How can people believe Peter is the rock but still not be Catholic?

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…When God imposes a name on someone, the name conveys a meaning that describes the person. For example, since Abraham was a “type” of God the Father, and the Father of the Jewish race, God changed his name from Abram, to Abraham. The name Abraham means “father of a multitude” (Strongs #85, Hebrew). In re-naming Abram “Abraham”, God designated him as the Father of the Jewish people. So likewise, when Our Lord renamed Simon Peter, which means rock, he designated him as the visible representative of Himself, the true rock, and gave Peter a participation in His own authority when he declared: “Thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build My Church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give unto you the keys to the kingdom of heaven” which properly belong to Me “and whatever you shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, whatever you shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven” (Mt 16:20).

So, now that non-Catholics know Peter means rock, not small pebble, and the idea that petros is referring to Peter’s confession holds no water whatsoever, how can they not be Catholic?🙂 🙂 🙂
 
…When God imposes a name on someone, the name conveys a meaning that describes the person. For example, since Abraham was a “type” of God the Father, and the Father of the Jewish race, God changed his name from Abram, to Abraham. The name Abraham means “father of a multitude” (Strongs #85, Hebrew). In re-naming Abram “Abraham”, God designated him as the Father of the Jewish people. So likewise, when Our Lord renamed Simon Peter, which means rock, he designated him as the visible representative of Himself, the true rock, and gave Peter a participation in His own authority when he declared: “Thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build My Church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give unto you the keys to the kingdom of heaven” which properly belong to Me “and whatever you shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, whatever you shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven” (Mt 16:20).

So, now that non-Catholics know Peter means rock, not small pebble, and the idea that petros is referring to Peter’s confession holds no water whatsoever, how can they not be Catholic?🙂 🙂 🙂

Because much more is involved than the exegesis of that one passage… 🙂


 

Because much more is involved than the exegesis of that one passage…​


Perhaps you are right! Like I said elsewhere, being catholic doesn’t hinge on Simon bar-jona being renamed kepha; the C.C. is the only church that can trace its lineage all the way back to the Apostolic Church, making them the same church, and based on passages such as Matthew 16:18 and Matthew 28:20, that church cannot fail! The word catholic, much to my surprise as a former Lutheran was employed often, starting 110 AD. 👍
 
… being catholic doesn’t hinge on Simon bar-jona being renamed kepha; the C.C. is the only church that can trace its lineage all the way back to the Apostolic Church, making them the same church, and based on passages such as …
The only church that can trace its lineage back to the apostolic church? What about the 15 autocephalous canonical Orthodox Churches, as well as the Coptic Church and the Armenian Church?
 
If you are justified before God, you are saved…period!
I agree. If you are justified before God you are saved.

But the question is how do you get justified? What is the nature of justification? What does it mean to be justified by His grace?

It is your understanding of justication that is in error and not that when we are saved, we are justified.

Example. We are all smelly, bruised with all bones broken wanting to get to heaven (point B) here on earth (point A). The way we are, we have no hope of getting to point B on our own.

The protestant view of justification is like this: We remain bruised and broken but Jesus makes this shining mechanized armour which he fits around us so that we can get to point B. Inside we are still bruised, broken and smelly but God will ignore that because we got there through Jesus’s mechanized shining armour.

The Catholic view on the other hand is:
Christ was this wonderful physician who came bandaging our wounds and working miracles with our broken bones. He then proceeds to wash us clean. At the end of all that we are able to stand on our own even better than before so that now we can walk beside Him to point B.
 
The only church that can trace its lineage back to the apostolic church? What about the 15 autocephalous canonical Orthodox Churches, as well as the Coptic Church and the Armenian Church?
Just to clarify a couple of things.
First - In discussions between Catholics and Protestants, the basic point of departure is their split from the Catholic Church of the Latin Rite in Rome. Commonly refered to as the Roman Catholic Church. Therefore in this sense it is the Church in Rome, the Root Church of the Protestant Reformation, that is the one that is tracable to the Apostles and none other (Protestant)

Second - Pope John Paul II ibelieve is the one who refered to the Western and Eastern Churches as the right and left lungs of the One Holy and Apostolic Church. Therefore, I believe all of the Churches you mention above would be considered as part of the Catholic Church.

