You seem to be repeating yourself, are you saying that the original Greek Septuagint did not contain those books?
Josephus also rejected Jesus as the Messiah.
Repeating yourself is not an answer.
"Even though Luther was brilliant in his theology, I just had to wonder if any of it was due to the psychological problems he suffered from. Luther lived an immoral and unprincipled life. In “Table Talks” Luther got drunk one night and told some of his drinking buddies that Jesus must have been an adulterer because even He could not resist temptations of the flesh. He went on to claim that Jesus had an affair with Mary Magdalene, Mary and Martha of Bethany, and the Samaritan woman at the well. In Luther’s own words in a “Spiritual Counseling” letter to Jerome Weimer: “[t]he whole Decalogue must go! … Sin strongly; believe more strongly.” --Arthur Sippo, MD, MPH
So why do you identify yourself as Lutheran? You sound AWE fully Catholic to me!
Yeah I know.So why do you identify yourself as Lutheran? You sound AWE fully Catholic to me!
I’m married to a Catholic and her whole family is Catholic, and I agreed to allow our children (none yet) to be raised Catholic. It would be irresponsible for me not to investigate the Catholic faith when all my inlaws are, as well as my wife.
I have heard some stories here and there, but I know nothing to say I know anything in regards to Luther’s mental state. He did go off the deep end in about every way. He didn’t start off that way, but with his growing “power” and political support, he just changed. I guess the old saying is true, “Not everyone can handle the power they are given with grace.” (Something about handling power, so I just made that one up)
I am not that sure that Luther was that brilliant in his theology. He never seemed to be any more brilliant than anyone else in his time. It is just that he gained power and influence and everyone just thought he was “awesome”.
I haven’t read too much on Luther, but I was under the impression that early on, he was pretty “normal”. Again, it was later when his influence grew that he started living an immoral and unprincipled life.
“Table Talks” sounds interesting. How would Luther know any such thing about Jesus having affairs? Luther was mortal. He seemed to forget that he was merely mortal and Jesus was divine when he started comparing himself to Jesus.
I don’t believe Martin Luther was a hero. He began a revolt that over the last 500 years, has separated millions of people from Jesus’ One Church and Jesus’ One Truth. He was just a man who declared something. He must have been somewhat evangelical. Today, you see how evangelicals can draw you in. Back then, that must have been intriguing and he sold it very well.
You have to know that it was a combination of everything that he was, manic, alchololic, evangelical, powerful, knowledgable, that influenced everyone around him. I am sure his mental state and his alchololism influenced a lot in his life.
I don’t know, I just trust and believe that with my knowledge of my faith, the fact that Catholocism has NEVER changed over the last 2000 years, even in the face of adversity, continues to teach to this very day, Jesus’ teachings and following Jesus’ Sacred Tradition. It also give me great peace to know that the Catholic Church was the only Church in existance then and that it was baptized Catholics, guided by the Holy Spirit, who wrote the Bible. We knew then, we know now, the Truth.
I did not coin the word tautology. It is a standard rhetorical term meaning needless repetition.
Whatever Luther’s personal problems/illnesses/struggles may have been, he WAS responding to serious abuses in the Church. And he WAS brilliant. His volatility and instability, his apparent OCD, were human flaws that cascaded into a catastrophe.Yeah I know.
I come out of a Presbyterian background (raised Pres for 26 years) and after I started dating my wife, I realized the beauty of the mass after I attended a couple of times with her.
It made me realize that Presbyterian worship is kind of like a “sermon sandwich.” A sermon sandwich is called that b/c it’s a sermon sandwiched between 2 hymns :dancing: hehe.
I converted to Lutheranism b/c I saw the beauty of liturgy but wanted to remain Protestant, and conservative at that. Lately, through reading some of the discussions on CA without my “Protestant glasses” on, has made some of my opinions about the Catholic faith change. So here I am, praying for guidance for the Lord to lead me wherever He may take me… Even into the RCC, if it be His will.
Just keep studying 5pint, with your willingness to follow the truth (Jesus) all the way (Jesus) to the light (the Word of God, Jesus) we will someday be welcoming you home. Your future children will be so blessed to be raised by a unified mom and dad. This studying you are doing is the best birthday present you will ever give them. I am so impressed. You da man!!!
This is very funny. I play in the bell choir at the Presbyterian church down the street from the Catholic Church I attend. Honestly, the music is beautiful and my daughter’s best friend is Presbyterian and she first invited my daughter to play in the choir and after a couple of years and an out of state vacation with the Pastor and his wife and several of the other “ringers,” I joined the choir as well. The people are wonderful. Very kind, very loving, down to earth, just great people. And their service is like a sandwhich. Just like 5pint describes here.
PC Master, you are correct. Surprised?
Yes it somewhat does. What’s startling to know is that when I first entered the Lutheran church… I absorbed all it taught, as well as the Liturgy and sacraments (I counted 3, to be exact). I’ve been to private confession before with our pastor, but it lacked the “personal” aspect of confession I thought it would have.
Do you think you might want to start RCIA to see how catholicism fits?Yes it somewhat does. What’s startling to know is that when I first entered the Lutheran church… I absorbed all it taught, as well as the Liturgy and sacraments (I counted 3, to be exact). I’ve been to private confession before with our pastor, but it lacked the “personal” aspect of confession I thought it would have.
During confession, I walked in and sat waiting for the pastor to get ready, and then he hands me the Lutheran Service Hymnal.
I asked what it was for, and he said that we had to read out of it for confession, which I didn’t like. I thought confession was going to be me pouring out my soul to the pastor, so he could give me comfort in the words of absolution “my son… your sins are forgiven.” It felt very vain, and afterward I still felt the despair I had before I walked in with.
We hold: Baptism, the Holy Eucharist, and confession/absolution, in the LCMS. Even saying all this, the LCMS is bracing itself for another “schism.” On one side, you have people who want a more contemporary service (praise band, casual pastor, etc…) and others, like me, who desire a more traditional service (genuflection, confession/absolution, Holy Eucharist, etc…). I’m thinking really hard about jumping ship with the whole Lutheranism thing.
Are your really that comfortable with the Mary, Papacy, Purgatory issues?Yes it somewhat does. What’s startling to know is that when I first entered the Lutheran church… I absorbed all it taught, as well as the Liturgy and sacraments (I counted 3, to be exact). I’ve been to private confession before with our pastor, but it lacked the “personal” aspect of confession I thought it would have.
During confession, I walked in and sat waiting for the pastor to get ready, and then he hands me the Lutheran Service Hymnal.
I asked what it was for, and he said that we had to read out of it for confession, which I didn’t like. I thought confession was going to be me pouring out my soul to the pastor, so he could give me comfort in the words of absolution “my son… your sins are forgiven.” It felt very vain, and afterward I still felt the despair I had before I walked in with.
We hold: Baptism, the Holy Eucharist, and confession/absolution, in the LCMS. Even saying all this, the LCMS is bracing itself for another “schism.” On one side, you have people who want a more contemporary service (praise band, casual pastor, etc…) and others, like me, who desire a more traditional service (genuflection, confession/absolution, Holy Eucharist, etc…). I’m thinking really hard about jumping ship with the whole Lutheranism thing.
Well, I still have a decent relationship with my parents, unless you talk theology with them. My father is strictly a 5 point Calvinist, which I don’t agree with, which is one of the reasons why I left (I used to be a 5 point Calvinist, then I became a 5 PINT Lutheran, :dancing: lol!).
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