love your faith, but there are others that love their faiths too which happen to be Protestant. How could one be Protestant? Perhaps the same question could apply for a Protestant to ask, How could one be Catholic? You obviously believe that the RC was the church founded by Jesus. Others believe that this may have been true but the RC does not reflect this anymore and hasn’t for years. Many believe that this is why the Reformation took place including myself.

 

[hosemonkey]

“Like it or not, that’s the way it is. It was my biggest obstacle to becoming Catholic, and it’s still a stumbling block. I refuse to attend my parish picnic or any other Catholic “festival” in our city because alcohol is served. To me, it stinks like sour pee, and it makes me feel sick to my stomach to be around it.”

Lady, somebody has been giving you some BAD beer.

 

[jay29]

This is the greatest thing of all. When I was Protestant, I didn’t know anything about this. I was taught, and believed, that Jesus never founded a Church at all, and that all churches are just man’s feeble attempts to understand Christ.

One of the greatest lies ever told.

 

[jay29]

I’m glad that you love your faith, but there are others that love their faiths too which happen to be Protestant. How could one be Protestant? Perhaps the same question could apply for a Protestant to ask, How could one be Catholic? You obviously believe that the RC was the church founded by Jesus. Others believe that this may have been true but the RC does not reflect this anymore and hasn’t for years. Many believe that this is why the Reformation took place including myself.

See the cc was in its infancy when it was founded. Today, it is a FULLY grown adult.

 

[Allweather]

Lady, somebody has been giving you some BAD beer.

That reminds me… It’s martini time!

 

[hosemonkey]

That reminds me… It’s martini time!

I concur. Cheers!

 

[ronnok20]

The real issue here is that Catholics believe that their church is THE church and all others are in protest of the true faith and cannot be wholly the church of Christ. Protestants do not believe this. I and many other Protestants believe that the RC was at one time the true church in teaching of Christ but ran amuck many years ago and because of their huge ego and unwillingness to acknowledge the wrongs, the Reformation had to take place to be the vehicle for the Holy Spirit. I am not saying that God doesn’t exist in the RC today, I am simply saying that he is in many churches today because of what happened in the 16th century.

 

[Hellisreal]

Contarini said: Since you say you are happy as a Catholic, what are you confused about? Why does it bother you so much that other people think differently from you?

:clapping:

I gave up on that way of thinking. Its so much better to give it to God.

 

[jmcrae]

The real issue here is that Catholics believe that their church is THE church and all others are in protest of the true faith and cannot be wholly the church of Christ.

I suppose that Jesus must also have seemed “arrogant” to the many false Messiahs who were around in His day, by claiming to be God the Son, and by performing so many miracles, and gathering the crowds.

Protestants do not believe this. I and many other Protestants believe that the RC was at one time the true church in teaching of Christ

Does Christ change His teachings? If the teachings of the Church were the teachings of Christ back then, it follows logically that they still are, today.

but ran amuck many years ago and because of their huge ego and unwillingness to acknowledge the wrongs, the Reformation had to take place to be the vehicle for the Holy Spirit.

How is it a “vehicle of the Holy Spirit” to splinter into every different imaginable belief system that could even vaguely be considered Christian?

I am not saying that God doesn’t exist in the RC today, I am simply saying that he is in many churches today because of what happened in the 16th century.

If God is a God of truth, then He can only be in one of them - it doesn’t even matter which one you pick, as long as you can defend it, but there is no possible way for a God of truth to contradict Himself in matters of theology and of moral discipline, which means that there is no way for two denominations (or more) to both be God’s church, simultaneously, since any two you pick will differ in their theology and/or their moral discipline. Only one can be right; the rest of them have to be wrong.

 

[Sixtus]

Ronnock 20 posted:

because of what happened in the 16th century.

I could not agree more!!

That nasty old Church for not playing ball with the King, I mean not just any King but the King of England. He only wanted his lawful marriage annulled so he could marry someone else and that rotten old Pope would not annul it for him, just because he didn’t meet the criteria for annullment.

Who is the Pope not to do what the King of England said?

If Christ gave him the Keys and power to ‘bind or loose’, why didn’t he abuse his power and priviledge to meet the King’s needs!