I know that in discussions here we often neglect to clarify this point regarding the East and Western Churches. Certainly both branches of the Catholic Church, the Western Church in commuunion with Rome and the Eastern Orthodox Churches can claim valid apostolic succession. The Protestant Churches cannot.

Peace
James
 
**
The only church that can trace its lineage back to the apostolic church? What about the 15 autocephalous canonical Orthodox Churches, as well as the Coptic Church and the Armenian Church?
**

Hey John…

I pray for the reunification of the C.C. and the E.O.C.'S everyday…👍

"As you sent me into the world, so I sent them into the world. And I consecrate myself for them, so that they also may be consecrated in truth. “I pray not only for them, but also for those who will believe in me through their word, so that they may all be one, as you, Father, are in me and I in you, that they also may be in us, that the world may believe that you sent me. And I have given them the glory you gave me, so that they may be one, as we are one, I in them and you in me, that they may be brought to perfection as one, that the world may know that you sent me, and that you loved them even as you loved me.”

Article of hope --Vatican joins historic talks to end 950-year rift with Orthodox church…

timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article2880038.ece

There are fourteen Orthodox churches that are generally accepted as “autocephalous,” which in Greek means “self-headed.” An autocephalous church possesses the right to resolve all internal problems on its own authority and the ability to choose its own bishops, including the Patriarch, Archbishop or Metropolitan who heads the church. While each autocephalous church acts independently, they all remain in full sacramental and canonical communion with one another. Today these autocephalous Orthodox churches include the four ancient Eastern Patriarchates (Constantinople, Alexandria, Antioch, and Jerusalem), and ten other Orthodox churches that have emerged over the centuries in Russia, Serbia, Romania, Bulgaria, Georgia, Cyprus, Greece, Poland, Albania, and the Czech and Slovak Republics. On its own initiative, the Patriarchate of Moscow has granted autocephalous status to most of its parishes in North America under the name of the Orthodox Church in America. But since the Patriarchate of Constantinople claims the exclusive right to grant autocephalous status, it and most other Orthodox churches do not recognize the autocephaly of the American church. Nine of these autocephalous churches are Patriarchates: Constantinople, Alexandria, Antioch, Jerusalem, Russia, Serbia, Romania, Bulgaria and Georgia. The others are headed by an Archbishop or Metropolitan. At the level of church government, Orthodoxy is a communion of churches, all of which recognize the Patriarch of Constantinople as primus inter pares, or “first among equals.” Although he does not have authority to intervene in the affairs of local churches outside his own Patriarchate, he is considered first in honor and the symbolic center of all the Orthodox churches. Thus the Patriarchate of Constantinople (also known as the Ecumenical Patriarchate) enjoys a certain priority among the various Orthodox churches. (CNEWA)

The Roman Catholics and Orthodox both claim their church has the authority to determine doctrine and that the Protestants are divided into so many many factions, one can get lost in the labyrinth of confusion. Of course, the Orthodox claim they, not the Roman Catholic church are the one true apostolic church and depict the Roman Catholics “falling away” in 1054 AD. Roman Catholics use the same historical chart but have the Orthodox “falling away” from them.

The 21 Ecumenical Councils of the Catholic Church

These councils convened by the C.C. stemming from the first council in Jerusalem, headed by St. Peter and company (For the next 200+ years everything was done in hiding due to the perscutions of the R.E. --until Constantine legalized Universal Christianity)–and extending through each century until the last one convened in 1961-65, headed by Pope John the 23rd --seem to reveal the continuity that is lacking in the autocephalous/autonomous E.O.C.'S. IMHO of course --They seem fix the problem of who fell away! Every several hundred years, cardinals, bishops, priests, theologians and other Catholic leaders, get together under the leadership of the Pope to discuss doctrine and the future of the Church. These are called ecumenical councils. There have been 21 councils since 325 A.D. Prior to that, serious persecution prevented widespread meetings. There were however, less organized councils.

In the Bible we have an example of a Church council. (Acts 15-16) Paul and Barnabus went to Jerusalem to settle the circumcision issue. “As they (Paul and Timothy) went through the towns they delivered to the believers the rules decided upon by the apostles and elders in Jerusalem, and they told them to obey those rules.” (Acts 16:3) This is a good example of the Lord using the “Church” to decide on matters of interpretation.

The councils are the glue of the C.C. that keep her One and are extremely important because it is where the Church settles many issues about what God is saying in Scripture and what he is saying to his Church. They are also where the Church officially responds to doctrinal threats. Sometimes I hear non-Catholics say something like “Catholics made up the a particular doctrine at such and such a council” when, in truth, the Church was simply officially defining something that it had always believed as a response to a challenge from those opposed to the Catholic doctrine.

The C.C. and the E.O.C.'S ARE USUALLY IN AGREEMENT WITH MOST DOCTRINES…
 
…Catholics believe the Holy Spirit is seriously present, guiding the proceedings at these councils. Jesus said to Peter, “…you are Peter and upon this rock I will build my Church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.” Catholics believe that was Jesus’ promise that he would protect the Church from doctrinal error. This doctrinal protection is called “infallibility”. It does not mean that Catholics leaders throughout history would not be “indefectible” on issues other than doctrine.

These councils are called ecumenical because there are several rites in the Catholic Church including the Eastern Rite, (Byzantine, Antiochene, Armenian, Chaldean etc). All of these rights recognize the Pope in Rome as their leader. The largest rite is the Latin-Rite (that’s the one most people know). Usually the Pope comes from that rite. However, several times in history, the Pope has come from other rites.

NON-Catholics occasionally criticize these councils and have a problem with the idea that the Church could get together to decide what God is saying to the Catholic Church as a whole. However, every non-Catholic has had their own types of councils and conferences to assert what they collectively believe God is saying in various passages of Scripture. e.g. the Canadian Pentecostal Assembly in Ottawa last year, where many of these kinds of issues were discussed. They believe the Holy Spirit is present guiding them as they meet to decide their interrelationships and communications etc.

The International Lutheran Council is a worldwide association of confessional Lutheran denominations. It is to be distinguished from the Lutheran World Federation, which represents the larger, more theologically inclusive Lutheran churches. The organization was constituted in 1993 at a council held in Antigua, Guatemala, although it traces its roots back to theological conferences held in many locations in the 1950s and 1960s.

Member bodies of the ILC hold “an unconditional commitment to the Holy Scriptures as the inspired and infallible Word of God and to the Lutheran Confessions contained in the Book of Concord as the true and faithful exposition of the Word of God.”

As one can witness in the world today, sadly, protestantism is the only real threat to Christian unity. The C.C. AND the E.O.C.'S STILL HAVE A CHANCE.👍 👍 👍

Check out this amazing site --UNDENIABLE proof that Jesus AND His Blessed Mother want THE C.C. AND THE E.O.C.'S TO UNITE! Approved by both the C.C. and the E.O.C —These miracles in Damascus have even converted staunch protestants and atheists/agnostics…👍

catholicdigitalstudio.com/miracleofdamascus.htm
 

You’ve been reading Chesterton 🙂 IMHO, what you’ve said is an almost perfect answer to the question in the title. 😉

I love Chesterton! I am ashamed to say I never even heard of him until I started listening to Immaculate Heart Radio, but at once fell in love with his writing,and his humor. Such a keen mind!
 
As one can witness in the world today, sadly, protestantism is the only real threat to Christian unity. The C.C. AND the E.O.C.'S STILL HAVE A CHANCE.👍 👍 👍
Layman cannot cause a schism, bishops can. Protestants try to follow the Bible instead of the Church because the Bible cannot excommunicate them (or worse!) If there is true Christian unity among the bishops of the Church based on the will to follow the Gospel of Christ the angles will lead outsiders who are believers to unity with the Holy Church.
 
He John…
I said, *“as one can witness in the world today, sadly, protestantism is the only real threat to Christian unity,” *and I meant it. The members aren’t the threat; the man-made doctrine of sola scriptura, employing laymen - -private interpretation --is the threat to the unity of Christianity!

The C.C. AND the E.O.C.'S STILL HAVE A CHANCE, because neither employ the man-made doctrine of sola scriptura (the bible being the only authority) and both possess oversight, both adhere to the same doctrines, for the most part. Authority is what divides them.

I am not condemning protestantism, far from it, I am simply saying division runs amok in the protestant world. You can’t possibly disagree with that. Just in case you due, lets examine the facts, shall we.

**Layman cannot cause a schism…
**
They can’t? Really? The doctrine of sola scriptura, is it not, the sole authority of protestantism? All these protestants the world over, employing private interpretation, all being guided by the Holy Spirit, personally to get that interpretation right.

You say, I can’t go wrong, the Holy Spirit is on my side, yet there are thousands of churches/denominations, evangelical, non-denominational, bible alone advocates shunning all churches, who are all employing that same man-made doctrine of sola scriptura. If the spirit of truth can only teach one truth regarding any one teaching in the bible, then all these different laymen, again employing private interpretation, when it comes to their only authority, the bible, should ALL share the same truth regarding any one teaching, shouldn’t it? If there was one Protestant church endowed with authority, like there is in the one Catholic church --teaching the same thing when it came to the varied truths of the bible, again like the catholic church does, then I would concede that laymen can’t cause schisms. Unfortunately that simply isn’t the case. Again division runs amok; thousands of protestant/evangelical churches all teaching competing truths on some level; that is the very reason, why there are so many protestant churches with very unique names, to differentiate one from the other.

Does the Holy Spirit, GOD, teach a multiplicity of truths regarding any one doctrine in the protestant bible, to each unique protestant church or does the Spirit of Truth, JESUS CHRIST, teach One Truth vis-a-vis any one teaching in the catholic bible to His One established Church, the House of the Living God, the Pillar and Foundation of One Truth -with Jesus as the Savior of His One Body, the Catholic Church?

I am not trying to castigate anyone in the protestant world, (I have family members in the protestant world) --only the man-made protestant doctrine of sola scriptura! 👍

bishops can…

So true and they have, but they never changed the deposit of faith; the catholic church is still One, united avoiding division, dissension! Lets not forget about the anti-Christ! What/who do you think is his primary target? His only function in life is to dismantle Christ’s Mystical Body, Christ’s Church --His Fathers House (the House of the living God) and the Holy Spirit, the spirit of truth --the pillar and foundation of TRUTH. Jesus is His Church; He is the Head and Savior of it, and the anti-Christ is constantly on the prowl to corrupt the members of His Church. Humans can and will fail, but Christ cannot, and He said nothing will destroy His Church; why don’t you believe Him?

“…And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.” Rev. 12:17

Jesus’ said His Church was to be one in perpetuity:

John 10:16; – there shall be one fold and one shepherd Eph 4:3-6; – one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father Rom 16:17; – avoid those who create dissensions 1 Cor 1:10; – I urge that there be no divisions among you Phil 2:2; – be of same mind, united in heart, thinking one thing Rom 15:5; – God grant you to think in harmony with one another Jn 17:17-23; – I pray that they may be one, as we are one Jn 17: 23; – that they may be brought to perfection as one 1 Cor 12:13; – in one spirit we were baptized into one body Rom 12:5; – we, though many, are one body in Christ Eph 4:4; – one body, one Spirit, called to one hope Col 3:15; – the peace into which you were called in one body.

And this cannot be found in the isolated, divided protestant churches, the world over…
 
…**Protestants try to follow the Bible instead of the Church because the Bible cannot excommunicate them (or worse!) **

And as I have just illustrated, look where that got all those variegated protestant churches! New protestant churches are popping up all of the time!

Your bible tells you, to take it to the church to settle disputes, not employ private interpretation of sola scriptura:

Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
* And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican. ** * Matthew 18

In the protestant world, all one has to do if a particular protestant community will not “hear thee” is simply take it to another protestant church until “thou has gained a brother.” --totally invalidating this very important command found in your bible.

The bible actually recommends excommunication if Jesus’ One church is ignored: * “but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.” *

**If there is true Christian unity among the bishops of the Church based on the will to follow the Gospel of Christ the angles will lead outsiders who are believers to unity with the Holy Church.
**

Again, look where, following the Gospel of Christ via private (laymen) interpretation, without the proper authority delegated/granted, by Jesus Christ circa 33 AD, to His One Church.

Jesus said He would build His church and that nothing would ever vanquish His Church, the house of the living God, the pillar and foundation of truth —with Jesus as the Savior of His Mystical Body, the CHURCH --that His Holy Spirit would be protecting and guiding His ONE Church in perpetuity “forever.”
God is protecting His Church, Jesus’ Body and that Body is charged with protecting the deposit of faith and that includes Jesus’ bible, codified/canonized by the one and only, C.C.

If Jesus is the Savior of His Body, His Church–the C.C. --DO YOU REALLY THINK IT CAN FAIL? Think about it…

Look forward to your rebuttal…👍
 
Look forward to your rebuttal…👍
Strictly speaking you are correct (in principle). Catholic unity is indeed what Jesus prayed for (John chapter 17). Protestants are outside of catholic unity. Sola scriptura this possibly part of the reason why Protestants are not unified. However if the goal is “achieving” Catholic unity with Protestants my advice, if you don’t mind me saying so, is giving your Protestant friends a blessing to be Protestants! I cannot explain why this will work, but if you try it you will know that it does; I think the reason it works has something to do with love; try it and you’ll see!
… the man-made doctrine of sola scriptura, employing laymen - -private interpretation --is the threat to the unity of Christianity.
Keep just a couple things in mind. Sola scriptura is better than not believing the Bible at all. Concerning outsiders Jesus said after St. John said, “John said to Him, ‘Teacher, we saw someone casting out demons in Your name, and we tried to prevent him because he was not following us.’ But Jesus said, 'Do not hinder him, for there is no one who will perform a miracle in My name, and be able soon afterward to speak evil of Me. ‘For he who is not against us is for us.’” (Mrk 9:38-40).

If you are only willing to try the authoritarian way to convert outsiders into Catholic unity you will not be successful, even though in principle what you say is correct.
 
Strictly speaking you are correct (in principle). Catholic unity is indeed what Jesus prayed for (John chapter 17). Protestants are outside of catholic unity. Sola scriptura this possibly part of the reason why Protestants are not unified. However if the goal is “achieving” Catholic unity with Protestants my advice, if you don’t mind me saying so, is giving your Protestant friends a blessing to be Protestants! I cannot explain why this will work, but if you try it you will know that it does; I think the reason it works has something to do with love; try it and you’ll see!

Keep just a couple things in mind. Sola scriptura is better than not believing the Bible at all. Concerning outsiders Jesus said after St. John said, “John said to Him, ‘Teacher, we saw someone casting out demons in Your name, and we tried to prevent him because he was not following us.’ But Jesus said, 'Do not hinder him, for there is no one who will perform a miracle in My name, and be able soon afterward to speak evil of Me. ‘For he who is not against us is for us.’” (Mrk 9:38-40).

If you are only willing to try the authoritarian way to convert outsiders into Catholic unity you will not be successful, even though in principle what you say is correct.
I, very much, agree.
 
Strictly speaking you are correct (in principle). Catholic unity is indeed what Jesus prayed for (John chapter 17). Protestants are outside of catholic unity. Sola scriptura this possibly part of the reason why Protestants are not unified. However if the goal is “achieving” Catholic unity with Protestants my advice, if you don’t mind me saying so, is giving your Protestant friends a blessing to be Protestants! I cannot explain why this will work, but if you try it you will know that it does; I think the reason it works has something to do with love; try it and you’ll see!

Keep just a couple things in mind. Sola scriptura is better than not believing the Bible at all. Concerning outsiders Jesus said after St. John said, “John said to Him, ‘Teacher, we saw someone casting out demons in Your name, and we tried to prevent him because he was not following us.’ But Jesus said, 'Do not hinder him, for there is no one who will perform a miracle in My name, and be able soon afterward to speak evil of Me. ‘For he who is not against us is for us.’” (Mrk 9:38-40).

If you are only willing to try the authoritarian way to convert outsiders into Catholic unity you will not be successful, even though in principle what you say is correct.
The memories of my non-Catholic days are blessed with Catholics who affirmed the Christ in my heart. Just like Chesterton – I probably would have converted YEARS earlier had it not been for the main obstacle: Catholics!
 
Hi, John VIII,

Let me see if I understand this:
Strictly speaking you are correct (in principle). Catholic unity is indeed what Jesus prayed for (John chapter 17). Protestants are outside of catholic unity. Sola scriptura this possibly part of the reason why Protestants are not unified.
Catholics have valid principles but invalid (or inappropriate) applications?

In a number of the verses previously quoted by others, Christ’s approach, at least as I understand it, was never, “We’ll split the difference!” As a classic example: John 6:22-71 (where Jesus identifies that He is actually giving His Body and Blood for us to eat - AND - if we do not do this we have no life in us. Do you think Catholics should talk about this like it was a reality - or, simply dismiss it with a, “To each his own…” view? There is no second place for creating one’s own ‘Memorial Service’ that is intended to replace Christ giving us His Flesh for the life of the world.
However if the goal is “achieving” Catholic unity with Protestants my advice, if you don’t mind me saying so, is giving your Protestant friends a blessing to be Protestants! I cannot explain why this will work, but if you try it you will know that it does; I think the reason it works has something to do with love; try it and you’ll see!
Coming up with an approach that effectively says - “Let us continue on ignoring the words of Christ - just bless us for our efforts”, is not the instruction from Christ. Your approach essesntially says, “Trust me.” And, while I have no doubt as to your sincerity, you are offerning nothing except your expectation that your approach will work. The Beatles had a song about, Love Is All You Need - but, in reality, rational human beings about to wed (I think that is at least one intrepretation of the song) need more then this if they are going to have food, clothing and shelter.
Keep just a couple things in mind. Sola scriptura is better than not believing the Bible at all.
Actually, I totally disagree with this concept. I can vividly recall my statistics teacher telling us that mis-information was far worse then no information because it sends you off in the wrong direction. At least with no information, you know you don’t have anything and will have to start to look for data. SS truly sends people not only down the wrong road - but, down multiple wrong roads. SS enables anyone to take the Word of God and configure it to their own size. Look at all of the different Protestant views on Baptism. Now, we know Christ’s position (and St. Paul, too!) but, with Protestants the range is from Baptism is truly an ornament and not needed for salvation, going through it would be nice if you did to it is essential. How can this be? Even a casual review will reveal the hand of Devil in this division and chaos?
If you are only willing to try the authoritarian way to convert outsiders into Catholic unity you will not be successful, even though in principle what you say is correct.
From my readings of the previous posts, I do not think anyone has been brutally beating anyone else over the head. There will always be those who try to come up with another answer for 2 + 2 = 4, or rearrange the alphabet, or what-have-you. The argument that the other guys (CC) are ‘authoratarian’ just may be right - in the same sense that a auto driver may think a “Stop” sign is authoratarian (because the driver does not want t stop) The CC really does have the authority: it comes from Christ Himself. The CC set the Canon from which Protestants come up with SS - now, does that make any sense? Not to me. Maybe, not to you either.

We are truly responsible for responding to God with the lights that we have. God does not expect the impossible (that’s His job! 🙂 ) but He does expect us to cooperate with His Grace. Complaining about how that Grace is packaged is counterproductive.

God bless
 
Strictly speaking you are correct (in principle). Catholic unity is indeed what Jesus prayed for (John chapter 17). Protestants are outside of catholic unity. Sola scriptura this possibly part of the reason why Protestants are not unified. However if the goal is “achieving” Catholic unity with Protestants my advice, if you don’t mind me saying so, is giving your Protestant friends a blessing to be Protestants! I cannot explain why this will work, but if you try it you will know that it does; I think the reason it works has something to do with love; try it and you’ll see!

**I couldn’t agree more brother! 👍 I hope all Christians, all people even if they are not Christians make it to Heaven, I just happen to be drawn to the catholic church, after belonging to a Lutheran church for 20 years, because it is just so logical. God is love according to the bible and our goal is to one day be with God, so it only stands to reason to love everyone --Protestants, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, agnostics and atheists --people of all walks of life. 👍
**

Keep just a couple things in mind. Sola scriptura is better than not believing the Bible at all. Concerning outsiders Jesus said after St. John said, “John said to Him, ‘Teacher, we saw someone casting out demons in Your name, and we tried to prevent him because he was not following us.’ But Jesus said, 'Do not hinder him, for there is no one who will perform a miracle in My name, and be able soon afterward to speak evil of Me. ‘For he who is not against us is for us.’” (Mrk 9:38-40).

**Real good point!👍 **

If you are only willing to try the authoritarian way to convert outsiders into Catholic unity you will not be successful, even though in principle what you say is correct.
**It isn’t that that is my only way; I figure if I can use sola scriptura and logic, as opposed to the teachings of the C.C., TO MAKE MY POINTS, PERHAPS PEOPLE WILL SEE THE SAME CHURCH, I SEE, BUILT BY JESUS CHRIST CIRCA 33 AD. If they are happy where they are, more power to them! 👍 **

God bless…
 
Keep just a couple things in mind. Sola scriptura is better than not believing the Bible at all. Concerning outsiders Jesus said after St. John said, “John said to Him, ‘Teacher, we saw someone casting out demons in Your name, and we tried to prevent him because he was not following us.’ But Jesus said, 'Do not hinder him, for there is no one who will perform a miracle in My name, and be able soon afterward to speak evil of Me. ‘For he who is not against us is for us.’” (Mrk 9:38-40).

If you are only willing to try the authoritarian way to convert outsiders into Catholic unity you will not be successful, even though in principle what you say is correct.
If people do not convert to Catholicism inspite of having apprehended the Truth, according to Chesterton it is pride that stops them.

It is very hard to reliquish the strangle hold of the I/Me/Myself. A mindset so very much entrenched in SF and SS.

The only authority is Christ. And by His authority he built a church.

Peter Kreft put it very well in his conversion story:

" I was hauled aboard not by those Catholics who try to “sell” the church by conforming it to the spirit of the times by saying Catholics are just like everyone else, but by those who joyfully held out the ancient and orthodox faith in all its fullness and prophetic challenge to the world. The minimalists, who reduce miracles to myths, dogmas to opinions, laws to values, and the Body of Christ to a psycho-social club, have always elicited wrath, pity, or boredom from me "
 
Regarding the (peter aka kepha) --petros petra controversy, what do you think Jesus actually said when He spoke the words below; keeping in mind that Jesus was speaking in the Aramaic tongue, not the Greek. (St. Paul uses the original Aramaic “Cephas”–rock, which has no gender; we should expect no less in the Greek language)

“…And so I say to you, you are Peter, (kepha) and upon this rock (kepha) I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it.”
  1. lithos lee’-thos apparently a primary word; a stone (literally or figuratively):–(mill-, stumbling-)a stone
  2. of small stones
  3. of building stones stone.
  4. Petros pet’-ros apparently a primary word; a (piece of) rock (larger than 3037);** as a name, Petrus, an apostle:–Peter, rock.** Noun Masculine Compare 2786.
**If the writers of the N.T. wanted to call Simon, renamed kepha (Aramaic), a small insignificant stone, they would have used the Greek word lithos—not petros. ** Why didn’t Jesus just use the Aramaic word “evna”, which means "a small stone, when He rename Simon? Apart from references to Simon aka Peter, the word “petros” never appears anywhere in the Bible. The New Testament refers to “a stone” in dozens of passages and many different contexts. Yet these passages never use the Greek “petros”. Instead, they use “lithos”, which is the common Greek word for “a stone”.

Why would Jesus go to the trouble of giving Simon a proper name which means piece of rock, an insignificant stone; what would be the point? It would almost be an insult to the man, Jesus said: “feed my lambs, tend my sheep, and feed my sheep!” If Jesus intended on renaming Simon --Rock, the context makes perfect sense. Jesus could build His Church on a large metaphorical Rock. Metaphorically speaking, an insignificant stone in lieu of Rock, just doesn’t make sense. There is no certainty of completion, if Jesus’ Church is metaphorically built on a small insignificant stone! Furthermore, if Jesus is saying that His Church was to be built on Him, why the need for a name change to begin with?

But don’t begin until you count the cost. For who would begin construction of a building without first calculating the cost to see if there is enough money to finish it? Otherwise, you might complete only the foundation before running out of money, and then everyone would laugh at you. They would say, ‘There’s the person who started that building and couldn’t afford to finish it!’ Luke 14

Jesus’ Apostolic Church was built on SOLID ROCK!!!
  1. petra pet’-ra ** feminine of the same as 4074**; a (mass of) rock (literally or figuratively):–rock.
The Greek writers wanted to continue to call Simon by his new proper name kepha, while retaining the masculine form, ergo petros in lieu of petra, a feminine form.
  1. Kephas kay-fas’ of Chaldee origin (compare 3710); the Rock; Cephas (i.e. Kepha), **a surname of Peter:–Cephas. **
The Aramaic word for “rock” is kepha (feminine) OR kephas (masculine)
Cephas (Κηφας)

Jesus conferred on Simon – the name kepha/kephas, and “Cephas” is a transliteration into the phonetically adaptable Greek.

John 1:42

He brought him to Jesus. Jesus looked at him and said, “You are Simon son of John, you shall be called Cephas”, which is translated ‘Peter’.

1 Corinthians 1:12

But I say that each of you says “I am of Paul”, or “I am of Apollos”, or “I am of Cephas”, or “I am of Christ”.

1Co 3:22

Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are yours;

1Co 9:5

Have we not power to lead about a sister, a wife, as well as other apostles, and as the brethren of the Lord, and Cephas?

1Co 15:5

And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:

Ga 2:9
Code:
And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.
Galatians 1:18

Then after three years I did go up to Jerusalem to visit Cephas and stayed with him for fifteen days…

In these passages, ‘Cephas’ is given as the nickname of the apostle better known as Simon Peter. The Greek word is transliterated Κηφᾶς (Kēphâs). This totally invalidates the whole petra/petros controversy.

The apostle’s given nameis Simon, and he is given the Aramaic nickname, kêfâ, meaning ‘rock’. The final sigma (s) is added in Greek to make the name masculine rather than feminine. That the meaning of the name (Rock) was more important than the name itself is evidenced by the universal acceptance of the Greek translation, Πέτρος (Petros).

So to sum up, Jesus gave Simon the name “Kepha”. “Kepha” is rendered in Greek as “Cephas” and appears many times in this form, as I have illustrated throughout the New Testament. However, it is not a Greek word and therefore had no meaning to a Greek-speaking audience. Therefore, Simon also became known as “Petros”. “Petros” is the masculine form of the Greek feminine noun “petra”, meaning “rock”. The word Peter/Petros is used over 160 times in the N.T.

Do you really think the N.T. writers viewed Simon (renamed Peter/Petros) as an insignificant leader of the fledgling Apostolic Church?
 
Non-Catholics usually assert that “this rock” of verse 18 refers to Christ, or to Peter’s profession of faith. However this position is difficult to defend, on several grounds.

Grammatical evidence…

First, according to the rules of grammar, the phrase, “this rock” relates to the closest noun: Peter’s name -unless the text makes readily apparent that an exceptional usage is present. The verse in question gives no such indication, but rather is plain, simple and direct. Peter’s profession of faith, (“Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.”) is two verses earlier, remote by comparison with Peter’s name, which is present in the clause adjacent “this Rock”. To interpret “petra” as referring to Christ or to Peter’s profession of faith requires grammatical gymnastics that are difficult to justify in light of the simplicity of Jesus’ point-blank declaration. Here is an illustration:

Question:
Suppose you, a design engineer, were approached by your manager who pointed at you in the presence of witnesses and boldly declared, “You are Engineer Extraordinaire, and on this Engineer I will build my next design project.” How would you interpret your manager’s statement?

Answer 1:
“Hooray, now I’m called Engineer Extraordinaire, and I am being appointed to a key role in the next design project!” Or would you think…

Answer 2:
“Great, now I’m Engineer Extraordinaire. But God, the Creator, really is the designer of everything, so I guess God is being placed in charge of the next project.”

Answer 1 is a natural, sensible interpretation of the manager’s simple statement. Answer 2 is silly for two reasons: 1) it fails to recognize that nothing in the statement indicates that it refers to a third party. The least complicated way of interpreting the sentence leads directly to a straightforward meaning -that the engineer receiving the recognition is the one being appointed to the new task; 2)** Answer 2 is silly also because of its irrelevant misapplication of the obvious fact that all creative power ultimately comes from God.** The manager’s statement does not challenge God’s status as Creator, because God can manifest His power and authority in any person He chooses.

If Matthew had understood Jesus to mean that Peter was only a stone compared to the Rock of Christ, why did he translate the saying in such a way that it could be easily misunderstood? Why fail to make this “little stone” versus “immovable rock” distinction clear? Why did he not translate Peter’s name “Kepha” into the Greek word “lithos,” which does not derive from “petra”? Lithos indicates “a stone”, and occurs numerous times throughout the New Testament! -Reason? Because Matthew witnessed Peter’s profession of faith, heard the declaration of Jesus to Peter, and was perfectly clear on the point that Jesus was equating Kepha with kepha, and appointing Peter to be the prime overseer of the Church after Jesus would return to the Father.

Am I wrong?..
 
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